The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    In this interview from 2012, in Songwriter Interviews ...
    No link but that was enough to google this - thanks.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    A bunch?

    Couldn't resist posting this, my all-time favorite Jay Graydon "wire-choir" solo, from Manhattan Transfer's "Twilight Tone." Solo starts at 2:39; for some reason the URL insists on playing from the top of the tune.

    .

    And here's a chart of the first 8 bars posted by Jay himself.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I heard that interview. If we take this dichotomy to heart, then I am left with this: I much prefer Donald's solo records to Walter's, but none of Donald's albums is known for its killer guitar solos... If Steely Dan without Walter would have meant no (or very few) killer guitar solos, well, that would suck, no? Even if Walter didn't play them, the guitar-focus of the early Dan records was not Donald's thing, right? And for those records, the guitar-focus was a very big thing!
    Indeed.

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I heard that interview. If we take this dichotomy to heart, then I am left with this: I much prefer Donald's solo records to Walter's, but none of Donald's albums is known for its killer guitar solos... If Steely Dan without Walter would have meant no (or very few) killer guitar solos, well, that would suck, no? Even if Walter didn't play them, the guitar-focus of the early Dan records was not Donald's thing, right? And for those records, the guitar-focus was a very big thing!
    Yeah, I agree. Walter brought his rock conception to the table, something Fagen lacked. Like I said before, Walter was a wiz in the studio, and he got what he wanted out of those rhythm sections and guitarists.
    His music production skills were incredible! If you take a record that had nothing to do with Fagen, and that WB didn't write any of the material, he could work wonders.
    A good example was the album he produced by the band Sneaker (named in honor of 'Bad Sneakers'). They had one great song, and the rest of their stuff was just okay, but Walter made them sound like a million dollars.

    Fagen and Becker were intensely close friends from the time they met at Bard, and I don't think Fagen would've gotten very far in the biz without WB's help. Fagen had already tried to make it in LA (he stayed in the same communal living situation that Louden Wainwright did), and he got nowhere, so he went to Bard, where he was a Lit. major, and met WB.
    After DF graduated, they got that gig with Jay and the Americans, and then a songwriting gig where they met Katz, and the rest is history.

  6. #55

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    On the auction: Some of those prices aren't above general used market value. Some of the Sadowsky strats for instance. I wonder whether they've priced below expected bidding on purpose or if the auction house truly believe that the lesser known items won't carry an extra celebrity owner price?

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Average Joe
    On the auction: Some of those prices aren't above general used market value. Some of the Sadowsky strats for instance. I wonder whether they've priced below expected bidding on purpose or if the auction house truly believe that the lesser known items won't carry an extra celebrity owner price?
    I think the auction house is just uneducated. It’s hard to estimate some of these boutique items as they rarely come up for sale. You can’t just look up past sales. You would have had to paid attention to the market for years.

    There are going to be many deals to be had. It happens when supply is way higher than demand (1000 items, most items above $1k). How many people are going to want a Swart amp, have the dough, know about the auction, and either are willing to bid ahead of time or remember to logon during the live auction? And there will be 8 of them available within a 10 minute span. 4 people may fight over the 2nd one while nobody fights for the 4th one.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    I think the auction house is just uneducated. It’s hard to estimate some of these boutique items as they rarely come up for sale. You can’t just look up past sales. You would have had to paid attention to the market for years.
    That is what they do. Auction houses watch the market. They also know that high estimates deter potential bidders. They want to avoid unsold lots and to encourage the bargain hunters, who find themselves spending more than they intended in the the heat of the moment. An auction that exceeds expected returns is declared a success, which encourages other owners to put their possessions up for auction.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim
    Becker's solo albums are pretty sad, songwriting-wise.
    I don't want to argue about them in whole but I think this would not sound at all out of place on a Steely Dan record. (Walter's vocals being so unilke Donald's are an issue...)

    I think this sounds a lot more like Steely Dan than some of Fagen's solo work. (For the record, I prefer Fagen's "Kamakiriad" to some Steely Dan albums. I even prefer it to "Nightfly" though the latter is the more adventurous record.) But if you think "this is Walter without Fagen," well, this is pretty damn good, and I think if Fagen sang it, it would be fantastic! ;o)


  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    That is what they do. Auction houses watch the market.
    Your understanding of 'the market' must limited or you think every person has infinite time for work.

    Simply not feasible to keep an eye on 'the market' when they sell such a wide breadth of items. People who track just a small number of items will tell you how time consuming it is.

    Since you wrote in such certainty - please tell me what they look at to determine their guitar gear estimates? I'm ready to tell you why your view is limited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    They also know that high estimates deter potential bidders. They want to avoid unsold lots and to encourage the bargain hunters, who find themselves spending more than they intended in the the heat of the moment. An auction that exceeds expected returns is declared a success, which encourages other owners to put their possessions up for auction.
    So why are some of the estimates correct? Why aren't they all low? There are definitely auctions that are estimated in the valid range.

    On the flip side, the auction house's estimate sets perceived value.

    1) if the bids start going near/over the low estimate, people could think they are over-paying and stop bidding

    2) if the auction house puts a high estimate on something that has no existing market outside the auction (in this example, Walter Becker owned gear) - a bidder may make a bid thinking they can get a steal on a high value item. For example, if the auction house puts a $10k premium on a concert-played guitar (something that has very subjective value), a bidder may put in a bid for a $5k premium over normal price thinking he/she won't win it as an "expert", the auction house, has put a $10k premium. If the auction house doesn't tout a premium, then buyers may not.

    It's not a one way street.

  11. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I don't want to argue about them in whole but I think this would not sound at all out of place on a Steely Dan record. (Walter's vocals being so unilke Donald's are an issue...)

    I think this sounds a lot more like Steely Dan than some of Fagen's solo work. (For the record, I prefer Fagen's "Kamakiriad" to some Steely Dan albums. I even prefer it to "Nightfly" though the latter is the more adventurous record.) But if you think "this is Walter without Fagen," well, this is pretty damn good, and I think if Fagen sang it, it would be fantastic! ;o)

    Yeah, that would've been great if Fagen sang it.I think WB's voice is what turns me off. Great Chris Potter on that. I only listened to a few songs on Circus Money, and got turned off by what I heard. I checked out some other things, and at least it's not as noisy and tasteless as his first sol album.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeyNow
    Your understanding of 'the market' must limited or you think every person has infinite time for work.

    Simply not feasible to keep an eye on 'the market' when they sell such a wide breadth of items. People who track just a small number of items will tell you how time consuming it is.

    Since you wrote in such certainty - please tell me what they look at to determine their guitar gear estimates? I'm ready to tell you why your view is limited.



    So why are some of the estimates correct? Why aren't they all low? There are definitely auctions that are estimated in the valid range.

    On the flip side, the auction house's estimate sets perceived value.

    1) if the bids start going near/over the low estimate, people could think they are over-paying and stop bidding

    2) if the auction house puts a high estimate on something that has no existing market outside the auction (in this example, Walter Becker owned gear) - a bidder may make a bid thinking they can get a steal on a high value item. For example, if the auction house puts a $10k premium on a concert-played guitar (something that has very subjective value), a bidder may put in a bid for a $5k premium over normal price thinking he/she won't win it as an "expert", the auction house, has put a $10k premium. If the auction house doesn't tout a premium, then buyers may not.

    It's not a one way street.
    They don't sell guitars. They sell memorabilia. They sold Marilyn Munroe's gown for $4.8 million. They sold Ringo's drum kit for $2.1 million. They sold Neil Young's Buick Roadmaster for $400,000. If you want a vintage guitar, you go to somebody like George Gruhn in Nashville or Fat Rick in London, who will sell you a really good old guitar. If you want something that belonged to someone famous, you go to Julien's Auctions.This time they are selling Becker's collection, confident that more than enough wealthy Steely Dan fans will want to buy something.

    I used to work in the art world, so I know a little about auctions. I know that auction houses, to keep interest alive during a long auction, will offer offer lots with low estimates; they know these items eventually will be knocked down at a far higher price, which creates excitement: an auction is a performance. Excitement encourages other bidders to step up; people want to buy, to be part of the action. The low estimate will have attracted bidders before the auction; they get swept up in the excitement and pay more than they would. The estimate doesn't matter to the auction house: it is not a promise. It only becomes a liability when it is too high. Other estimates will be more realistic, because they don't want to look ridiculous.

    If you want an example of a low estimate, look at Lot 252: a 1980 Gibson L6-S, estimated at $500-700. I watch the L6-S market, and I know they sell for about $1800. The auction house could easily find that out by looking on Reverb. I am sure they don't really believe that a guitar owned by Walter Becker would sell for so much less than an equivalent that belonged to Walter Nobody.

    They know what they are doing. Auction houses are like casinos. They don't win all the time, but they win more often than their customers. Sometimes, lots go for just over the reserve; or they don't go. But most times, they will go, at a good price.

    Anyway, the auction is on 18th and 19th October. We will find out then whether the auction house got it right.







  13. #62

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    Low estimates likely also indicate that Julien's is trying to liquidate a lot of gear in a short amount of time, not to hold on to it for however long it takes to command premium price. As Litterick has suggested, they just have to work percentages in their favor; some people will get a bargain and some will pay too much. That's the nature of an auction.

    I would not be surprised if a lot of this stuff turns up on eBay - and stays there for a long time - in coming months. Undoubtedly the auction will attract people who are willing to sit on an investment long enough to make a profit. And people who will try to resell for too much regardless of whether they paid too much. eBay and Reverb are full of overpriced guitars right now.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    And people who will try to resell for too much regardless of whether they paid too much. eBay and Reverb are full of overpriced guitars right now.
    You can feel their pain in the descriptions. It is the inevitable result of the GAS Becker identified in his essay. Men have too much kit, not enough money and a longing for more kit. But the 2011 Les Paul, which the guitar shop owner said was a modern classic when it was new, turns out to be just another old guitar.

  15. #64

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    On GAS, maybe it's because I have limited practice time due to a very busy non-music career, but it stresses me out to have any instruments that I don't play with some regularity - like at least every couple of days. I definitely seem to experience my most productive practice periods when I am just focused on one guitar. Usually that's my laminate 16 x 3 archtop - call this my jazzbox. When my next jazzbox arrives in 2020 and if I decide to keep my current jazzbox, the current jazzbox will become my office guitar. Having two "no. 1 guitars" under one roof would drive me crazy!

  16. #65

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    An article about the auction in Forbes online, of all places. Brief and shallow, a lot about the benjamins cuz its Forbes, but some tidbits and photos, just fyi. Guitar Collection of Steely Dan’s Walter Becker Rocks The Auction Block

  17. #66

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    I saw the hardcover, full color and glossy papered book of the upcoming auction. That's right, a book. It was a beautiful catalog of every instrument and piece of equipment in the auction. I didn't know they did something like that. Each piece has a beautiful picture, a description and estimate of its value. After talking with the guys who did the appraisal and looking thru the book I'm looking forward to viewing the auction.

  18. #67

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    The Executive Director of Julien's Auctions is on the radio. They are selling Kurt Cobain's cardigan, unwashed. Their estimate is $500,000. The auction will be at The Hard Rock Café in New York City.

  19. #68

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    I'm an amp junkie and was fascinated by the catalog. General my thinking on amps is based on their categories, of which there are three: Have One, Had one, and Want One. I was a little surprised at how many fit in multiple categories!

  20. #69

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    What a ride!
    I bid on all sorts of things of interest to me, in the hopes that at least some of it would fly under the radar, given the size of the collection.
    No such luck!
    I suspect the estate of Walter Becker is quite pleased with the results of the auction.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    What a ride!I bid on all sorts of things of interest to me, in the hopes that at least some of it would fly under the radar, given the size of the collection. No such luck!I suspect the estate of Walter Becker is quite pleased with the results of the auction.
    I forgot it was today. Had a good tip regarding the well serviced amps. Woulda liked to bid on a couple. Oh well. Sounds like I didn't miss any "deals".

  22. #71

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    A wild ride indeed. Boy did Julien's move some merchandise today! Missed out on one item that I had been lusting after for days. Actually had it for about 10 seconds before getting outbid at the end. I went $200 over my limit but ultimately the lack of info about the condition of the amp caused me to not go all in. When you factor in the 25% Buyer's Premium, the 3% Online Service Fee, the 7.25% CA state tax, plus shipping and insurance, I'm not sure how many deals were to be had. I hope someone here was the lucky winner. Cheers.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by losaltosjoe
    A wild ride indeed. ..When you factor in the 25% Buyer's Premium, the 3% Online Service Fee, the 7.25% CA state tax, plus shipping and insurance, I'm not sure how many deals were to be had....
    I had a live spreadsheet open with all of that as well as other cost factors, so I could see my landed price. Looks like the association with Becker commanded a premium on quite a few items. I think that, from the point of view of the Becker estate, as well as Julien's, this was a very well-conducted auction.
    I'll go through the whole list at some point when I have insomnia, but there were certainly no deals on anything that interested me. :^(
    Last edited by Hammertone; 10-18-2019 at 09:00 PM.

  24. #73

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    I also watched up to lot 360 - no bargains. Prices on many guitars and amps sold “at” or over market value before factoring in the buyers premium and taxes.

    I was on the phone with Juliens yesterday going over several guitars - but only a few were worth the realized price. What the auction did reveal is that both Gibson and Martin continue to hold their value.

    I watched on my iPhone - and the auction was conducted beautifully with excellent video / audio - providing a great off- site experience.

    I must say - the complimentary catalog I received was actually a very heavy high quality coffee table hard covered book.

    First class representation and a very helpful accommodating staff.

  25. #74

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    I didn't bid but was waching the 1940 Gibson L-5P.
    It sat @ $4500 but jumped to 12.8K @ the finish. Not the cleanest example and when you figure in the fees, not the best deal in the end.

  26. #75

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    I had my eye on the Froggy Bottom H12 which went for $5,120.
    But add the buyer's premium, online fee, shipping, Canadian dollar, and Canadian tax and fees and that guitar is $10643.00 CDN. Ouch
    I can buy equivalent high end guitars by Santa Cruz, etc. here for less.