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  1. #251

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    Okay guys, confession time. I got a Tone Master Twin Reverb about 2 weeks ago. Been playing it every day for 2 weeks.

    This is one seriously amazing amp. I will do a NAD post pretty soon. I wanted to log a lot of time on the amp first. I will also try to do a clip to post here.

    LOVE this amp. XLR out emulating an SM57 is absolutely perfect. No need to mic the cab anymore. Attenuation works. Can crank it to about 8 on the front, set the output to a lower power on the back, and you get what you want at a volume that won't bring the police.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #252

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    Both the TMTR and the JC-120 list for $USD 1,000 and the JC-120 is 1970's technology -- i think they've covered their R&D on that amp.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  4. #253

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    I A/B/C'd the TMDR against a DRRI and a PRRI (because it was right there) in the very nice demo room of one of my local shops. To me it did not sound or feel exactly like a tube amp, but rather like an excellent emulation of a tube amp. The tube amps felt mechanical and immediate, the TMDR felt ever-so-slightly removed. But the TMDR sounded beautiful - I preferred its tone to the DRRI.

    I am in the market for a new amp and I need something that sounds like a classic Fender but that can be attenuated and DI'd to work in a live situation with other instruments (I do a one man band thing with a looper and mixer). I am also used to tube amps. The Princeton Recording amp was the last product that seemed built for my needs, but they are problematic for various reasons.

    So for me this product aspires to tick every box, and it does with the sole exception of the fact that it feels slightly digital in the same way that my (excellent) Korg SV-1 feels digital compared to my Rhodes and Wurli. For me the relative convenience of my SV-1 vastly outweighs the "uncanny valley" aspect of its sound reproduction. The choice to buy the TMDR would be, for me, a choice to go in the same direction with my amp, but I'm finding it a difficult choice.

    Worth noting that a lot of other (much more experienced) players on other boards have stated that in a band context they can perceive no difference between playing a TM amp and its tube equivalent, so it may be that outside of the specific context in which I was testing the amps, which was similar to what you'd find in a studio setting, the difference doesn't matter.

  5. #254

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    . Can crank it to about 8 on the front, set the output to a lower power on the back, and you get what you want at a volume that won't bring the police.
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?

  6. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?
    Dale was the only cat who could make SRV sound a bit tentative

  7. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?
    Well I do it with the attenuator on the back set to maybe 12 Watts. I did open her up briefly and when I woke up later staring up at the sky (the roof was somehow gone) I had no memory of what had happened.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  8. #257

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Well I do it with the attenuator on the back set to maybe 12 Watts. I did open her up briefly and when I woke up later staring up at the sky (the roof was somehow gone) I had no memory of what had happened.
    Thanks for my laugh for the day!! I hope you recover soon.

  9. #258
    I have to say I'm a bit skeptical when people say they can tell the non-tube amp after comparing HIGH QUALITY tube emulations and tube amps in non-blind folded contexts.
    It was posted in some forum that in one of the GC stores they removed the tone master logo and asked customer the compared tone masters and real tube versions. People guessed the TM's tubes because they sounded better. Of course you can A/B and tell which one you enjoy more. But identifying the real tube one with any confidence seems to require having a prior knowledge of which one was which in the first place
    I think these TM's are a great platform to do blind folded comparisons as they are designed to sound the same as the tube counter parts. I bet we'll see a whole bunch of blind fold challenge videos with these amps in the near future.

  10. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Well I do it with the attenuator on the back set to maybe 12 Watts. I did open her up briefly and when I woke up later staring up at the sky (the roof was somehow gone) I had no memory of what had happened.
    It's no larfing matter.

    Build bridges, not walls.

  11. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Dale was the only cat who could make SRV sound a bit tentative
    HA!!!!

  12. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    I have to say I'm a bit skeptical when people say they can tell the non-tube amp after comparing HIGH QUALITY tube emulations and tube amps in non-blind folded contexts.
    It was posted in some forum that in one of the GC stores they removed the tone master logo and asked customer the compared tone masters and real tube versions. People guessed the TM's tubes because they sounded better. Of course you can A/B and tell which one you enjoy more. But identifying the real tube one with any confidence seems to require having a prior knowledge of which one was which in the first place
    I think these TM's are a great platform to do blind folded comparisons as they are designed to sound the same as the tube counter parts. I bet we'll see a whole bunch of blind fold challenge videos with these amps in the near future.
    The idea that the TM amps are indistinguishable from their tube counterparts is central to the way Fender is marketing them. There are a number of "blind" comparison videos up already. I can only speak for myself - to me the difference in the room was obvious, and it was not the same as the tonal difference between any two tube amps, it was a difference in kind, if that makes sense. A lot of people who are more experienced than I, and who I can only assume have more refined ears, have said otherwise. I find this really interesting.

  13. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?
    I thought he was known for using a Dual Showman (even louder)?. Mike Bloomfield played through cranked Twins in his LP period. The live stuff with Al Kooper is probably the best example of someone demonstrating the full range of a Twin.A friend I've been playing with in both rock and jazz situations for decades has a twin. Back in the day, I had a brown Pro with a D130, and we would both be cranked up. It was nuts. Now we both use Princetons on maybe 3.

  14. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by conchmusic View Post
    I A/B/C'd the TMDR against a DRRI and a PRRI (because it was right there) in the very nice demo room of one of my local shops. To me it did not sound or feel exactly like a tube amp, but rather like an excellent emulation of a tube amp. The tube amps felt mechanical and immediate, the TMDR felt ever-so-slightly removed. But the TMDR sounded beautiful - I preferred its tone to the DRRI.I am in the market for a new amp and I need something that sounds like a classic Fender but that can be attenuated and DI'd to work in a live situation with other instruments (I do a one man band thing with a looper and mixer). I am also used to tube amps. The Princeton Recording amp was the last product that seemed built for my needs, but they are problematic for various reasons.So for me this product aspires to tick every box, and it does with the sole exception of the fact that it feels slightly digital in the same way that my (excellent) Korg SV-1 feels digital compared to my Rhodes and Wurli. For me the relative convenience of my SV-1 vastly outweighs the "uncanny valley" aspect of its sound reproduction. The choice to buy the TMDR would be, for me, a choice to go in the same direction with my amp, but I'm finding it a difficult choice. Worth noting that a lot of other (much more experienced) players on other boards have stated that in a band context they can perceive no difference between playing a TM amp and its tube equivalent, so it may be that outside of the specific context in which I was testing the amps, which was similar to what you'd find in a studio setting, the difference doesn't matter.
    My feeling is that it responded differently - seemed easier to play.

  15. #264

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    I thought he was known for using a Dual Showman (even louder)?
    Correct, but he started with the TR and kept destroying the early ones until Leo designed the DS for him. Dick played right up until the end, but the DS was discontinued in 1993, so I'm sure you know what Fender amp he switched to....

  16. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    Correct, but he started with the TR and kept destroying the early ones until Leo designed the DS for him. Dick played right up until the end, but the DS was discontinued in 1993, so I'm sure you know what Fender amp he switched to....
    Aw, I'm sure Dale had plenty of DS's "leftover" to use for the rest of his life... just like Brian Setzer still has plenty of 6G6-B blonde Bassmans and Roland 301's to last HIM the rest of his life....

  17. #266

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    Here's one of Dick's rig set ups on display at Arizona's Musical Instrument Museum. I remember standing staring at it for a very long time like it was a holy shrine.


  18. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles View Post
    It's no larfing matter.

    Oh, man, not again!
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  19. #268

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    All I can say is both Tonemaster versions sounded great! And for me not dealing with the issues associated with their tube counterpart versions is a huge plus.
    From no more tubes going bad, wall voltage,heavy weight,etc.
    I'm so happy to be done with tube amps!

    And I've owned all of them from Fender,Marshall,Dumble,Boogie,etc.

  20. #269
    A blind fold test:

  21. #270

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    I think Dick Dale is the only person known on the planet to use a TR on 8 or above. How does that feel?
    I once ran a '65 Twin Reissue close to 10. I used to play in a seriously loud latin band. This was at an outdoor gig, no sound reinforcement for guitar.
    It was an incredible sound. Generally I don't like playing loud, but that was fun. I could get controlled microphonic feedback that meant I could hold onto notes for hours if I wanted. This was with my 1973 Les Paul Recording of all instruments. Terry Kath of the band Chicago would approve! I'm surprised I didn't cause an earthquake or tsunami.

  22. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by entresz View Post
    I once ran a '65 Twin Reissue close to 10. I used to play in a seriously loud latin band. This was at an outdoor gig, no sound reinforcement for guitar.
    It was an incredible sound. Generally I don't like playing loud, but that was fun. I could get controlled microphonic feedback that meant I could hold onto notes for hours if I wanted. This was with my 1973 Les Paul Recording of all instruments. Terry Kath of the band Chicago would approve! I'm surprised I didn't cause an earthquake or tsunami.
    Careful out there, folks... guess what amp is at the bottom of this hole....

    Have you tried the Tone Masters yet?-sinkhole-big-jpg
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  23. #272

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Careful out there, folks... guess what amp is at the bottom of this hole....

    Have you tried the Tone Masters yet?-sinkhole-big-jpg
    I’ve never heard about the Fender Twin disaster before. Probably I’ll find it in my history books, but where???
    Have I found it yet? I said that but I didn’t knew it. Did I knew that I had found it yet? No, it wasn’t what I was looking for. Nevermind. Ok.

    -Pataphysical monologue based on Cartesian theory

  24. #273

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  25. #274

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    I think ”The amp that shook the world” will be a best-selling documentary in 2049.
    Have I found it yet? I said that but I didn’t knew it. Did I knew that I had found it yet? No, it wasn’t what I was looking for. Nevermind. Ok.

    -Pataphysical monologue based on Cartesian theory

  26. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Careful out there, folks... guess what amp is at the bottom of this hole....

    Have you tried the Tone Masters yet?-sinkhole-big-jpg
    You don't even need to plug it in for that to happen.

  27. #276

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    Tried to move mine last week - big mistake.

    Have you tried the Tone Masters yet?-b0792de5-a43c-4a08-9eaf-433622f60a9c-jpg

  28. #277

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    At my local GC, I was told they'd be in within the next week.

    We shall see.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  29. #278

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    Seen a lot more tube Fender Twin's on Craiglist than I've seen before.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  30. #279

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    I have been comparing the TMTR with the PRRI since I have them, at the moment, side by side in the same room. They sound quite different, both great, but different. I have not been able, though to record that difference using my best recording techniques.

    Then I hit on a method, crude but effective: just use my phone. So I played the identical solo through each and recorded them with my iPhone to capture the "in the room" sound. It was a little hard because to equalize the volume I had to tone down the TMTR, so I set the attenuator on 12W which is pretty close to the PRRI. Reverb about the same on each. I don't switch back and forth, just Amp 1 and then Amp 2.

    Here's the result. The recording isn't the greatest, but it actually does capture the differences between the two amps "in the room." I have not ID'd which is which to put the focus not on which is better, or which is tubes, but simply: how would you describe (not necessarily judge) the differences in tone? Of course, you're free to comment on anything you want, but I'd love to refine my ability to characterize different tones.

    I used the L5ces because it seems to me to reflect amp differences the most of any guitar I own.

    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  31. #280

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    I think the real test for most of us would be on a loud gig. But there is definitely a difference in the 2. But if recording is the goal,I wouldn't even use a miked amplifier.

    I think we are getting almost to bit picky about our gear. After a certain point it's really just wasted money and energy. It should be more focused on actual playing and music.

  32. #281

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    Second amp sounds much more focused in the upper mids—less pleasant to my ear. I preferred the warmth of the lower mids of the first amp.

  33. #282

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    I think the real test for most of us would be on a loud gig. But there is definitely a difference in the 2. But if recording is the goal,I wouldn't even use a miked amplifier.

    I think we are getting almost to bit picky about our gear. After a certain point it's really just wasted money and energy. It should be more focused on actual playing and music.
    100%. true. I got a Tone Masters Deluxe Reverb a while back, and purged a ton of my gear, selling it off, really downsizing. I sold my Axe Fx2 and AxeFx 3, among other things (who has the time to spend months tweaking it like you're essentially programming a computer?? Ughh). Sold off every damn guitar I don't play. Not one ounce of sentimentality. CME said I had sold them the coolest stuff of anyone, not often they get really nice, carved guitars and expensive digital amps. I don't miss em, even if they're great guitars or amps. For me, keeping stuff that collects dust makes no sense, and I found myself guilty of making no sense. That has been rectified.

    At some point, "good enough" is plenty good ( in fact, let's face it, in a large enough room, an electric guitar of XYZ volume is gonna sound like any other electric guitar at XYZ , lol). . Clean jazz boxes lose their beauty and sonic specificity when played sufficiently loud. When you focus on playing and not chasing "tone demons" or accumulating "GAS" of whatever they call it, it brings focus on what's really important. I feel so much better I stopped acquiring stuff, I can sit down and straight out improvise freely, solo guitar, for hours at a time. I actually played a gig where I did that, three hours straight. I'm sure my teachers would have found plenty of fault with this or that, but the average schmo, they're just checking it out for the ambiance and atmosphere. The average schmo only notices the music being played when it's not being played. That's a fact of life.

    In any event, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is a keeper.
    Navdeep Singh.

  34. #283

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    TBF Roland Cube is best jazz amp (I only half joke)...

    You can get a workable live clean tone out of most halfway decent amps. The Fender 'sparkle' is actually something I end up EQ'ing out live anyway...

  35. #284

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    - Gear is a fun part of the hobby. As long as you have the time, money, and the space. And your wife doesn't kill you.

    - Lawson: I actually preferred the second amp sound by quite a margin. The acoustic archtop sound really came through. Thanks for taking the time.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  36. #285

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    Sorry didn't mean insult Lawson or anyone else here by my earlier post. It's just that as much as I suffer GAS Ive found it most of what really makes me happy is gigging with other like minded musicians.

    I actually preferred the first amp better in the clip. But either would record just fine enough for me.

  37. #286

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    I also preferred the first amp. It seemed "warmer" and not as "thin" sounding. I am anxiously awaiting the revelation.

    Thank you for all your time and energy involved in making the video. Wonderful playing!

  38. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    Second amp sounds much more focused in the upper mids—less pleasant to my ear. I preferred the warmth of the lower mids of the first amp.
    I don't know, maybe it's me, or my headphones, I didn't hear the "warmth" (in the lower mids) in the 1st amp. I preferred the "warmth" and fat tone of the second amp, which I attribute to "mids". But, after lusting after, and finally owning an L5CES, I'd prefer mine to sound like the one played thru Amp #2.
    Just to add, I liked both amps in the video
    Last edited by Jimmy Mack; 11-02-2019 at 09:31 PM. Reason: adding to it

  39. #288
    If you are going to try either of these amps in a store, plug an xotic EP boost pedal in front of it. Don’t even boost the signal. Basically it emulates the sound of the echoplex pre amp. I bought it for a clean boost but leave it on all the time. It is the only sound i like better than the tonemaster twin. Time to sell some tube amps and modelers

  40. #289

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzpgsr View Post
    Second amp sounds much more focused in the upper mids—less pleasant to my ear. I preferred the warmth of the lower mids of the first amp.
    +1
    .................................................. .......................................
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  41. #290

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    I prefer the sound of the 1st amp it was warmer and smoother. The second was quite different much brighter more acoustic. In the right situation could be great.

    lawson thanks for doing these it is cool. Your playing is nice and the L5 is way out beautiful.

    So off topic those books on the shelves.....probably some biblical archives the deacon could do well to read. The L5 would keep getting in my way if you left it out.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  42. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoadsscholar View Post
    If you are going to try either of these amps in a store, plug an xotic EP boost pedal in front of it. Don’t even boost the signal. Basically it emulates the sound of the echoplex pre amp. I bought it for a clean boost but leave it on all the time. It is the only sound i like better than the tonemaster twin. Time to sell some tube amps and modelers
    I do that.

  43. #292

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    Speaker size aside, CAB SIZE is going to make a huge difference in the sound of those 2 amps... kind of apples vs oranges

  44. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    Sorry didn't mean insult Lawson or anyone else here by my earlier post. It's just that as much as I suffer GAS Ive found it most of what really makes me happy is gigging with other like minded musicians.

    I actually preferred the first amp better in the clip. But either would record just fine enough for me.
    Hey no problem. I totally understood your intent and I felt no insult or offense at all. Thanks for a pertinent observation. I do these demos because they are fun, I’m fortunate to have the stuff I have and I want to make it easier for others to make decisions.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  45. #294

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    ....I want to make it easier for others to make decisions.
    Unless it is buried somewhere in this thread and I missed it, when will you be revealing which is Amp #1 and Amp #2?
    The suspense it doin' me in, as I have an insatiable curiosity.

  46. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoadsscholar View Post
    If you are going to try either of these amps in a store, plug an xotic EP boost pedal in front of it. Don’t even boost the signal. Basically it emulates the sound of the echoplex pre amp. I bought it for a clean boost but leave it on all the time. It is the only sound i like better than the tonemaster twin. Time to sell some tube amps and modelers
    Just did a quick search on that pedal, sounds interesting, almost too good to be true. And the first thread I found was a multi page discussion on TGP from 2015 or so with guys using it with their tube amps. Lots of raves.

    These new Tone Masters may be what gets me to finally go solid state. I've been pondering the latest odd little noises coming from one of my tube amps and switched out a few tubes already. I love my tube amps but tubes can be a PIA in general..old tubes are super expensive and new ones are suspect.

    I would buy a new Tone Master if I were a current buyer to get the warranty just in case.

  47. #296

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    I'd have to guess that amp 2 is the tone master deluxe. I have a tube 66 deluxe and a Princeton with a 12" so it seems consistent to what I hear. I somehow manage to guess wrong in many of these demos though!

  48. #297

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    I’m guessing TMTR is amp 1. In one of Lawson’s earlier demos I was surprised at how bright the PRRI sounded.

  49. #298

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    I haven't played a "Tone Master" yet, but I did pick up a TM Deluxe Reverb while visiting a local music store yesterday.
    You look at it and think UGH . . . but it's as light as my Pro Jr. and so much bigger !!!

    Looks like us old guys are being noticed as an amp buying demographic.
    Next thing might be a 30 pound Marshall half stack made out of balsawood.

    I still dig my Pro Jr, but dang if it only weighed 5 pounds !!!!

  50. #299

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    So here it is:

    #1 is the Princeton Reverb Reissue from Sweetwater with the 12” CR speaker and some tube swaps (of course!)

    #2 is the Tone Master Twin Reverb


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  51. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    So here it is:

    #1 is the Princeton Reverb Reissue from Sweetwater with the 12” CR speaker and some tube swaps (of course!)

    #2 is the Tone Master Twin Reverb


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Could you please go out and buy a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb and include it in the same video.
    Thanks in advance, much appreciated (j/k)