Fender Tone Master TWIN Reverb

**lawson-stone** · 10-01-2019, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by John A.

There are many differences between DR's and TR's beyond the output tubes (in design and in tone); a Twin is not just a louder Deluxe, so it makes sense that there are two different models. People talk about the *.reverb amps being the same amp scaled to different power levels because, but that's an oversimplification. The variations in rectifiers, output sections, speaker configurations, and cabinets make for big differences in sound. Their tones intersect to some degree (a lot at low volume), but as you turn the volume knob up, the tones and the amount of overdrive diverge a lot. A DR and a TR on 6 are very different sounds, volume aside.

John

But... how could you know? I thought a TR played on 6 triggered the fault systems under the earth's surface and brought about the end of civilization? Not something a Polytone could do...

**Stringswinger** · 10-01-2019, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

There are many differences between DR's and TR's beyond the output tubes (in design and in tone); a Twin is not just a louder Deluxe, so it makes sense that there are two different models. People talk about the *.reverb amps being the same amp scaled to different power levels because, but that's an oversimplification. The variations in rectifiers, output sections, speaker configurations, and cabinets make for big differences in sound. Their tones intersect to some degree (a lot at low volume), but as you turn the volume knob up, the tones and the amount of overdrive diverge a lot. A DR and a TR on 6 are very different sounds, volume aside.

John

I have owned a Twin Reverb and a couple of Deluxe Reverbs. VERY different tone. I would say that the Princeton is closer in tone to a Twin than is a DR.

**Jim Soloway** · 10-01-2019, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

These amps really raise an interesting question. If they are as good as Fender says, why would someone buy the TMDR instead of the TMTR? The price difference is not huge, the weight difference, okay, 10 lbs is noticeable. But otherwise, what would be the point of the TMDR over the TMTR?

Could it be that the difference between 2 6V6 power tubes vs. 4 6L6 is captured in the modeling and if folks really prefer the 6V6 sound they'd go with the DR? It would be interesting if the two amps really were that different. I tend to think people chose the originals mainly based on power and weight. Someone who wanted to really burn in any venue went with the TR. Someone playing smaller clubs went with the DR. But now, the only reason I can figure would be that the TM amps somehow capture the difference in the character of each.

But I haven't seen or heard them live, just wondering why someone would go with the TMDR when for $100 more, they could have the TMTR?

If they really do sound like their Blackface equivalents, then I prefer the sound of a Deluxe to the sound of a Twin. Or probably more accurately, I generally like the sound of 6V6's better than the sound of 6L6's.

**geogio** · 10-01-2019, 01:18 PM

My Uncle Joe was a pedal steel player, he also played Jazz banjo (viola tuning), and was a great pianist, and a darn fine orchestra style guitarist.

But as far as the pedal steel went back in the 60s he always and only used Deluxe Reverb amplifiers. I, on the other hand back in the late sixties and early seventies sported a Fender Twin. I also had a tweed that I picked up and a Princeton that I picked up back when they were very affordable. Which is no longer the case.

I inherited Uncle Joe's Deluxe Reverb after his passing away in the early eighties and although it is a nice amp, it had no gain and it was extremely clean which is cool. But it really wasn't the sound or the output that I preferred back in those days. I still have it, but it is sorely in need of repair.

I did like the tremolo feature and I wish amp manufacturers today would routinely incorporate a tremolo feature because that was kind of neat when you needed it.

**cosmic gumbo** · 10-02-2019, 12:08 AM

I remember jamming with some guys 45 years ago out in the boonies on a Saturday afternoon, windows, doors closed,...hardly any neighbors living nearby. Really rocking out, windows rattling, one of the guys had a TR and some pedals. I thought I could hear a pounding noise, and after we ended a tune, I realized it was someone at the front door...state police. We were informed that folks down the road had complained, and this was our warning to stop or get charged with disturbing the peace....oh well.

Yes, we were cranking out the sound, but I looked over at the twin reverb, and the volume was on less than 3.....that was a defining amp moment for me.

I have a vintage 1968 deluxe reverb, and it's a totally different tone machine.

Now if Fender would make a tonemaster Princeton that weighed around 15lbs......look out...

**Gitfiddler** · 10-02-2019, 12:43 AM

Isn't the Fender Tone Master kinda like a digital reissue of their old Princeton Recording Amp...including built-in attenuator? (OK, tongue in cheek)

**ruger9** · 10-02-2019, 08:35 AM

The PRA was a great concept. It got good reviews when it was released. But Fender consumers are tighter than Scrooge on Christmas Eve- if it's not an EXACT replica of a vintage Princeton, it's crap. Maybe these new TMs will begin to change people's minds.

I love tubes, I'll always have tube amps, but I think the time has finally arrived when transistor amps are as good as tubes. I can certainly say that about my Blues cube Artist. But long-held bias is difficult to overcome.

**jads57** · 10-02-2019, 10:57 AM

I tried playing the Twin Tonemaster on 10 as well as low volumes. On the back it has a built in attenuate that you can dial down to 2 watts I believe.
It sou dad good as well. But I'm sure turned up to 50 watts or more it would be even better!
I'm not sure how you could st the amp for both Clean and Dirty as well?

**EarlBrother** · 10-03-2019, 06:58 AM

If i could get some of M.P.s tone he gets out of DR maybe.Of course i would probably need a Gibson 175,find out what strings and learn his attack but yea.

**Tal_175** · 10-03-2019, 09:42 AM

Everytime I use my SS amp (a bass head) I'm amazed how as soon as I turn the amp on I can use it. No waiting for the tubes to warm up. Incredible. Technology just blows my mind sometimes.

**christianm77** · 10-03-2019, 11:32 AM

I tried one. It sounds like a fender.

**EarlBrother** · 10-03-2019, 04:42 PM

Marcos Pin Check solo guitar of Caravan, Take the a train

**archtopeddy** · 10-03-2019, 07:27 PM

FYI: Here's John Mayer jamming to some blues tracks and talking about amp modelers -- pros and cons.

John Mayer: Three Things Amp Modelers Haven't Nailed Down Yet - GuitarPlayer.com

**guavajelly** · 10-04-2019, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

These amps really raise an interesting question. If they are as good as Fender says, why would someone buy the TMDR instead of the TMTR? The price difference is not huge, the weight difference, okay, 10 lbs is noticeable. But otherwise, what would be the point of the TMDR over the TMTR?

Could it be that the difference between 2 6V6 power tubes vs. 4 6L6 is captured in the modeling and if folks really prefer the 6V6 sound they'd go with the DR? It would be interesting if the two amps really were that different. I tend to think people chose the originals mainly based on power and weight. Someone who wanted to really burn in any venue went with the TR. Someone playing smaller clubs went with the DR. But now, the only reason I can figure would be that the TM amps somehow capture the difference in the character of each.

But I haven't seen or heard them live, just wondering why someone would go with the TMDR when for $100 more, they could have the TMTR?

Hm, I think there is more difference than the earlier breakup – which would be neutralized by the output power switch – I think 1x12" sounds different than 2x12".
The obsession with weight is hard to understand for me. Most of us drive to a gig (car or cab) – so weight difference of a few pounds is really not a big thing – or you're using public transportation – which would explain why you want to lose every pound you can – but both these amps would be too bulky to carry on a crowded subway, wouldn't they?

**christianm77** · 10-04-2019, 06:56 AM

So my thoughts on trying one yesterday.
- the same things annoyed me about this amp as annoy me about the real thing.
- it’s eminently schleppable.
- responds great to dirt pedals
- I find it easier to play than my Princeton at gig volume. Maybe the class D power amp?
- I probably wouldn’t take in rush hour through kings cross station. OTOH I think I could schelp it on the tube.

**ruger9** · 10-04-2019, 07:45 AM

There will still be biases against anything Fender that doesn't contain tubes, however, I think Fender has indeed cracked the code with these.

I've seen SO MANY people guess wrong (me included) with the shootout videos, and/or prefer the digital over the tube. I've seen a couple of pros now who think the TM Deluxe is BETTER than the tube version. The bottom line seems to be, as for feel, they are the same. As for tone, the tube vs digital have no more differences than 2 tube amps (2 Deluxes) would have to one another, it could be tube bias, tube brand, how well the speaker had been flogged, component drift or cap leakage due to age... the one guy in the Andertons video even said "I owned 2 Twins, they both sounded good but one sounded great, I kept that one."

I know I spent 2 hours going back and forth between my Fender tube amp and a Roland Blues Cube Artist yesterday, and while I DID have a preference, I couldn't say one sounded any "better" than the other, and had I been blindfolded....

**Spook410** · 10-04-2019, 02:03 PM

Another consideration, minor to most here but matters to buskers, is that a Class D amp can run on a lithium battery. Though in fact, can't say I want to see a busker driving a twin on the street.

**Jaagup** · 10-04-2019, 03:43 PM

I tried one out. I really didn’t want to like these amps, because of the SS factor, but after spending 2 hours with the TMDR... I love it. I’m thinking about jumping on this ship.
I’ve played quite a bunch of “real” deluxes and to my ears the tonemaster sounds a lot better than most of them.
I did not like the attenuator thingy. The amp lost most of its bounce once i turned it to 12w and only got worse from there. i turned it to ten on the lowest wattage just to see how it would respond, sounded horrible! not a fan of that feature.
The reverb was a bit off too. It got really intense real quick. to me it sounded more like a fender reverb unit than a blackface amp. yet it was miles ahead from the 65 spring in the tre-verb pedal.
I feel really conflicted about these amps. I think i need to spend some more time with them and i’d like to take it to a gig before buying one. might have to abuse thomanns return policy

I‘m sceptical about how they hold up in the real world. If they really are as reliable as fender claims, it would seem to me that the future is tubeless.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-04-2019, 05:44 PM

I shouldn't, but I'm going to check out the TMTR. It weighs less that my 44lb 1x12 *cabinet*! (Okay it has a EVM12L in it

)

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-04-2019, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jaagup

The reverb was a bit off too. It got really intense real quick. to me it sounded more like a fender reverb unit than a blackface amp

It would be *awesome* if Fender provided a way to connect to the unit's computer and adjust its configuration. Tweaking the reverb so that the knob adjustment was more gradual ought to be trivial.

For folks who just want a plug and play amp, simply pretend like you didn't read this!

**WilliamScott** · 10-07-2019, 10:55 AM

I bought the TMDR last week. Have used it in two gigs and regret not using it in a third. Love the lightweight. Tone and response are at least as good as the tube version. I wish I could do something that creates this much happiness for myself more often.

**Tal_175** · 10-07-2019, 10:58 AM

I tried a Twin TM. Deluxe Reverb TM was already sold out. Unfortunately, Twin is the Blackface model I'm the least familiar with. I've owned a Princeton and DR's twice. I currently own a DR. From what I remember from playing through Twins in the past, they sound a bit different than DR. So I can't comment on how well it nails the original but it sounded really good. It sounded like a good blackface Fender amp. I liked it very much in all wattage settings.

The original twin was in a different part of the store so I couldn't A/B it. But there were Roland Blues Cube Stage and Blues Cube Artist right next to it. The good thing is the Artist was pretty much the same price, the same size cabinet and 2x12 configuration. It also sounded to me like it was trying to do ball park blackface thing. I preferred the Twin. I enjoyed playing through the Twin more. Note however the BC Artist has more configuration options. It's possible that I could make it just as good after some tweaking, but Twin sounded really good in all settings. I compared them in mid scooped and slightly mid pushed EQ settings both clean and lightly overdriven.

BC Stage sounded much more tweedy. So apples and oranges. I loved it. It's such a fun amp and also very realistic in terms of sounding like a tube amp. Since I already have a Fender DR, if I was to buy an amp that day, I would've walked away with the BC Stage. It's just as good as the Twin TM but it's the tweed flavor.