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This morning I saw news that the CITES committee will sign an exemption that permits musical instruments containing rosewood to be transported across borders without being seized.
CITES decided that there was never after all a sustainability issue associated with this traffic.
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08-28-2019 08:11 AM
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It will give musicians some peace of mind when they travel.
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It will also permit the purchase and sale of guitars across borders without fear of seizure...for the first time in about three or four years. This should be a boon for the guitar market.
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CITES exempts musical instruments from rosewood permit system | News | The Strad
Unfortunately, the exemption does not appear to apply to Brazilian Rosewood.
Which means I still can't take my reissue Martin 00-21GE out of the country without significant hassle. It has Indian rosewood back and sides--no problem. But the headstock has a thin veneer of Brazilian rosewood. No tonal benefit, but it keeps that guitar off the road.
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As a Canadian who frequently travels to the USA, I was really excited when I heard about the exemption earlier today. Now that we have learned that the exemption doesn’t apply to Brazilian rosewood, I am very disappointed. So many vintage Gibsons have Brazilian rosewood bridges and fingerboards. I guess I still can’t take my favorite guitars across the border with me. And, if I ever decide to sell any of them, I’ll have to find a Canadian buyer.
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Aren't there travel documents for guitars that were made with engendered woods? Guitar passports so to speak.
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I don't think you necessarily would have to find a Canadian buyer, but apply for an export permit at the cites office in your country & an import permit in the buyers country.
Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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I have tried to figure this out before and it seems far too complex and bureaucratic. It appears that, if you can get all the forms filled out and get a travel certificate (and pay the associated fee), you will still have to enter and exit the US through one of a small number of “designated ports”. Unfortunately, none of designated ports would work for most of my travels. It just seems unnecessarily complicated to someone who just wants to take their old guitar across the border for personal use. This article speaks to the complexity of the travel permit Have Guitar Passport, Will Travel | Fretboard Journal Originally Posted by Tal_175
Keith
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Yes, I guess that could be done. I thought the recently announced exemption was going to change all that, but apparently not for Brazilian. I guess I’ll just keep all my old guitars and save myself the trouble. Originally Posted by JazzNote
Keith
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why exactly aren't older things like a 40's bridge from a Gibson exempt anyway?
I could see newer made things, or just the wood itself, but what is gained by banning those old items?
maybe I need to go back and re-read the treaties again.
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I get that they can tell if a piece of wood is rosewood. But how do they know what country it comes from, is the difference between Indian and Brazillian that great?
Last edited by dwparker; 08-29-2019 at 02:14 AM.
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I've heard they gonna place a guitar expert at every custom around the borders, training in wood recognition will be provided free of charge for all qualified candidates. Great job opoortunity for a working guitarist- take a morning shift and free to play gigs at night!
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Exempting 'old' or pre existing stuff just means people find they have masses of whatever it is out back...Hong Kong banned the Ivory trade but exempted pre 1970 items to enable businesses to 'sell their existing stock' - there are whole streets of cavernous Ivory shops selling everything you can think of, from chopsticks to life size tigers made out of the stuff - they'll give you a certificate confirming they had the Ivory before 1970, and even carve you something to order... Originally Posted by wintermoon
20 to 30,000 African elephants are killed every year, almost all the Ivory is shipped from Mombasa or Dar Es Salaam straight to China.
Off topic pic of an Ebony Figure - bought in East Africa in early 1980's cos I liked the way the woodworm gave up when they hit the black wood...
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Originally Posted by dwparker
Yes, the figuring can be quite different, but not in all cases.
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I smuggled my rosewood tele into China OK. They asked me what in the case, and I said cello, they let me in with no hassle.
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I am in the market for a Gibson archtop, either an L-7 or and L-12, from the mid-30s to late 40s. As most of you know, these guitars have a Brazilian Rosewood fingerboard and Mother of Pearl (I assume) inlay. I am in Canada and there are precious few guitars like that here. So I have been calling CITES offices in both the US and Canada, trying to nail down exactly what I need to do. Here is what I have figured out so far.
Brazilian rosewood is indeed the culprit. If it were not for this wood, we probably wouldn't even be talking about CITES. However, for my purposes, it IS LEGAL to buy a guitar such as I have described and have it shipped to Canada, as long as the appropriate forms are filled out. The American exporter has to submit a form in order to get an export permit, and the Canadian importer has to do the reverse. On the surface, it looks not all that complicated but the forms can be a little awkard and they take time to process. I don't have my notes right in front of me, but IIRC, the exporter needs an extra permit for the Mother of Pearl. I will check on that.
The relevant goverment departments in both the US and Canada assured me that it was at least legal! There are a lot of stories flying around (true or not) about siezures of instruments or huge fines. I am no longer worried about this. I think that the worst that could happen is that you fill out the application for the permit incorrectly and they make you do it over again. That would be a pain, but it wouldn't involve jail time, lol.
I heard that lots of people ship instruments with Brazilian rosewood across borders and they have no hassle. Maybe, but I sure as hell would not want to be the poor schmuck who DOES get checked. The penalties are pretty severe. And they probably wouldn't let you play blues on your confiscated Bazillion Rosewood guitar while you sat in your cell.
Here is another wrinkle that I have not, as of yet, ironed out. When you buy a vintage guitar, most dealers offer a 24-48 hour return. I can see this becoming more difficult but I have not yet got an answer on that.
In any case, I want to learn this process as well I can so that I can try to convince a dealer who might have a guitar I want but doesn't want to ship internationally. Let's continue to add whatever we can regarding this and maybe make it into an information page on this site.
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Having decided what you're looking for, do you have a luthier who'll be checking it out ? You'll need one to do your initial setup at the very least ! If not make that as much a priority as locating the instrument.
Just a heads-up and good luck !
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