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  1. #1

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    Hey everybody, been lurking for a while finally ready to post... I’ve been playing an epiphone emporer regent and am ready to upgrade so I’m looking at a Vestax D’angelico NYL-2. One is selling locally to me for 2300 so I offered 2k as I see a few around that price. The shop owner told me he had it priced too low (ok this shop is one of the fanciest in the wealthy SF Bay Area and has some crazy expensive stuff) but I thought that was top money for one of these. It’s not in amazing condition either, has a bit of fretwear, pickup is falling a bit, dirty pots etc... so should I offer more money? Or is 2k already too much? Can’t really find any recent comps so thought I’d ask here, but if it’s not ok to ask about value stuff feel free to remove. Thanks for any help, this forum is awesome I’ve learned so much about archtops!!! If there is another 2k ish 17 inch archtop with a floater feel free to recommend as well! Thank you!

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  3. #2

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    I think that the Vestax d’Angelicos are great guitars. I bought a mint one in 2011 for $ 2495.- and never regretted it.

    Check out reverb.com to find current prices, estimate what it would cost to fix everything and deduct this from the price.
    You may come close to a result of $ 2300.- ..........
    _________
    JazzNote

  4. #3

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    I have a Vestax New Yorker Nyl 4 the 18 inch box I bought new in about 2000. It is an amazing guitar and plays and sounds better than many handmade guitars going for more money. Since it is a press top it is not quite like a true carved but mine still has excellent sound and volume. I think price is around the proper figure but frankly no jazz guitars with maybe the exception of Gibsons are selling. I would think you could find one for $2000 but my take is get one that is in really good shape worth the extra. WIth about $2k to play with you can do pretty good for yourself. Might look at a Heritage Golden Eagle and find one but they would be $3 or so if you have the extra funds. Another option is Guild they make excellent guitars. If you stay with Guild, Gibson, or Heritage at least you have a market to sell in the future. Anything boutique or overseas generally will not hold value as well. Just shout out what you see many will give some good advice.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  5. #4

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    I had a 2006 NYL-2 for a few years. Bought it from Ivor Mairants in London for GBP 2,300 new, IIRC. Someone said the PU's from that year onwards are inferior to earlier ones. At least the all-carved NYS-2 special they had in the store sounded much better still. It was 3X more expensive.

    Mine had an ebony tailpiece. Some say the metal stairstep version sounds better. The reason I sold was that a big band project didn't materialize, and a superb ES-175 '59 VOS was available as a trade-in (of course, I had to pay extra). If the big band should still call, my '99 Emperor Regent with a pickup upgrade (e.g. Shadow AZ48) will do fine.

  6. #5
    Thanks for the great answers. Deacon Mark the 18 sounds like fun, and I’m definitely thinking about resale issues. I have a Fano solidbody I’ve been sitting on a little while and found boutique does take a while to sell. The golden eagles look amazing but a little out of my range. I’m only looking on reverb and don’t see any close to 3k. Are there any other sites I should be checking? So far I check reverb, eBay, a few shops I know in the Bay Area and a few famous ones as well as archtop.com. And now I’m checking here too! Thank you!

  7. #6

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    Best regards, k

  8. #7

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    D'Angelico 2000's NYL-2???????????????



    This one is selling used in Japan for JPY207000.00. That converts to about $1945.80 but that's because the USD is in the toilet. Taking a more "usual" exchange rate of $1 = JPY125 converts to $1656. With $150 JapanPost EMS shipping and perhaps 8% import duty you are looking at $1938.48. So, $2000 is more than fair for that NYL-2 that you are considering. But the USD is in the toilet. Wait for it to go back to a rate the Japanese Central Bank is more comfortable with. A strong ¥ does not really help them.

    Stand your ground. Don't forget bruising SF sales tax!

  9. #8
    Thanks! The shop hasn’t called me back to say if the offer has been accepted and it’s been a few days. So they either didn’t accept my offer or forgot. Not planning on offering more, and a little irritated that my 2k offer doesn’t even deserve a phone call. In my continuing research of these I found this one for sale at GC Used D'Angelico NYL-2 Hollow Body Electric Guitar Red | Guitar Center

    someone chopped a hole in it to mount a TV Jones!!! Looks like they are having a hard time getting rid of it at 1630$. I’m a little tempted to get it and fit new pup. But... it’s had a hole cut in it!

  10. #9
    Thanks! The shop hasn’t called me back to say if the offer has been accepted and it’s been a few days. So they either didn’t accept my offer or forgot. Not planning on offering more, and a little irritated that my 2k offer doesn’t even deserve a phone call. In my continuing research of these I found this one for sale at GC Used D'Angelico NYL-2 Hollow Body Electric Guitar Red | Guitar Center

    someone chopped a hole in it to mount a TV Jones!!! Looks like they are having a hard time getting rid of it at 1630$. I’m a little tempted to get it and fit new pup. But... it’s had a hole cut in it!

  11. #10

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    But are they really D'Angelicos?


    Uh-oh...
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  12. #11
    Deacon Mark there’s a heritage eagle ASB on reverb for 1800 I think I’m gonna try and check it out in person. Seems like a good guitar for a good price but would appreciate any help on what to look for. Can’t seem to attach link but it’s 1998 and natural. Thanks! Crossing fingers!

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkknows View Post
    Deacon Mark there’s a heritage eagle ASB on reverb for 1800 I think I’m gonna try and check it out in person. Seems like a good guitar for a good price but would appreciate any help on what to look for. Can’t seem to attach link but it’s 1998 and natural. Thanks! Crossing fingers!
    I saw that guitar and I think if you just deal with Jay Wolf on reverb you will come out a winner. Jay is someone I know personally and he is of the highest order of dealers. I am not sure how much fudge room you have but he has a Natural Eagle at around $2600 and that would be a great guitar. It will hold up and hold it value better than others you might consider. In any event if you deal with Jay tell him I said hello. You will not go wrong and have a fine guitar.
    specializing in repair and setup, does your guitar play like it should?

  14. #13

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    Going up in value?
    Keep in mind they are still Japanese laminated copies of an iconic American guitar.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    But are they really D'Angelicos?


    Uh-oh...
    Yes, just as much as Fender is still a Fender, Ford is Ford, Versace is Versace and Westinghouse is Westinghouse. Sheesh, guys get over it, founders die and their names are sold. :-)

    I personally think the name is appropriate and the styles they make justly pay homage to the originals in form if not in function.
    Regards,

    Gary

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI View Post
    Yes, just as much as Fender is still a Fender, Ford is Ford, Versace is Versace and Westinghouse is Westinghouse. Sheesh, guys get over it, founders die and their names are sold. :-)

    I personally think the name is appropriate and the styles they make justly pay homage to the originals in form if not in function.
    D'Angelicos were hand made one at a time by John D'Angelico. They had solid carved back and side and solid sides all carved and bent by John. They had a neck carved by John.
    Now you can make them in Japan or Korea with laminated tops, backs and sides, spray them with UV cured poly so the finish looks like its 10 ft deep and the grain just glows and stick the best hardware on them and they may sound pretty fine amplified but they are pale imitations of the originals.
    They are like those pseudo-supercars built on VW frames.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRS View Post
    D'Angelicos were hand made one at a time by John D'Angelico. They had solid carved back and side and solid sides all carved and bent by John. They had a neck carved by John.
    Now you can make them in Japan or Korea with laminated tops, backs and sides, spray them with UV cured poly so the finish looks like its 10 ft deep and the grain just glows and stick the best hardware on them and they may sound pretty fine amplified but they are pale imitations of the originals.
    They are like those pseudo-supercars built on VW frames.
    He's dead, his name is sold and likely will be again, as I said get over it. For those who really care about this, boo freaking hoo :-(

    Oh my... what does THIS do to "HIS" name...

    See:

    10-1076 D'Angelico G3.

    This model usually was called "G3" by Dangelico. He didn't write those in his ledger, as he didn't build those himself. Therefore there is no Serial Number. The bodies were bought from outside suppliers like the United/Code company of New Jersey. And only the necks were fitted by Dangelico or one if his apprentices. That way he could offer a more affordable guitar to his customers who couldn't afford a fully carved Dangelico. Jimmy D'aquisto also made a few like that in the beginning of his career.

    The pickups and hardware often came from Guild. Most were natural some were burst. This one is a bit exceptional, seen the New Yorker headstock shape, which was custom ordered for a New York Jazz player.

    PS, the Code / United built bodies were "laminated" HOLY SHIT!!! THE MASTER ALLOWED THIS??? :-) Having to eat and wanting HIS name to be available to more players must be a sin.

    For all of you anal D'A lovers, look up "D'Angelico Code / United guitars.
    Last edited by GNAPPI; 09-07-2019 at 07:50 AM.
    Regards,

    Gary

  18. #17

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    Regarding the OP's original post, there's recent activity regarding the MIJ D'Angelico models... It seems as if D'Angelico of New Jersey / New York is looking to fix this. Whether this becomes a problem for owners of "counterfeit" gits like copies of Rickenbacker gits remains to be seen.

    https://ia803005.us.archive.org/32/i...514030.1.0.pdf
    Regards,

    Gary

  19. #18

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    Seriously Gary? "Anal" DA lovers. Kind of close to "asshole" don't you think? A poor choice of words if you want a friendly discussion about the issue, IMO.

    Having practiced law full time for about 15 years, i can say with certainty that there is "legal" and there is "just" and sometimes the two are mutually exclusive.

    It is true that John D'Angelico's use of his name on the laminate guitars was probably not the best idea for the long term value of his trademark. It is also true that after his death, the various owners of the trademark did not put the name on manufactured guitars of any sort until the 1990's when it was perceived to be a valuable marketing tool.. But that trademark should have belonged to Jimmy D'Aquisto who was arguably swindled out of it by a less than scrupulous attorney. And the sad story regarding that swindle makes some of us less than happy about what has become of the brand.

    It is a globalist world today and USA guitar branding may be coming to an end. Fender and Martin make guitars in Mexico (for a time Fender licensed Japan made Fenders as well). Who knows if the current owners of Gibson will start foreign production of that brand (their predecessor in interest having already done so with the Epiphone brand). What the Ferolito's have done with the D'Angelico name is no different than what GHS did and arguably is the best and highest use of the brand name. D'Angelicos built by John D'Angelico have (and probably will continue to have) tremendous value, just as Pre-CBS Fenders and Pre-war Martins have tremendous value regardless of the Mexican made guitars of those brands having hit the market. Rare instruments of a high quality will command a price. At least until nobody plays the guitar anymore.

    The fight over the Japanese infringement of the brand name is, IMO, simply a negotiation for royalties. The lawsuit will be settled. And none of this is worth calling folks out over on an Internet forum.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  20. #19

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    I was responding to...

    "D'Angelicos were hand made one at a time by John D'Angelico. They had solid carved back and side and solid sides all carved and bent by John. They had a neck carved by John."

    Which is as a matter of uncomfortable fact incorrect.

    I don't think Anal is synonymous with asshole at all, some may be anal about brushing their teeth regularly that doesn't make them an asshole does it? I don't think I need more examples on my usage.

    I'm generally pretty careful how I use our language, as we're an international community. As it is, I think anal is a fair description above, if offense was taken / perceived as asshole, it wasn't meant that way.

    PS, everything else you said, I'm in complete agreement with.
    Regards,

    Gary

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI View Post
    I was responding to...

    "D'Angelicos were hand made one at a time by John D'Angelico. They had solid carved back and side and solid sides all carved and bent by John. They had a neck carved by John."

    Which is as a matter of uncomfortable fact incorrect.

    I don't think Anal is synonymous with asshole at all, some may be anal about brushing their teeth regularly that doesn't make them an asshole does it? I don't think I need more examples on my usage.

    I'm generally pretty careful how I use our language, as we're an international community. As it is, I think anal is a fair description above, if offense was taken / perceived as asshole, it wasn't meant that way.

    PS, everything else you said, I'm in complete agreement with.
    Calling someone "anal" does not mean calling them an a-hole, period. "Anal" in the sense of extreme pickiness or attention to detail is a shortening of "anal retentive" or "anal compulsive." It comes from Freud's theory of infant development, which posits that children pass through an "oral" phase (breastfeeding/sticking stuff in their mouths), and an "anal" phase (focus on the other end, coincident with toilet training). Freud theorized that symptoms that we now call OCD are neuroses caused by problems in toilet training. So calling someone anal is the same thing as calling them obsessive. Because Freud has mostly disappeared from discourse (mostly for good reasons), some of the vocabulary that persists has been divorced from its context, and apparently can cause confusion.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 09-10-2019 at 01:23 PM.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    Calling someone "anal" does not mean calling them an a-hole, period. "Anal" in the sense of extreme pickiness or attention to detail is a shortening of "anal retentive" or "anal compulsive." It comes from Freud's theory of infant development, which posits that children pass through an "oral" phase (breastfeeding/sticking stuff in their mouths), and an "anal" phase (focus on the other end, coincident with toilet training). Freud theorized that symptoms that we now call OCD are neuroses caused by problems in toilet training. So calling someone anal is the same thing as calling them obsessive. Because Freud has mostly disappeared discourse (mostly for good reasons), some of the vocabulary that persists has been divorced from its context, and apparently can confusion.

    John
    I think using the term "Type A personality" or "obsessive" would be a better choice of words in a debate (where emotions often swell) as there is, even in Freudian theory, a negative connotation to being "Anal retentive".

    Back to the topic, if the lawsuit against Vestax results in a price increase of those guitars, the value of used examples should rise.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    I think using the term "Type A personality" or "obsessive" would be a better choice of words in a debate (where emotions often swell) as there is, even in Freudian theory, a negative connotation to being "Anal retentive".

    Back to the topic, if the lawsuit against Vestax results in a price increase of those guitars, the value of used examples should rise.
    None of these 3 is an exact synonym for the others. Yours may or may not be better choice of words because of the potential for misunderstanding. I was once in a meeting where I explained to colleagues that I couldn't produce some statistics they had asked me for because the raw data they gave me to analyze was not normalized. They yelled at me for accusing them of not being normal. So if that can happen, I suppose anything can. I only responded to this thread because I'm a bit, uh, anal, about matters of and have a long-standing interest in vocabulary; I try not to be, uh niggardly with the word knowledge I've aquired:-)

    Anyway, it seems like the most likely effect of the lawsuit would be to push the Vestax guitars even further into the gray or even black market. Tough to say what effect that would have on prices for ones that are already in the US -- that really depends on how badly people want them. If nothing else, the lawsuit Gary posted provides some interesting historical detail.

    John

  24. #23

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    There is a limited market for them, but they do seem to enjoy a good reputation. As time goes by there might be more downward price pressure from the new D'Angelico copies (which are nice, but not quite as good).

    Legalities and moralities aside, the "lawsuit era" guitars of various brands seem to get a price bump because of the notoriety. The Takamine copies of Martins are another example, and they're pretty good guitars, too.