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I’ve been on the lookout for a “big bottle” octal amp. I play in a big band and while my little champ gets me the right sound in a small room at rehearsal, I realized it’s underpowered for any gig.
The Epi Zephyr was one of the models I was looking for and this one popped up in Italy at a reasonable price. The seller was a knowledgeable and very, very nice chap, so I took the plunge. Got it today and barely had the time to unbox, check functioning, take some pics and play it a little.
The sound is EXACTLY what I was looking for. And the amp looks beautiful, is not too heavy, and is very quiet. So I’m already quite a bit in love. I am not 100% sure that it has enough volume for my (amateur) big band gigs – which is what I bought it for in the first place. The opportunity to test will come very soon. In case I'm still underpowered, I’ll have to consider alternatives: (a) send it back with a broken heart (seller – who did I mention is a VERY nice chap? – agreed that “if not fit for your uses I’ll take it back”); (b) consider some very careful and respectful mods such as changing tubes or swapping the original FC speaker (I’m off to tech tomorrow for a general run-over and to discuss this); (c) just accept that on some occasions at least, it needs to be mic’d. I doubt very much that I’ll have the strength to send it back…
Pics or it didn’t happen, right?
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09-05-2019 06:47 PM
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Super cool amp! Congratulations, and play it in good health!
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Small update:
- tech cleared it, while recommending to keep it stock and use a mic if needed. I think he’s right. It’s quite possible that the tubes are the original ones, at least the “JAN” 6SJ7 in the preamp and phase inverter.
- the amp will not be sent back. It’s MIIINE. Bouhahahahahaha
. I’ll buy a good case for it so I can shlep it around for gigs without overtaxing the über-frail handle.
- tried it with a strat and tele. It sounded GLORIOUS, and I also realized the amp has got LOADS of volume and it’s the low output of my DeArmond that explains the lack of volume I felt at first try. I think I have the pickup too far from the strings so I’ll deal with that. Anyway, the 2x6L6G of the amp do a great job and I think it’s giggable.
Yipee
Little sample recorded at low volume with my Loar and FHC:
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Great amp! You should be able to get yourself a hoard of 6sj7 preamp tubes and keep them around. I have done this for my octal tube amps. These amps burn through octal preamp tubes relatively slowly, so you should be in good shape.
GT
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Oh man that is a killer tone. Nothing beats these old octal amps.
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The thing that really suprised me is how fabulous it sounds also with strats and teles. TONE!
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Tele -> Octal sounding good surprised you??? Everything* sounds good through these amps.
*Especially guitars, lapsteels, and harmonicas.
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Love to get one of these, or something like it, someday.
A few years ago I was playing through an old Oahu at CME...the tone was just perfect. I would have bought it on the spot, but the thing literally started smoking as I was playing. Wasn't meant to be.
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One of the nice thing about Ampeg amps is that they stayed with octal preamp tubes for an impossibly long time. Ampegs/Fenders/Gibsons. Great amps. Of course, all the Supro/Valco amps are great, too.
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Well… not surprised in those terms
Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
I expected goodness, especially western swing goodness and the like. Junior Barnard (he had one of these things!), Eldon… But then I started hendrixing around, and Albert Leeing, and just plain bluesin’, and then I pulled the strat out and in no time I had searing tone for a totally inspired Shine on … this, I did not expect.
So, to put it more accurately, it sounded totally awesome in way more applications that I’d have thought looking at it. It looks ‘30s bandstand you know? But it can rock with the best of them apparently! HAHA. I am pretty crazy about it now, and it complements so perfectly the 64 Tremolux sitting beside it…
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1946 is my birth year and I feel like a museum piece. Are you sure you want to subject such a rarity to serious use?
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Pretty sure. It can go to the museum after I’m done with it Originally Posted by Gitterbug
But I’ll treat it not only with respect – with love and care. Promised
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Congratulations1
Good recording, sounds like you'll know how to use it.
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This is really a nice compliment, thanks Originally Posted by rabbit
Congratulations1
Good recording, sounds like you'll know how to use it.
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FWIW, the "JAN" stands for Joint Army Navy, or equipment sold to and approved by both of the military services. There were only two back then. The Air Force didn't exist until the Key West agreements of 1947. The Marines belonged (and still do) to the Navy, and what became the Air Force was the Army Air Corps. Nothing magic about JAN, it just shows that the military could use it.
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Thank god you didn't mess with the field coil speaker! As soon as I read that at the beginning of the thread my heart dropped.
I find the same issue with the very low output of my 1937 ES-150 and old octal amps. I plug in my ol' 1996 Les Paul and it sounds SOOOOO loud. My FHC is actually quite a bit louder than the CC pickup in my ES-150, so I notice a huge bump even there. But the original pick up is just soooo low output, and it can make it seem like an amp has no power. I used to think I was stuck with it unless I re-magnetized the pickup, but I went another route....
So, here's what I've started doing: using a boost pedal on it's lowest setting.
I picked up one of these TC Electronic Spark pedals - Sorry! Something went wrong! - and on its lowest setting it provides just enough output boost to help noticeably.
I don't use it always, but when it's practical I find a get a lot more sound out of the amp, and without slamming the input stage unduly.
But otherwise, congrats on the amp! Octal tubes and field coil speakers have a really magic relationship. Enjoy!Last edited by campusfive; 09-07-2019 at 01:51 AM.
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Ah, you know, it’s the kind of thing you muse about when after first try you think it won’t have enough juice for its intended use. “Oh no, I just spent 800$ and it won’t do the job… what can I do now?”. Then you cool down, play some more, and see the light. So there never was a real risk I’d carve out the ROLA speaker Originally Posted by campusfive
Now the clean boost thing is not something I’d have thought of but I’ll certainly try it. THX!
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For anyone who might be interested in buying prehistoric electric musical instruments, I’ve gained a bit more insight and experience… It turns out that Gitterbug was onto something ;D Originally Posted by Gitterbug
a) Very old amps DO put out less volume. We’ve all come to expect a 2x6L6 amp to put out between 20 and 50 watts. Not this one: rudimentary circuit and very low plate voltages (round 270V my tech said) mean ?10W. It’s still plenty loud if you sit in front of it, but I can't gig it with a big band unless I can mic it (which I usually can, so…).
b) The cab is flimsy, the handle ill-designed and unreliable, the chassis vibrates, the tubes rattle. Finding good tubes is a bit of a challenge. And the amp can act up, badly. Did it in the middle of its only gig so far, too, the little old bastard. Off to tech, then a period at home and … oops, tube died (strange noise… back to tech). Then huge rattle. Back to tech. I just got it back today, and my tech did a great job to make it quieter but said: it’s old stuff… you have to treat it gently. Gig it, but a backup is mandatory. And don’t push it too much (… about which… see again point a) about volume)
c) It’s undeniably one of the (in not the) best-sounding amp I’ve ever come across. Today I went out to try a 1963 Brown Princeton – the first 6G2 I play. It sounded lovely with a strat, and I understood why everyone raves about them, but so-so with my archtop. Then I’ve picked Zep up from the tech and brought it home. I had forgotten. It sounds FABULOUS with both my archtop and strat, and very good with my tele and Casino. In my limited experience, nothing really compares. My backup (Jr. Barnyard into very clean SS amps or PA) is very nice, but it’s not the same feeling.
So… my expectations were too much (“Hey, I got me a big bottle swing amp, I’ll gig it no problem!!”). What I have is in fact a wonderful-sounding, fragile, quirky amp. If I can use it at gigs, great. if not, I once thought that I should flip it to “make room”. No more. Even as a home and recording amp, which is what it might become eventually, it can stamp a big smile on my face, and that is priceless.
PS: I happen to have a TC electronics mini Spark around the house, and I haven’t tried the Stout trick so far… hmm…
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Amps like these may be fragile, but are wonderful sources of inspiration in the practice room and the studio. I've gigged with my wide-panel Deluxe, and it held up fine, and I was grateful. That field-coil speaker has a sound of its own! Enjoy that beautiful little amp, and always carry a backup!
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Originally Posted by radiofm74
Hi there !
Happy Epiphone Day to you ! ... and me ... I got the same amp, it is just 250 #'s younger than yours.
9749 instead of 9989.
reading your enthusiastic thread convinced me to buy it - it is more than wonderful.
hello Jazzguitar.be this is my first post.
cheers
Jan
here are two pics:
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Welcome to Jazzguitar! And congrats on the amp. Mine is still giving me lots of joy. It shares swing duties with a brownface deluxe, but is my only amp to sound fantastic with my Loar equipped with a FHC – quite possibly my favorite jazz sound bar none. Originally Posted by Filmosound 621
Hi there !
Happy Epiphone Day to you ! ... and me ... I got the same amp, it is just 250 #'s younger than yours.
9749 instead of 9989.
reading your enthusiastic thread convinced me to buy it - it is more than wonderful.
hello Jazzguitar.be this is my first post.
cheers
Jan
here are two pics:
And they're beautiful. Enjoy yours in good health!
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thanks for the warm welcome !
I felt sick at first to have bought it - just another amplifier - mine is not restored yet, with lots of white noise,
that might distract from its glory at first.
Once the amp is warmed up, it sounds more than sweet, I have yet to explore, what all it can do.
Did you read this link ? Your impressions about its looks were spot on ... it has been "designed to look like a 30's Bandstand"
and that handle is "echoing the look of an old fashioned stand light"
Electar Amplifier | Gypsy Jazz UK
quite cool.
I am about to give it to a technician, to have it gone through, hope they'll keep the magic intact.
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Do that! To keep the magic intact you need to do three things: Originally Posted by Filmosound 621
I am about to give it to a technician, to have it gone through, hope they'll keep the magic intact.
- Put it in the hands of a tech who knows and respects VERY OLD amp technology. Realize that this is from way before Leo defined what a modern tube amp is. If you don't find a tech who knows his way around that beautiful curly maple cabinet, you might perhaps want to inquire with antique radio repair shops because the technology is just that: 30s radios. If there's a little premium to be paid for competent service, pay it – it's worth it!
- Agree to none of the changes proposed to make 'em more powerful and cleaner (changing the speaker – Lord, no! – transformers etc). Make it clear that you want it in ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION, only fully functioning and made safer (3-prong, etc…). Tell them to be thorough. There are hidden dangers in an amp like that, like badly shielded parts that can shock you, dying tube sockets…
- Expect it to come out of service in good performing order, but don't expect it to become a modern amp. After loving and tender care, mine still makes noises and grumbles from time to time, and is less powerful and more fragile than my other amps. I love it (passionately) exactly for what it is, and it gives me a swing vibe that no other amp can. I dream of buying an EH-185 alongside it some day, but the Zep is staying with me until the end of its (or my) days.
I have the schematic that came with mine. If you need it I'll post it: yours can't be any different being just #250 apart!
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I just found this thread after spotting my Zephyr Electar amp in my storage and thinking it is time to restore it. I have owned my Zephyr for many years (Looks just like the one in this thread, but I think it is a 1941). I have been building and restoring amps for 20 years, but this amp has been a mystery to me. Many of them, mine included were modified along the way to accommodate more modern tubes. Mine came to me in about 2003 with 5881 output tubes and 6SL7 and 6SN7 octals in it. I think it originally may have had 6Y6 outputs and 7N7 octals. I replaced all of the leaking original coupling caps and it played nicely, but had low gain. Packed it away 11 years ago when I moved from California to Minnesota and never got around to getting back into it. I think I am now properly motivated. I think these are one of the coolest looking designs of all time. Originally Posted by radiofm74
I noted you have a schematic. I would like to get a scan, if possible. Pic is what mine looked like inside as I received it.
Willy O in Minnesota
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Willy
I just found this thread after spotting my Zephyr Electar amp in my storage and thinking it is time to restore it. I have owned my Zephyr for many years (Looks just like the one in this thread, but I think it is a 1941). I have been building and restoring amps for 20 years, but this amp has been a mystery to me. Many of them, mine included were modified along the way to accommodate more modern tubes. Mine came to me in about 2003 with 5881 output tubes and 6SL7 and 6SN7 octals in it. I think it originally may have had 6Y6 outputs and 7N7 octals. I replaced all of the leaking original coupling caps and it played nicely, but had low gain. Packed it away 11 years ago when I moved from California to Minnesota and never got around to getting back into it. I think I am now properly motivated. I think these are one of the coolest looking designs of all time.
I noted you have a schematic. I would like to get a scan, if possible. Pic is what mine looked like inside as I received it.
Willy O in Minnesota
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Giving the Loar some love
Today, 05:05 PM in The Builder's Bench