The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #201

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    Gabor ...

    To my ear, the two Eastman's had less treble. A very nice "deep" jazz sound certainly.

    The Epi had a more balanced tone, more even across the board. And with enough years with guitars and amps, that's easily adjusted to taste.

    Three very nice guitars. I'd be happy with any of them I'm sure.

    All pretty of course ...

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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  3. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP
    I was surprised how much darker the AR810CE turned out to be
    Me too.

    I did not realize that until now, because I always hear the acoustic sound together with the amped, and the 810 is more is way more trebly than the other two.
    It may or may not related, but the other two is stringed with 12 roundwound (D'Angelico Electrozinc, a must try), but the 810 has TI flatwound, and 14 and 18 on E and B.

    However the roundwound vs flatwound still does not explain the more darkness difference on E and B.compared on the 810 to the other two.
    I've tried to set the tone pot to the very same on the 371 and 810 (approx 75 % to the dark) but it is hard because 810 has hidden pot. Also the condensers may be different (cheap) and on little movement count a lot on that area.

    Maybe it would more wise and useful to set the tone pots to get similar sound instead of similar position. Anyway the Epi even do not have tone pot, so one problem less :-)

    Now I plan to do the very same demo in pure acoustic setting with a acceptable mike.
    Last edited by Gabor; 08-16-2019 at 03:51 AM.

  4. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by rNeil
    Gabor ...

    The Epi had a more balanced tone, more even across the board. And with enough years with guitars and amps, that's easily adjusted to taste.

    Three very nice guitars. I'd be happy with any of them I'm sure.

    All pretty of course ...
    Thanks for the feedback. You may have right, I missed that "balanced" thing so far when I am evaluating a guitar tone. I usually focus one critical point, what instantly rules out a guitar for me: the high E string sound in frets from 5 to 15, which must be "singing" instead of being plinky. Everywhere can be heard and read that wider strings may help on that, I have opposite experience: A a bad guitar will remain always plinky regrdless of using 11, or even 14 E string, a good instrument will sing with 12 E.

    The Epi was a bit plinky, but after my luthier polished the frets it literally reborn (polished from the "factory 1000" as he said up to 10 000), plinkiness gone, interesting, so I I loved it, until I acquired this used 371...

  5. #204

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    IME the 'plinkiness' comes from having the action a little too low. Raising the bridge saddle just a bit usually helps with that. It doesn't often take much, perhaps half a turn of the wheel(s), more or less, depending on the setup. Adding a little bit of relief via the truss rod can also help sometimes. It's a complicated interaction situation, and can sometimes require extensive experimentation, changing one thing and then another, back and forth, to find the perfect setup for you.

  6. #205

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    Nice to read the experiences here. Me wonders if Joe Pass or Kenny Burrell or any of the other greats obsessed over strings, action, bridge relief, pots, neck width, etc. as much as we do here. Or if they just picked a Gibson off the rack and said, "Looks good, how much is it? Can I buy it on credit? (LOL)"

    Not that it isn't fun to obsess about these things.

    I would guess the lower cost guitar most similar to a classic Gibson is the Epi 175, which I don't think they're making anymore but should be available used. All Epis and in fact all Peerless have a similar neck to me, which I would not describe as a baseball bat. Personally I find them very comfortable.

    Wondering if the Cremona and Leela have an Epi Classic '57 pickup like the Sunset? It's not a bad pickup at all and definitely gets that dark, smooth Burrellesque sound.

    I won't comment on the Eastmans. The ones I've played were well-built and did seem to have a bright sound.

  7. #206

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    I am find this thread to be interesting. The Peerless Leela is an instrument I had not been aware of. I am thinking with the maple top that perhaps it would be less acoustic sounding and perhaps have more sustain than an Eastman AR503CE, and perhaps be a better choice for those situations where the ambient room volume levels are higher.

    In general I find I am often confused when it comes to comments here on this forum that pertain to sound. I find I am often not quite sure if writers are referencing acoustic unplugged sound or plugged in electric sound. I suppose with a somewhat neutral sounding pickup the are the same, but I am not often not sure what the writer is trying to convey.

  8. #207

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    I am wondering how string spacing at the bridge compares. (Peerless Leela vs Eastman AR503CE) I saw an earlier thread where someone did not like Peerless spacing at the bridge, but I was not sure what guitar it was or if it was too narrow or too wide.

  9. #208

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    My 503 arrived this afternoon, and all I can say is "wow". I would rate this above the 371 all day long. I'll get around to a NGD post hopefully this week.

  10. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    My 503 arrived this afternoon, and all I can say is "wow". I would rate this above the 371 all day long. I'll get around to a NGD post hopefully this week.

    This reminded me of a couple little things I looked at with my AR503CE. I got mine about the first year they were released.

    I put in some card stock between the pickup and the mounting rings to stop pickup mechanical noise.

    I have found with that style tailpiece it helps to make sure the ebony cover is tight against the tailpiece. If loose you can get unwanted noise. On mine the screws were not tight and I was able to easily tighten the screws, after taking the tailpiece off.

    I often question the soft supports between the pick guard and the guitar top. I did shorten them slightly so that under normal circumstances the supports are not touching the guitar top. I thought that improved the sound. (I do not normally plant my hand on the pick guard. I might touch it just slightly with my pinky on occasion)

  11. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    Me too.

    I did not realize that until now, because I always hear the acoustic sound together with the amped, and the 810 is more is way more trebly than the other two.
    It may or may not related, but the other two is stringed with 12 roundwound (D'Angelico Electrozinc, a must try), but the 810 has TI flatwound, and 14 and 18 on E and B.

    However the roundwound vs flatwound still does not explain the more darkness difference on E and B.compared on the 810 to the other two.
    I've tried to set the tone pot to the very same on the 371 and 810 (approx 75 % to the dark) but it is hard because 810 has hidden pot. Also the condensers may be different (cheap) and on little movement count a lot on that area.

    Maybe it would more wise and useful to set the tone pots to get similar sound instead of similar position. Anyway the Epi even do not have tone pot, so one problem less :-)

    Now I plan to do the very same demo in pure acoustic setting with a acceptable mike.
    That might explain it. Since the Epi has no tone control and the Eastmans were rolled back it’s hard to draw much of a conclusion. I have an early AR810CE with no tone control, so I darken the tone by rolling back the volume pot.

  12. #211

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    I picked up a used 810 several months ago. It was way brighter than my Soloway, but I was able to use the EQ settings on my amps to get a beautiful sound for chord melody. It’ll never be as dark as the Loon, but it sounds beautiful. I actually thought of upgrading the pickup to a hand wound KA, but I am very happy with the stock. I also thought it was going to be too big and uncomfortable. But, it’s actually quite nice on the lap. I bought it on a whim for quite a bit less that the OP’s $1500 budget out the door in great condition. I am thrilled I grabbed it.
    Attached Images Attached Images Eastman Jazz Guitar Recommendations-2d18eeeb-d6f4-4f86-a7c0-99a5534fcf40-jpg Eastman Jazz Guitar Recommendations-270d6396-6db3-4235-934b-5d64cd60911f-jpg 

  13. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    As OP mentioned chord melody setting, and I have two Eastmans and also an Epi Joe Pass, so I took a big breath and created my very first YouTube demo. (do not expect too much, I am not a professional musician, just picking as hobby) Still, hopefully the sound of the instruments will came through.

    The Epi has upgraded with a Benedetto PAF (just the neck) and tone control and switch completely wired out.

    What I noticed after reviewing the video:

    - There is a big "darkness" difference, it shocks in either way, so it worth to repeat the very same guitar to allow accommodating its sound, and found it lovable.

    - IMHO both Eastmans have some mojo, but Epi lacks of it, despite the Benedetto upgrade.

    Good demo.

    I listened the other day and stopped myself from replying as I was listening with those cheap little sony headphones (which are actually about 100 times better than my laptop speakers, and 458 times better than my phones 1/8" woofer, but only about 20 times better than my earbuds... the crap people listen with these days).

    Now I'm listening with my reference monitors, Kali LP-8's, in the sweet spot listening position of a treated room. My favorite is the 2nd guitar, the red one. That is a beautiful tone. Is that a floater pickup? (I'm not hearing the imbalance that was mentioned).

    Also it's my favorite as far as looks go. Reading back now to subsequent posts, I guess this is an Eastman 810?

    Skip, that guitar and a black tuxedo, you'll be all set.
    Last edited by fep; 08-17-2019 at 05:40 PM.

  14. #213

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    I would be concerned about that Blonde Eastman with a built in humbucker. Eastman Archtops are fairly thin tops that I'm not sure can support a built in humbucker? I could be wrong since I'm no luthier, but I would definitely get a luthier to check I out before buying it.

  15. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    I would be concerned about that Blonde Eastman with a built in humbucker. Eastman Archtops are fairly thin tops that I'm not sure can support a built in humbucker? I could be wrong since I'm no luthier, but I would definitely get a luthier to check I out before buying it.
    Every arch top I've ever purchased via the internet I've always added a luthier inspection as part of its cost. GC has a 30 day no questions asked return period.

  16. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Every arch top I've ever purchased via the internet I've always added a luthier inspection as part of its cost.
    Same here. I have to add that is not only inspection, but always a fret polishing and sometimes leveling too, I do not know what else the luthier does with them but it is magic. Despite I can set the truss rod and archtop bridge myself, the instruments usually reborn after he touches them.

  17. #216

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    I really like the sound of the Eastman Jazz Elite series from Guitars 'n Jazz. Mine in the 17" version. The rim depth is 2.5", but still sounds pretty full. Here's a goofy demo of me playing it:
    Note: I put in a Lindy Fralin Pure PAF, but they come with the very decent Lollar Imperial.


  18. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Every arch top I've ever purchased via the internet I've always added a luthier inspection as part of its cost. GC has a 30 day no questions asked return period.
    Actually now it is 45 days for non "vintage" used guitars. GC defines vintage as 25 years or older. Only three days for vintage. Really, a nice option to buy used with little risk. My last one I had shipped right to my local store, opened it up right there.

  19. #218

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    Lots of Eastmans have set humbuckers. A thin carved top isn't really an issue, as the part where the pickup goes is thicker, and doesn't vibrate much, if at all. I wouldn't worry about that much, but of course there are other possible issues.

  20. #219

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    In the southwestern corner of Indiana, I don't get much chance to see/try interesting gear that is not PRS, Gibson, Fender, Mesa... A guitar tech at store that I hardly ever visit texted me, out of the blue, to let me know they now carry Eastman and Henriksen. I finally got over there today, and WOW! I have never had the opportunity to try either, and I was thoroughly impressed. I played 4 Eastmans - 2 acoustic, a 16" archtop and a solid body. All were amazing. I wish I were in the market for something - looks to be quite a bang for your buck. I knew I'd like the Henriksen. (I was right.)

    Pretty sure the Archtop was an AR503CE. The solidbody was a Les Paul style. Is it called a '59?

    Sorry to be very late to the party on these brands. Very cool stuff.
    Last edited by ScottM; 03-12-2020 at 05:46 PM.

  21. #220

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    I think the AR503CE is just great. On my wishlist. I'm not an expert on the Les Pauls. If you go to major guitar show, there's hundreds of those, all "unique" and "custom". No discernible difference from a 3 ft distance. Sure, tonewoods, build quality, neck profile and electronics may vary, but it's still a plank compared to an archtop. There's nothing my EUR 150 Harley Benton LP clone can't do that a pricier one can.

  22. #221

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    Well, of course, everyone has their own preferences, but my Eastman AR403ce through my Henriksen JazzAmp 112 sounds exactly like I want it to!

  23. #222

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    I love my 503CE and my Henriksen Jazz Amp 12" !

  24. #223

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    Well, I've had my Eastman AR580CE for about two weeks now and I must say I'm very impressed with both the craftsmanship and tone of this guitar. Beautiful guitar and beautiful sound. The neck is just right for my smallish hands. Add to all that I'm really having a ball learning jazz guitar.

    This Eastman has far exceeded my expectations. The bang for the buck from this guitar is huge. Is there anyone else out there as impressed with this or other Eastman guitars as I am?

    I mean, this AR580CE sounds and plays every bit as good as the Gibson L5CES I owned.

    Don't get me wrong, I've said in past posts I want another high quality American made jazz guitar and that hasn't changed. I will own another top quality American jazz archtop, maybe next year. I might go for one of the boutique customs, a used Gibson icon, or perhaps a Heritage. But in the meantime my Eastman AR580CE will way more than suffice.

    Anyone else have an Eastman they like as well as I like this one?

    A truly amazing guitar even at three times the price...

  25. #224

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    I have three Eastman guitars currently (T184MX, DM1, and E080). I've also had three of their traditional archtop guitars that I have sold. My T184MX has received a ton of play time the past few weeks as it has been a faithful friend while working from home. I practice all of my manouche stuff on it during the day so my wife doesn't get mad at the volume, and then practice those same lines and songs on the DM1.

    I have been extremely impressed with the quality of every Eastman I have owned. I am a big fan, and hold no qualms about it. For the price paid, they are truly a wonderful value. I picked up the DM1 and T184MX right before things started getting funny, and I am so happy to have them in my home with me right now.

  26. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    Well, I've had my Eastman AR580CE for about two weeks now and I must say I'm very impressed with both the craftsmanship and tone of this guitar. Beautiful guitar and beautiful sound. The neck is just right for my smallish hands. Add to all that I'm really having a ball learning jazz guitar. But this Eastman has far exceeded my expectations. The bang for the buck from this guitar is huge. Is there anyone else out there as impressed with this or other Eastman guitars as I am? I mean, this AR580CE sounds and plays every bit as good as the Gibson L5CES I owned. Don't get me wrong, I've said in past posts I want another high quality American made jazz guitar and that hasn't changed. I will own another top quality American jazz archtop, maybe next year. I might go for one of the boutique customs, a used Gibson icon, or perhaps a Heritage. But in the meantime my Eastman AR580CE will way more than suffice. Anyone else have an Eastman they like as well as I like this one? A truly amazing guitar even at three times the price.
    You actually make a good point and as much as I love Gibson L5s the real thing in the end, one can do quite well without ever getting near the coin to purchase an L5. In truth the sound is in the player and the hands. In particular certain player may use a specific guitar that does point to his sound. Just think of Barney Kessel and is old ES 350. It is pretty easy to get close to his sound with the right guitar and pickups if one was going for that, but in the end, Barney made Barney's sound.

    I think if really has to do with the law of diminishing returns. At some point depending on what you are after it very possible to get tremendous sound and never do near an expensive guitar. I bought a D'angelico Excel in 1980 when I was 18 years old because i thought they looked cool. Then I had my dad's album of The Sound of the Johnny Smith guitar, and he is seated in a chair with this beautiful D'angelico New Yorker. Well I bought an Excel but let me tell you 40 years later I still cannot sound or play much like Johnny Smith, but the journey has been fun,

    I think Eastman's provide an excellent guitar for the money. One could be on the look out and find a great jazz guitar with all the trim even for not a huge amount of money. In my case I like acoustic carved archtops and an Eastman 910 would fit the bill. I wish they made an 18 inch version I might be buy one if they did. Funny Eastman guitar right now are probably pretty much run of the mill, just like a lower priced Gibson was in the 40's and 50's. So maybe 60 years from now Eastman's will be like a nice L7 right now, a top notch winner and even vintage vibe. I won't live long enough to see that so buy one and enjoy.... good move.

    I might add with this COVID 19 we have never seen that in the guitar market. It may a quite a effect on what happens in China in the coming months and years and the repercussions of rest of world. I think your move on the 580 was great and a great buy.