The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #201

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    Okay guys, confession time. I got a Tone Master Twin Reverb about 2 weeks ago. Been playing it every day for 2 weeks.

    This is one seriously amazing amp. I will do a NAD post pretty soon. I wanted to log a lot of time on the amp first. I will also try to do a clip to post here.

    LOVE this amp. XLR out emulating an SM57 is absolutely perfect. No need to mic the cab anymore. Attenuation works. Can crank it to about 8 on the front, set the output to a lower power on the back, and you get what you want at a volume that won't bring the police.

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  3. #202

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    Both the TMTR and the JC-120 list for $USD 1,000 and the JC-120 is 1970's technology -- i think they've covered their R&D on that amp.

  4. #203

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    I A/B/C'd the TMDR against a DRRI and a PRRI (because it was right there) in the very nice demo room of one of my local shops. To me it did not sound or feel exactly like a tube amp, but rather like an excellent emulation of a tube amp. The tube amps felt mechanical and immediate, the TMDR felt ever-so-slightly removed. But the TMDR sounded beautiful - I preferred its tone to the DRRI.

    I am in the market for a new amp and I need something that sounds like a classic Fender but that can be attenuated and DI'd to work in a live situation with other instruments (I do a one man band thing with a looper and mixer). I am also used to tube amps. The Princeton Recording amp was the last product that seemed built for my needs, but they are problematic for various reasons.

    So for me this product aspires to tick every box, and it does with the sole exception of the fact that it feels slightly digital in the same way that my (excellent) Korg SV-1 feels digital compared to my Rhodes and Wurli. For me the relative convenience of my SV-1 vastly outweighs the "uncanny valley" aspect of its sound reproduction. The choice to buy the TMDR would be, for me, a choice to go in the same direction with my amp, but I'm finding it a difficult choice.

    Worth noting that a lot of other (much more experienced) players on other boards have stated that in a band context they can perceive no difference between playing a TM amp and its tube equivalent, so it may be that outside of the specific context in which I was testing the amps, which was similar to what you'd find in a studio setting, the difference doesn't matter.

  5. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    . Can crank it to about 8 on the front, set the output to a lower power on the back, and you get what you want at a volume that won't bring the police.
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?

  6. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?
    Well I do it with the attenuator on the back set to maybe 12 Watts. I did open her up briefly and when I woke up later staring up at the sky (the roof was somehow gone) I had no memory of what had happened.

  7. #206
    I have to say I'm a bit skeptical when people say they can tell the non-tube amp after comparing HIGH QUALITY tube emulations and tube amps in non-blind folded contexts.
    It was posted in some forum that in one of the GC stores they removed the tone master logo and asked customer the compared tone masters and real tube versions. People guessed the TM's tubes because they sounded better. Of course you can A/B and tell which one you enjoy more. But identifying the real tube one with any confidence seems to require having a prior knowledge of which one was which in the first place
    I think these TM's are a great platform to do blind folded comparisons as they are designed to sound the same as the tube counter parts. I bet we'll see a whole bunch of blind fold challenge videos with these amps in the near future.

  8. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I have to say I'm a bit skeptical when people say they can tell the non-tube amp after comparing HIGH QUALITY tube emulations and tube amps in non-blind folded contexts.
    It was posted in some forum that in one of the GC stores they removed the tone master logo and asked customer the compared tone masters and real tube versions. People guessed the TM's tubes because they sounded better. Of course you can A/B and tell which one you enjoy more. But identifying the real tube one with any confidence seems to require having a prior knowledge of which one was which in the first place
    I think these TM's are a great platform to do blind folded comparisons as they are designed to sound the same as the tube counter parts. I bet we'll see a whole bunch of blind fold challenge videos with these amps in the near future.
    The idea that the TM amps are indistinguishable from their tube counterparts is central to the way Fender is marketing them. There are a number of "blind" comparison videos up already. I can only speak for myself - to me the difference in the room was obvious, and it was not the same as the tonal difference between any two tube amps, it was a difference in kind, if that makes sense. A lot of people who are more experienced than I, and who I can only assume have more refined ears, have said otherwise. I find this really interesting.

  9. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?
    I thought he was known for using a Dual Showman (even louder)?. Mike Bloomfield played through cranked Twins in his LP period. The live stuff with Al Kooper is probably the best example of someone demonstrating the full range of a Twin.A friend I've been playing with in both rock and jazz situations for decades has a twin. Back in the day, I had a brown Pro with a D130, and we would both be cranked up. It was nuts. Now we both use Princetons on maybe 3.

  10. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by conchmusic
    I A/B/C'd the TMDR against a DRRI and a PRRI (because it was right there) in the very nice demo room of one of my local shops. To me it did not sound or feel exactly like a tube amp, but rather like an excellent emulation of a tube amp. The tube amps felt mechanical and immediate, the TMDR felt ever-so-slightly removed. But the TMDR sounded beautiful - I preferred its tone to the DRRI.I am in the market for a new amp and I need something that sounds like a classic Fender but that can be attenuated and DI'd to work in a live situation with other instruments (I do a one man band thing with a looper and mixer). I am also used to tube amps. The Princeton Recording amp was the last product that seemed built for my needs, but they are problematic for various reasons.So for me this product aspires to tick every box, and it does with the sole exception of the fact that it feels slightly digital in the same way that my (excellent) Korg SV-1 feels digital compared to my Rhodes and Wurli. For me the relative convenience of my SV-1 vastly outweighs the "uncanny valley" aspect of its sound reproduction. The choice to buy the TMDR would be, for me, a choice to go in the same direction with my amp, but I'm finding it a difficult choice. Worth noting that a lot of other (much more experienced) players on other boards have stated that in a band context they can perceive no difference between playing a TM amp and its tube equivalent, so it may be that outside of the specific context in which I was testing the amps, which was similar to what you'd find in a studio setting, the difference doesn't matter.
    My feeling is that it responded differently - seemed easier to play.

  11. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    I thought he was known for using a Dual Showman (even louder)?
    Correct, but he started with the TR and kept destroying the early ones until Leo designed the DS for him. Dick played right up until the end, but the DS was discontinued in 1993, so I'm sure you know what Fender amp he switched to....

  12. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Correct, but he started with the TR and kept destroying the early ones until Leo designed the DS for him. Dick played right up until the end, but the DS was discontinued in 1993, so I'm sure you know what Fender amp he switched to....
    Aw, I'm sure Dale had plenty of DS's "leftover" to use for the rest of his life... just like Brian Setzer still has plenty of 6G6-B blonde Bassmans and Roland 301's to last HIM the rest of his life....

  13. #212

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    Here's one of Dick's rig set ups on display at Arizona's Musical Instrument Museum. I remember standing staring at it for a very long time like it was a holy shrine.


  14. #213

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    All I can say is both Tonemaster versions sounded great! And for me not dealing with the issues associated with their tube counterpart versions is a huge plus.
    From no more tubes going bad, wall voltage,heavy weight,etc.
    I'm so happy to be done with tube amps!

    And I've owned all of them from Fender,Marshall,Dumble,Boogie,etc.

  15. #214
    A blind fold test:

  16. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?
    I once ran a '65 Twin Reissue close to 10. I used to play in a seriously loud latin band. This was at an outdoor gig, no sound reinforcement for guitar.
    It was an incredible sound. Generally I don't like playing loud, but that was fun. I could get controlled microphonic feedback that meant I could hold onto notes for hours if I wanted. This was with my 1973 Les Paul Recording of all instruments. Terry Kath of the band Chicago would approve! I'm surprised I didn't cause an earthquake or tsunami.

  17. #216

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    At my local GC, I was told they'd be in within the next week.

    We shall see.

  18. #217

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    Seen a lot more tube Fender Twin's on Craiglist than I've seen before.

  19. #218

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    I have been comparing the TMTR with the PRRI since I have them, at the moment, side by side in the same room. They sound quite different, both great, but different. I have not been able, though to record that difference using my best recording techniques.

    Then I hit on a method, crude but effective: just use my phone. So I played the identical solo through each and recorded them with my iPhone to capture the "in the room" sound. It was a little hard because to equalize the volume I had to tone down the TMTR, so I set the attenuator on 12W which is pretty close to the PRRI. Reverb about the same on each. I don't switch back and forth, just Amp 1 and then Amp 2.

    Here's the result. The recording isn't the greatest, but it actually does capture the differences between the two amps "in the room." I have not ID'd which is which to put the focus not on which is better, or which is tubes, but simply: how would you describe (not necessarily judge) the differences in tone? Of course, you're free to comment on anything you want, but I'd love to refine my ability to characterize different tones.

    I used the L5ces because it seems to me to reflect amp differences the most of any guitar I own.


  20. #219

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    I think the real test for most of us would be on a loud gig. But there is definitely a difference in the 2. But if recording is the goal,I wouldn't even use a miked amplifier.

    I think we are getting almost to bit picky about our gear. After a certain point it's really just wasted money and energy. It should be more focused on actual playing and music.

  21. #220

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    Second amp sounds much more focused in the upper mids—less pleasant to my ear. I preferred the warmth of the lower mids of the first amp.

  22. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    I think the real test for most of us would be on a loud gig. But there is definitely a difference in the 2. But if recording is the goal,I wouldn't even use a miked amplifier.

    I think we are getting almost to bit picky about our gear. After a certain point it's really just wasted money and energy. It should be more focused on actual playing and music.
    100%. true. I got a Tone Masters Deluxe Reverb a while back, and purged a ton of my gear, selling it off, really downsizing. I sold my Axe Fx2 and AxeFx 3, among other things (who has the time to spend months tweaking it like you're essentially programming a computer?? Ughh). Sold off every damn guitar I don't play. Not one ounce of sentimentality. CME said I had sold them the coolest stuff of anyone, not often they get really nice, carved guitars and expensive digital amps. I don't miss em, even if they're great guitars or amps. For me, keeping stuff that collects dust makes no sense, and I found myself guilty of making no sense. That has been rectified.

    At some point, "good enough" is plenty good ( in fact, let's face it, in a large enough room, an electric guitar of XYZ volume is gonna sound like any other electric guitar at XYZ , lol). . Clean jazz boxes lose their beauty and sonic specificity when played sufficiently loud. When you focus on playing and not chasing "tone demons" or accumulating "GAS" of whatever they call it, it brings focus on what's really important. I feel so much better I stopped acquiring stuff, I can sit down and straight out improvise freely, solo guitar, for hours at a time. I actually played a gig where I did that, three hours straight. I'm sure my teachers would have found plenty of fault with this or that, but the average schmo, they're just checking it out for the ambiance and atmosphere. The average schmo only notices the music being played when it's not being played. That's a fact of life.

    In any event, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is a keeper.

  23. #222

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    TBF Roland Cube is best jazz amp (I only half joke)...

    You can get a workable live clean tone out of most halfway decent amps. The Fender 'sparkle' is actually something I end up EQ'ing out live anyway...

  24. #223

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    - Gear is a fun part of the hobby. As long as you have the time, money, and the space. And your wife doesn't kill you.

    - Lawson: I actually preferred the second amp sound by quite a margin. The acoustic archtop sound really came through. Thanks for taking the time.

  25. #224

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    Sorry didn't mean insult Lawson or anyone else here by my earlier post. It's just that as much as I suffer GAS Ive found it most of what really makes me happy is gigging with other like minded musicians.

    I actually preferred the first amp better in the clip. But either would record just fine enough for me.

  26. #225

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    I also preferred the first amp. It seemed "warmer" and not as "thin" sounding. I am anxiously awaiting the revelation.

    Thank you for all your time and energy involved in making the video. Wonderful playing!