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  1. #1

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    Just saw this on Facebook, not sure what led up to it!


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Could Gibson not have given those instruments to schools? Any effort to encourage music instruction in the US would be better than wanton destruction, no?

    What am I missing?

  4. #3

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    It happens more often than you think.

    Back in the late 70's when I had a pickup truck. Our local Fender rep. asked me to take a number of amplifiers to the dump. He went along with me to confirm that they did go to the dump. Well they did go to the dump but never left my truck. The only thing that left my truck was some real trash.

    Returns, damaged in shipment, flaws, bugs in the wood, whatever. It's cheaper to trash them rather than ship back for rework.

    I'll bet these are counterfeits ordered destroyed.

  5. #4

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    Could have given them to needy children with the logo removed. But that's Henry J's baby and they are excising what are reminders of him.

    I guess the surviving few that were sold-surely some liked them and some were sold-would be worth a few millions of $ in 2079. Everything bad that happened to Gibson in a year ending in 9 turned out to be good for collectors...

    Most collectible Gibson ever...
    Great Deals with Great Folks: max52 (Guild-Benedetto Artist Award); prickards (Ribbecke GC Halfling); Cincy2 (Comins Concert)

  6. #5
    what I heard was that these guitars were part of the shipments of robot tuners that the stores couldn't sell and gibson bought them back and destroyed them in order to collect on some type of insurance. Then they figured they'd get the publicity by posting this video. I think it's backfiring. They could have sanded the logo off and donated them to schools. I'm pretty horrified and can't see myself ever buying a new gibson again.

  7. #6
    Yeah, seems to be the fate of the Firebird X model, the pinnacle of the electronic guitar, built-in effects, usb etc, robot tuners Gibson era.

    After the hard to follow play authentic video, this does an excellent job in raising the stakes for this.. company.I wonder what will they come up with next..

  8. #7

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    Virtually every builder destroys some duds or products they consider to be mistakes. They are not a charity and their first priority has to be protecting their brand. Somewhere I have photos of a whole batch of finished bodies in a trash can outside our old house in Portland. There was nothing structurally wrong. They just has a design feature that I hated once they were complete. It was my mistake so I ate the cost rather than having our name on guitars that I didn't like.
    My CD "Bare Handed" is available as a download at Bandcamp.com
    http://jimsoloway.bandcamp.com/album/bare-handed

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    Virtually every builder destroys some duds or products they consider to be mistakes. They are not a charity and their first priority has to be protecting their brand. Somewhere I have photos of a whole batch of finished bodies in a trash can outside our old house in Portland. There was nothing structurally wrong. They just has a design feature that I hated once they were complete. It was my mistake so I ate the cost rather than having our name on guitars that I didn't like.
    they could have had the names filed off and donated them.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    they could have had the names filed off and donated them.
    They could have but it's almost certainly worth more them to destroy them. If nothing else it makes a very positive public statement: "We're the new Gibson and we refuse to be associated with this abomination". I see that as a very positive thing.
    Last edited by Jim Soloway; 07-31-2019 at 04:47 PM.
    My CD "Bare Handed" is available as a download at Bandcamp.com
    http://jimsoloway.bandcamp.com/album/bare-handed

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    They could have but it's almost certainly worth more them to destroy them. If nothing else it majes a very positive public statement: "We're the new Gibson and we refuse to be associated with this abomination". I see that as a very positive thing.
    Sorry, as someone who's spent time in inner city schools as well as arts programs watching the horrible condition of musical instruments they have, i strongly disagree with your assertion that this is a positive statement and so do 99% of the commenters on the youtube posting.

    DONATING THESE INSTRUMENTS TO CHARITY is the strongest public statement they could have made.

  12. #11

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    This type of thing happens across indusries. For example, my sil used to work for Phillips. When a certain kind of led bulb was coming in, certain models of incandescant bulbs had to go. And they went in dozens of 40 yard dumpsters. No donations, no employees can have or buy them. To the dump. Pretty typical I would imagine.

    That said, to do it in this fashion and let it be publicized is beyond stupid.

  13. #12

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    Is there little wonder why the planet's in such a mess! What a waste of resources!
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  14. #13

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    Some of those don't look too bad !!!
    I think The Who was better at destroying guitars

  15. #14

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    I worked in manufacturing PC's and peripherals and we did the same thing... crush and discard. I can see the gits being donated and then sold on Ebay.

    In the "Let no good deed go unpunished" department... A local donut store at the end of the day used to donate (same day) donuts to local needy till they got sued because one got a belly ache. Donuts and cheap wine don't mix.

    From then on they threw them out on the morning the dumpster arrived to prevent "diners" from going in the dumpster.
    Regards,

    Gary

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by wengr View Post
    >>SNIP<<

    That said, to do it in this fashion and let it be publicized is beyond stupid.
    Of course no employee of Gibson with a grudge, passerby, or the trash contractor could not possibly have taken that pic?
    Regards,

    Gary

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    Sorry, as someone who's spent time in inner city schools as well as arts programs watching the horrible condition of musical instruments they have, i strongly disagree with your assertion that this is a positive statement and so do 99% of the commenters on the youtube posting.

    DONATING THESE INSTRUMENTS TO CHARITY is the strongest public statement they could have made.
    I'm not about to blame Gibson for the state of inner city schools nor am I about to assign them the responsibility for fixing that. Investors sunk about $70 million into trying to revive a dying company. For that kind of commitment they bought the right to make decisions that they believe are in the best interest of their company.
    My CD "Bare Handed" is available as a download at Bandcamp.com
    http://jimsoloway.bandcamp.com/album/bare-handed

  18. #17

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    Gibson could have donated the guitars to their own charitable foundation and/or to one of their many associated partners.

    Gibson Foundation

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler View Post
    Gibson could have donated the guitars to their own charitable foundation and/or to one of their many associated partners.

    Gibson Foundation
    Or maybe they had to get rid of them to settle the dispute over their discontinuation of the self-tuning mechanism? We really don't know any of the details other than this is a decision that they made because they thought it would help the company in its bid to survive..

    This is a distressed company that was kept alive by creditors who poured in a lot more money to try save the money they had loaned the previous owners. If they manage to save the company they deserve a lot of credit. If they fail, well at least they paid in advance for the right to try.

    And 2B, the person who said that is now long gone, leaving a mountain of forfeited debt behind him.
    My CD "Bare Handed" is available as a download at Bandcamp.com
    http://jimsoloway.bandcamp.com/album/bare-handed

  20. #19

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    those robot firebirds were 5,500 $$$$ guitars in 2010!!!...imagine the guys that bought them seeing this pic!!

    in 20 years there will be a custom shop reissue


    awful stuff

    cheers

  21. #20
    Don't think so cause there was a lot of technology involved. I remember reading their full price sales were presumably in the single digits.

  22. #21

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    Telecasters would survive that.

  23. #22

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    Is it possible that these are confiscated chibsons ?

  24. #23

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  25. #24

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    Man, the Firebird is one of those guitars that I have never tried, but always wanted to.
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  26. #25

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    I never liked the Firebird X, but this goes a bit too far.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  27. #26

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    The Firebird X was inoperable without a proprietary battery. A fresh battery was good for about two hours play time. I’m sure that decreased significantly after a couple of years. That’s fine for throwaway products, but not an expensive guitar.

  28. #27

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    May be why Gibson's are so expensive!

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI View Post
    Of course no employee of Gibson with a grudge, passerby, or the trash contractor could not possibly have taken that pic?
    Do you really think that the covert plan was to line them all up in nice lines and then have heavy equipment run over them out in broad daylight?

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway View Post
    I'm not about to blame Gibson for the state of inner city schools nor am I about to assign them the responsibility for fixing that. Investors sunk about $70 million into trying to revive a dying company. For that kind of commitment they bought the right to make decisions that they believe are in the best interest of their company.
    Very surprised to hear you say that Jim. And you're presenting a strawman argument. I never blamed gibson for the state of inner city schools, nor did I assign then any responsibility. But I do still have one of your guitars on the cover of my book...

  31. #30

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    I like how that former employee described the Firebird X as 'non-upgradable,' and 'too proprietary', and basically 'the bodies weren't even re-usable ' , and then says ' but I left those details out and just published the vid and the facts to see what people would say "....

    .......gee.......what did you think people were going to say ?

  32. #31

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    Maybe they just wanted to relic them enmasse.

  33. #32

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    Relicing Explained





    Relicing is Art




    What is Guitar Relicing?

  34. #33

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    there is also a video of workers destroying es 335 in the former Memphis Gibson factory

  35. #34

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    Great video. Nothing like listening to a couple of uneducated, blue collar bumpkins discuss something that is way over their heads. Here's the deal folks. It's Gibson's friggin' product, and it's Gibson's friggin' property.

    In product development companies, we have something called "scrap". But don't take my word for it, look it up. So if you don't like it, then start your own product company. That is - if you have the vision, talent, drive, and funds.

    So, there's really no need for all this butt hurt, social justice, warrior-ing over a bunch of fugly solid body guitars for Chrissakes.

    What poor kids really need is a solid STEM education, not solid body guitars painted in bird shit blue, lol.

    All IMO, of course.


  36. #35

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    The Firebird X has to be one of the more ghastly creations of Gibson but it's an awful sight to see a whole lot of guitars being destroyed. As someone who loves guitars of ALL kinds, it's not something I enjoy watching.

    It's like on "Top Gear" where nice old cars would inevitably get destroyed.
    As much as I liked other aspects of the show, the senseless destruction is hard to watch.

  37. #36

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    This hurts much more:




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  38. #37

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    Couldn't Pete Townshend have handled that problem for them cheaper?
    "But if they all play like me, then who am I?" (Lester Young)

  39. #38

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    I find that second video with the ES models more disturbing
    "Oh, those jazz guys are just making that stuff up!" - Homer

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO View Post
    This hurts much more:




    2-300$ cheap imports or 4-5K made in USA no matter, at the end of the day they are all equal expendables in front of the R&D (Ravage and Destruction) guy...
    It is nothing new or particular to Gibson, it just hurts to see it...its like wanting to eat meat and ignoring where and HOW it comes from...
    ...every note has an origin and a destination...
    - Tal Farlow

  41. #40
    I wonder what the defects on those might have been..

  42. #41

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    Gibson issued a statement:

    “The Firebird X destruction video that surfaced months ago was an isolated batch of Firebird X models built in 2009-2011 which were unsalvageable and damaged with unsafe components. This isolated group of Firebird X models were unable to be donated for any purpose and were destroyed accordingly.”

    “Gibson recently announced its re-launch of the Gibson Foundation. Since 2002, the Gibson Foundation has provided thousands of guitars and donations to schools and charities in excess of $30 million. As a starting point, Gibson has committed to giving a guitar-a-day away over the next 1000 days. 100% of donations to the Gibson Foundation go directly towards giving the gift of music, re-affirming Gibson’s commitment to giving back, helping under-served music education programs, empowering music culture and encouraging the creation of music.”
    While seeing products destroyed instead of being distributed to those in need is disturbing, that seems to hold. It doesn't make much sense for Gibson to revive their foundation and in the meantime destroy a bunch of guitars. As always the event triggered on the spot emotional comments all over Internet.

  43. #42
    Almost 400 guitars being destroyed, I think they might have picked the wrong argument to defend themselves.. You can see the boxes right next to the brand new guitars.. 400 "unsalvageable and damaged guitars".. yeah, they only did cost 5000$

  44. #43

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    This is a popular thread and is interesting.

    When Gibson was in Kalamazoo they destroyed some instruments but kept reusable parts. I don't know what parts would be reusable on these Firebirds though.

    I've posted this before, but it's relevant again. Pete Moreno took a pickup truck full of PAFs to the dump in the early 1960s by order of McCarty because they were taking up space. They were considered useless.
    MG

  45. #44

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    OK so they ran them over to make them unplayable. Then what?
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  46. #45

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    Businesses often destroy items that fail QC, prototypes, old stock, damaged or otherwise unsaleable / unfixable goods. I'm sure these guitars fall into that category, the custom electronics, tuners, battery issues on this particular model would mean that almost nothing could be re purposed even if Gibson absorbed the cost - & why would they?


    I'm not sure the answer is to lay them out in neat rows & hire a digger to crush them for the camera. I don't want to buy an instrument from people who do that any more than I'd want to buy a meal from a restaurant that made celebratory videos of all the food they threw away every day or a shirt from a tailor who cut up the clothes he couldn't sell...

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    Almost 400 guitars being destroyed, I think they might have picked the wrong argument to defend themselves.. You can see the boxes right next to the brand new guitars.. 400 "unsalvageable and damaged guitars".. yeah, they only did cost 5000$
    They don't "cost" $5000. They cost a fraction of that. Retail price is not company cost.

  48. #47
    Meaning we sell guitars for 5k a piece and 400 of them were defective (out of how many did they make, 1000 maybe?) being a weak argument.. and a not true one also in this case, since they obviously were neither "defective" nor "an isolated batch" as claimed.

  49. #48

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    I would've done it quietly.
    The video is lame and inflammatory.
    It's as idiotic of Henry J smashing that other Gibson guitar a few years ago.
    Why does everything one does need to be on social media?

  50. #49

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    "They don't "cost" $5000. They cost a fraction of that. Retail price is not company cost."

    Typically "cost" (and expense) of manufacturing a product is 1/6th the retail price.

    Considering Africa (and many other nations/countries) would not likely be a market for Gibson, and there are many musicians there who are not doubt impoverished, why not send the guitars there. ?

    Wasteful.

  51. #50

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    Gibson said they were defective, why do you speculate otherwise? They were not good enough to be released as the old "factory seconds". There were too many of them to be released into the market without warranty claim headaches and cannibalism of new sales, etc. So they were written off. They were scrap.

    In the car business they call them "lemons". In a restaurant they call it overcooked or bad tasting. In the wine business they call it "corked". Last night I had a politically incorrect cigar. The first one was stiff and didn't draw worth a darn. It was tossed in the trash and replaced.

    I know that everyone here loves guitars, yet many hate Gibson - but - these guitars were not living creatures, they were pieces of wood, plastic and metal. They had quality issues, they were not fit for purpose. They were scrap.

    Rest assured that no one was more displeased with the outcome of these instruments than Gibson. Manufacturers don't start out intending to make bad product, scrap it, and take a loss.