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  1. #1

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    For quite a while i had a sitar effect on the G string of my 2003 L5 which i didn't repair because the baking soda method of filling the slot seemed to be a bit awkward to do and bringing it to a tech seemed to be a lot of trouble as i rarely play an open G string.

    Recently i came across the following Video
    which encouraged me to buy some of this modern glue and i was surprised how smooth and effortless the repair turned out to be.

    PS: there are quite a few UV glue products on the market, my glue & light kit cost me about CHF 15.- (approx. $ 15.-).
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  3. #2

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    The UV glue's been used by dentists since the early '80s.

    Now, due to a new pricing paradigm, it's been pushed to new areas of use, mostly in the DIY market, and guitar repairing have many possibilities avere It can be used, and even preferable to other glues used in the past.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy
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  4. #3

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    Do these glues really harden tough enough for a guitar nut ?
    Are there specialized glues available for differing tasks and what brands should I look for ? Thanks !

  5. #4

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    I had not heard of these being on the market at low prices until this thread. Looking around at different UV glues, it does appear that some of them cure into a rather rubbery product and some of them cure into a very hard product. I'm sure there's someone here with more experience that can talk about how to find the right products for this particular application.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  6. #5

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    My only experience was Bondic, probably the first UV glue for the mass market. Not impressed. Can't see why materials available to dentists couldn't be used by luthiers for nut repairs. Fifty shades of white and hard as nails. There's got to be a few proverbial guitar-collecting dentists amongst us - please comment!

  7. #6

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    There's a whole line of hardware made for UV glue and the glass industry. EG: display cases. We occasionally use it in the cabinet shop I manage to bond hinges to glass doors. It's from a company called Bohle. It cures hard, clear and strong. Very strong. Like epoxy.

    I think the bottle we have is over 10 years old. It seems if there's no UV it lasts forever. It's a bit pricey for the DIY market, but with that kind of shelf life it's totally viable for a luthier.

  8. #7

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    I use some Loon UV glue for some fishing applications. Not really all that impressed with the stuff.

    For guitar nuts thin cyanoacrylate with bone dust or baking soda works quite well, is cheap, and broadly available. And acetone works well if you need to get it off your fingers. Not sure a more expensive solution is needed.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug View Post
    My only experience was Bondic, probably the first UV glue for the mass market. Not impressed. Can't see why materials available to dentists couldn't be used by luthiers for nut repairs. Fifty shades of white and hard as nails. There's got to be a few proverbial guitar-collecting dentists amongst us - please comment!
    Just ask your dentists for a small tube of filling material, explaining why you want it. It sets rock-hard, with the UV light.
    The amount of money we spend there, they couldn't really say no...

    I've tried the UV glue, but - possibly because it was the wrong brand/ type - it didn't set hard enough.

  10. #9

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    There are reviews on the interwebtubez. I have some on order, along with a UV flashlight. For what should be a quantity sufficient for many years, along with the light, I paid ~$10. It's the brand rated highest in some of the reviews, supposedly cures very hard. People seem to make jewelry from it, so it should cure very hard. I'll find out in a week or two.

    The problem with cyanoacrylate and bone dust/baking soda/whatever is that it can be messy, and it cures very quickly with sometimes suboptimal results. The UV glue doesn't start to cure at all until it's exposed to UV light, so it's easy to clean up, remove excess, and get all in place before it starts to cure, with no rush at all, but it cures very quickly when exposed to UV light. The two-part compounds do cure very hard, and I have had some of it in my mouth for 20 years or so, with no noticeable wear. The one-part may be somewhat different, but we'll see soon enough. I don't really have any nuts that need work right now, but some experimentation couldn't hurt, could it?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    The problem with cyanoacrylate and bone dust/baking soda/whatever is that it can be messy, and it cures very quickly with sometimes suboptimal results.
    Experimentation is good and if you have good luck with the UV cure let us know.

    As for the cyanoacrylate, I am worlds worst at cutting nut slots too deep so my technique has evolved. One key to the process, in addition to masking tape, using a paint brush to clear excess dust before you glue, and patience, is using a micro tip for your glue dispenser (super thin glue) so you can control getting just a little where you want it. Example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CWJYG52/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  12. #11

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    I've repaired several nut slots over the years with powder from a bone nut blank and cheap liquid cyanoacrylate (not gel). I just file the nut blank onto a piece of parchment paper until it looks like there's enough, put some masking tape alongside the nut, fold the parchment paper to make a chute, and tap the powder into the desired slot. Clean off excess powder with a brush or some tape, put a drop of the glue into the slot, let it harden overnight, file appropriately the next day. At least one of those repairs was still fine 20 years later--don't know about the rest.

    Total cost of materials perhaps ten cents. No special tools needed.

    Danny W.

  13. #12

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    There is no question that cyanoacrylate works. But if there is a better tool, it makes sense to use it. I don't know yet if UV glue is better, but it's cheap enough to try. One thing about cyano that I don't like is that it goes bad rather quickly. Bad as in it starts to set and harden even while it's in the container, as airtight as I can get it. I've wasted a lot of it over the years. If I can prevent that wastage, I'll be money ahead. And the stuff I'm seeing is as cheap as cyanoacrylate, which makes it attractive if it gets hard and durable enough. Technology progresses apace, and we may as well utilize it. I easily remember when the only fixes for a badly cut nut were a shim or a new nut.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    There is no question that cyanoacrylate works. But if there is a better tool, it makes sense to use it. I don't know yet if UV glue is better, but it's cheap enough to try. One thing about cyano that I don't like is that it goes bad rather quickly. Bad as in it starts to set and harden even while it's in the container, as airtight as I can get it. I've wasted a lot of it over the years. If I can prevent that wastage, I'll be money ahead. And the stuff I'm seeing is as cheap as cyanoacrylate, which makes it attractive if it gets hard and durable enough. Technology progresses apace, and we may as well utilize it. I easily remember when the only fixes for a badly cut nut were a shim or a new nut.
    For the few repairs i did so far the UV glue has worked very well. It's the most efficient to use (fast and clean) and got really hard (i also glued some glasses with it). As it looks now there's no way for me to mess with anything like cyano anymore after i found out about this. And same here: too much cyano i had to throw away over the years because it dried up to quick in the container.
    _________
    JazzNote

  15. #14

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    CA glue should be stored in a fridge. This extends the shelf life. Apparently, the plastic bottles are not entirely impervious to humidity, the enemy #1. What also bugs me is the shape of the bottles. They tilt on every opportunity, whereby the glue seeps into the cap and clogs the nozzle. Many common makes are too viscous at the outset. My best experiences are with the Locktite and Zap brands.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug View Post
    CA glue should be stored in a fridge. This extends the shelf life. Apparently, the plastic bottles are not entirely impervious to humidity, the enemy #1. What also bugs me is the shape of the bottles. They tilt on every opportunity, whereby the glue seeps into the cap and clogs the nozzle. Many common makes are too viscous at the outset. My best experiences are with the Locktite and Zap brands.
    I understand that CA glue is quite poisonous. Maybe i'm overly cautios, but there's no way for me to store it in the same place where i keep the food ;-)
    _________
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  17. #16

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    Medical CA has been in use for 40 years to mend cuts. Hardly jumps to food from a closed container. I have a small fridge in my workshop. Bottled water and CA.

  18. #17

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    My big bottles of Bob Smith industries maxi-cure cyanoacrylate have been sitting on my bench for years without issue. Have to clear the opening from time to time as I don't use them that often. No other issues though.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  19. #18

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    interseting Thread I hope some of you members use the UV glue and post back on the results.

  20. #19

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    Well, I got my UV LOCA glue and gave it a try. I had an old nut lying around that had slots that were too deep and somewhat erratic, that I had removed from a guitar before replacing the entire nut, so I figured "why not". I'm fairly impressed with the results. It's easy to apply the glue, then wipe off excess and clean up the area before starting the cure. I tried both a UV flashlight and sunlight, with similar results. It dries hard and clear. I had a very small amount of bone dust in the slots, and I can't really tell whether that helped or hurt, but I don't think it mattered. I have nothing to accurately measure the hardness, but it seems hard enough. There are a couple of types available online. One is advertised for fixing phone screens, and I have no idea whether that works for this application, or indeed whether it's different from what I bought. I got what is advertised for making jewelry, etc, figuring it would cure hard enough, and it does seem to be hard enough. It's certainly not a general-purpose adhesive, and won't work for attaching a fingerboard to a neck because you can't get light inside there, but for anything that can be exposed to light it seems to work well. I have no idea how it would work for holding things together like epoxy does. But I think I'll continue to use it for nut slots, etc, at least until I'm convinced that it doesn't do the job. From a quick and dirty trial, it seems to be a good solution, far less messy than CA and baking soda, and the curing process makes it easier and cleaner. The only question in my mind is long-term hardness, and that won't be evident until time has passed.

  21. #20

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    Thanks for the update. Did you install the nut and is it supporting strings? Be interesting to see if it holds up. With the CA/powder solution the hardness is provided by the bone dust (or whatever dust is deemed durable enough). I'm dubious that dry UV glue is as hard as bone. But I have learned to not rely on intuition in such matters.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    Well, I got my UV LOCA glue and gave it a try. I had an old nut lying around that had slots that were too deep and somewhat erratic, that I had removed from a guitar before replacing the entire nut, so I figured "why not". I'm fairly impressed with the results. It's easy to apply the glue, then wipe off excess and clean up the area before starting the cure. I tried both a UV flashlight and sunlight, with similar results. It dries hard and clear. I had a very small amount of bone dust in the slots, and I can't really tell whether that helped or hurt, but I don't think it mattered. I have nothing to accurately measure the hardness, but it seems hard enough. There are a couple of types available online. One is advertised for fixing phone screens, and I have no idea whether that works for this application, or indeed whether it's different from what I bought. I got what is advertised for making jewelry, etc, figuring it would cure hard enough, and it does seem to be hard enough. It's certainly not a general-purpose adhesive, and won't work for attaching a fingerboard to a neck because you can't get light inside there, but for anything that can be exposed to light it seems to work well. I have no idea how it would work for holding things together like epoxy does. But I think I'll continue to use it for nut slots, etc, at least until I'm convinced that it doesn't do the job. From a quick and dirty trial, it seems to be a good solution, far less messy than CA and baking soda, and the curing process makes it easier and cleaner. The only question in my mind is long-term hardness, and that won't be evident until time has passed.

    Any chance you could link the products you bought? Thanks

  23. #22

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    UV Resin Ultraviolet Curing Solar Cure Sunlight Activated Hard Glue Jewelry Tool | eBay I bought a random UV flashlight, they're very common, hundreds on ebay.

    I haven't mounted the nut, because I don't currently have anything to put it on. I don't agree that the hardness of a CA repair is from bone dust. I think baking soda does increase the hardness, but I'm not convinced that bone dust helps that much. But I haven't really investigated the chemistry involved. And I'm not completely convinced that harder is better. Otherwise we'd be using steel, or at least brass. Hardwood isn't uncommon for making nuts, and the cured UV is much harder than ebony.

  24. #23

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    Not sure that 'hardness' is the right term for a composite made of of CA and the powder of choice. I do think the string is impinging on the tightly packed powder rather than the CA. The CA just provides a binding agent. The concretion with bone or baking soda has worked well. Thinking find wood dust would work. Not sure how it would compare. The UV on the other hand provides durability via the glue itself. No idea how durable it is. Look forward to hearing results from the field.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  25. #24

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    So I am thinking of getting something to harden my wood Bridge and I wonder if UV glue would do it.

  26. #25

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    I agree that the long-term viability of UV resin is unknown. All I know for sure is what I posted above. But it has been in use in dentistry for at least a couple of decades, in an environment that is much harsher than a nut slot, and there have been few failures that I've heard of. If it failed easily from pressure, it would have been well known. The human jaw can exert a lot of pressure on a very small area, and the resin used in dentistry seems about has hard as tooth enamel, which is extremely hard. But I can't say anything for sure yet, because knowing how something will fare after years of use requires years to find out. It's a simple and quick repair, though, so replacing the resin in a slot isn't a big deal if it's necessary.

    I see no reason the UV resin wouldn't work on wood. If the slots are too deep in a bridge, it should fill them as well as nut slots. I've used CA for that, with and without dust, and it works fine, and the CA alone is much harder than the wood, and I really find no difference between the hardness of CA alone and a mix of baking soda or dust. It just takes a lot longer to set without the soda, which reacts almost instantly. I think the UV resin would be much harder than the wood of the saddle, which might or might not present problems in the future. I've had no problems with wooden saddles with CA added in slots.

  27. #26
    I've heard good things about the UV 'dental' nut repairs, but haven't had the need of one yet personally. For folks suffering from the 'sitar' effect, you can buy yourself some time and salvage the gig/tour with a torn off corner of a dollar/euro/yen note shimming the slot....

    PK

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulkogut View Post
    I've heard good things about the UV 'dental' nut repairs, but haven't had the need of one yet personally. For folks suffering from the 'sitar' effect, you can buy yourself some time and salvage the gig/tour with a torn off corner of a dollar/euro/yen note shimming the slot....

    PK
    PK, i did shim my sitareffective slot with a piece of (ordinary) paper for a while, but for permanent cure i much prefer the UV glue solution which has proved most effective. Had i known earlier, i wouldn't have undergone the paper diversion and gone directly to UV glue.
    Last edited by JazzNote; 09-12-2019 at 06:47 AM.
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    JazzNote

  29. #28

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    Just to add a bit more of my experience. I was interested to read in the directions that it's not necessary for all the glue line to be exposed to UV. Apparantly UV light starts a chemical reaction that continues after the light is off, and will propagate throughout until fully cured. I can't remember how long that is.

    The one that we use holds stuff together exactly like epoxy. I know of a set of hinges glued to glass doors that have been in use for over 10 years. The shear force af a 1/4" thick glass door about 2 ft X 3ft is considerable at the hinge. They have a flat surface about 1 sq inch that glues to the glass surface.

  30. #29

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    That's interesting. It never occurred to me that the cure would propagate with only a little UV at one edge. That increases the usefulness by a large factor. I must confess that my experience with it is limited, and I've never done any in-depth research. I'll have to do some of that in the future.