The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    And I just disagree and so does an entire industry of "talk to your daughter" inspired gear. That album literally created the entire cottage dumble industry of which thegearpage.net was the key market influencer. People don't realize how many gear trends were attributable to the gearpage's influence.

    And I disagree with the assertion that they sound different from that record. I have played through several real dumbles and owned close to a dozen clones based on the amp he used on that record as well as the various dumble pedals, zendrive, ethos, simbal, yada-yada, and they are *ALL* in the ballpark of that "talk to your daughter tone".
    I really don't see what there is to disagree with. I didn't say anything about the phenomenon of Dumble clones or of TGP or contradict you in any way. All I'm saying is that I have an awareness of the sound of Dumbles that pre-dates all that and is based on hearing people play them live. I heard of (and heard) Dumbles (and Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, David Lindley, Sonny Landreth, etc.) in person and on record before I even heard of the web, let alone TGP. To my ears, the sounds on Talk to Your Daughter (which are *somewhat* masked by various '80s production cliches) are *somewhat* (not wildly, just somewhat) different from RF's live sound, which to my ears is captured better by his later recordings. I just went back and listened to TTYD and to a few BL tracks, and I agree that they're all in the same ballpark, and did not say otherwise. But I saw RF live in small venues in the BL period -- he played extremely loud and there was a singing, always slightly feeding back sound that's more present on, say Handful of Blues than TTYD.

    John

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  3. #27

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    That "Talk to your daughter..." sound really inspired me to build amps. I have not heard the track in a while. Interesting to compare it to a recent copycat amp I build with a sound maybe a little more refined. This one uses a circuit similar to what one might get if one ordered a new amp. Supposedly he is still making them.

  4. #28

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    While echo and reverb are always nice to have as well as some studio compression. I have grown a bit tired of that overused saturated sound. It really would be great to hear less production on lead overdrive sounds,imo.

    As said earlier by Jack Z, every copied Robben Ford's tone so it's become overdone. And it always seems to be used in a Smoothe Jazz type of track as well.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Jack Z the Dumble OD Special 50 wich I owned back in 1980 or so. Was a an earlier a somewhat different circuit than the later versions. They did not have the Ratio control for example,as well as probably different internal values.

    They had somewhat a similar tonality,but an example of these is better illustrate by Lowell George or David Lindley with Jackson Brown.
    So I can see John A. point of live tones being different.

    The Ceriatone as well as other copied Dumbles are usually the later designs used by Larry Carlton and Robben Ford. I believe the circuits and blueprints were available on Amp Garage.
    Right but my point is that the amp tones that *MADE* the dumble clone market go crazy were the ones from talk to your daughter, not the earlier tones of lowell george or david lindley. Talk to your daughter started the dumble amp craze, regardless of what someone may or may not have heard live at a concert. And the tone robben got live was very similar to the talk to your daughter tone even when he was using a zendrive.

    for example, here he is a few years ago, classic talk to your daughter tone...


  6. #30

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    Sorry if this is getting too far afield of the original topic, but this whole discussion of the TTYD tone is interesting to me as a longtime Robben admirer. I really kinda hate the TTYD tone as it sounds on the TTYD disc. I prefer his tone on the first Yellowjackets disc vastly, but tone is a subjective thing. We don't have to like the same thing ... or argue about it ;-)

    This page says that he used a Yamaha G100 on the first Yellowjackets disc. I did see him live in a small venue around that time and the G100 did sound like that. I'm sure he had good reasons for switching to (I believe) Mesa Boogie and then eventually Dumble.

    I really like the Mesa MKIIC+ simul-class tone, as used by Carlton on many recordings and live gigs, though it is pretty much impossible to get both the saturated overdrive and a nice warm clean tone from that amp; the clean tone is a bit upper-middy, and if you dial in enough drive to saturate the lead channel, it's nearly impossible to clean up the clean tone to avoid dirt on sharp pick attacks. OTOH, if you turn the gain down enough to have a really nice clean tone (you have to live with the midrange spike still) you can't really get the "Strikes Twice" saturation and THD from the lead tone.

    This limitation, along with the demise of GE/Sylvania's US based tube manufacturing operation, drove many subsequent iterations of Boogie design. Wondering whether the newest of the new Boogies have resolved those limitations. They certainly have enough switchable channels for it! And tho I haven't heard him live with his current Mesa rig, youtube vids seem to indicate that Rit gets a nice jazz tone playing his L5 through it.

    I think that total saturation with clean scream is what people really look for out of Dumble OD Special, but I've never had the deca-dollars laying around to invest(igate) seriously

    SJ
    Last edited by starjasmine; 08-07-2019 at 09:18 PM.

  7. #31

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    Weird - this (great) old thread on jazzguitar.be just came back to life today! And on pg 2 there's this great vid of a very young Robben Ford tearin' it up on a G100-112 series II:

    Quote Originally Posted by wildschwein
    Robben Ford used those for a while with the Yellowjackets. Sounded great. I've noticed over the years that they pop up second hand on eBay quite often:

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog
    Speaking of the Blue Note ... I've been curious about that pedal. Looking for something capable of subtle drive, after clean boost. Seeing as I had picked up Jack's Vertex boost awhile ago and love it for modest clean boost, figured maybe I should try another of his recommendations.

    So I just picked up a used Blue Note, little used. Looks new. Sure enough, it has exactly what I was looking for - the option to get a little denser, more sustainy kind of edge sound without overdoing it. Without too much compression and gain. What works best so far is the switch set down (hot is up), with gain up fairly high, at 3 oclock, volume at 9 oclock. Tone and Fat knobs at about 1 oclock.

    Excellent pedal. With as much bass or as little as you might want via that Fat knob. Thanks again Jack.
    MD
    Cool!

    I have the Sarno "Earth Drive" for some of that vibe!

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    Weird - this (great) old thread on jazzguitar.be just came back to life today! And on pg 2 there's this great vid of a very young Robben Ford tearin' it up on a G100-112 series II:
    he's a great player but i'll take the dumble tone from later years over this tone - which contrary to some other claims seems to be heavily distorted...

  10. #34

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    So the ’od’ in Dumble OD Special means ’overdone’!

    (This was meant to be humour.)

    I don’t want to steal the thread but I dig my Blue Note and its Hot switch so much that when I installed the pedal in my rocking pedalboard I wired a footswitch that engages the Hot switch (in the picture: in the upper right corner of the red switch box).

    Now I have a under my feet mild distortion (JHS MG), distortion (BN), more distortion (BN Hot), even more distortion (JHS MG + BN) and most more distortion (JHS MG + BN Hot)!

    Timmy in the left is only for volume boost, no distrortion from it.

    Yes, I know, if I could play with the volume knob of my guitar everything would be easier!

    JRAD The Dude - A Perfect Jazz/Fusion Overdrive-a523bdf2-ad37-4673-a52f-ed43cda20f71-jpg

  11. #35

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    i have the smaller blue note without the hot switch. Don't miss it.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    i have the smaller blue note without the hot switch. Don't miss it.
    In fact the Hot-switch is a bit problematic: it gets You a bit more distortion but it also increases the output volume a bit – but not enough for a serious solo boosting. So You can’t really use it until the end half of the gig when Your drummer has got excited and plays harder than in soundcheck.

    I had for long a H&K Tube Factor which is a great low distortion pedal too, but it’s boost has absolutely too much boost and You can’t adjust it neither. The solos sound always like Carlos Santana (except for playing I mean).

    My amp tech made a knob for its volume level but still the sound was this and that. Blue Note is better!

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by McJazzer
    Hi all,

    I've been in possession of this pedal for about two years now but have decided to part ways with it just because I don't use it much and I need the money right now. Before it goes I wanted to share a video with my thoughts on using it in settings where you're playing with a heavily overdriven sound but still need to keep dense chords understandable.

    As a jazz/fusion guitarist, a problem for me was finding a way to play both lead and rhythm with the same drive pedal. With most pedals at higher gain, tightly voiced chords become way too ugly to use and you're often limited to only playing two or three notes over the course of two octaves. I've found that with the special ratio knob on the J Rockett The Dude pedal, you can comp similarly to how you would without drive and get good results.



    The key here is that instead of a knob controlling the amount of overdrive, the "ratio" is actually controlling the blend between your clean and overdriven sound. There's a bit more to it than that but I'll save that for the video above.

    Anyway, feel free to share your thoughts on the subject and your own favorite gear for playing complicated chords with overdrive. Hope someone finds this useful!
    Great video again, McJazzer! No slow bullshitting but straight to the business.

    And Your playing is nice to listen too.

    Amazing sound from Your archtop with this Dude. Hmm... (The sound of a rising GAS...)

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    i have the smaller blue note without the hot switch. Don't miss it.
    Jack, are you referring to the "tour series" (light gray with blue knobs)?

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonmi3
    Jack, are you referring to the "tour series" (light gray with blue knobs)?
    Mine is brushed alum with blue knobs

    https://guitar.com/wp-content/upload...Untitled-2.png

  16. #40

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    Yep, that is the "Tour Series" Blue Note. The Blue Notes are great pedals. The hot switch seems to be a "love it" or "meh!" thing.

  17. #41

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    Well , I hate you guys. After reading this thread, I ended up being compelled to ordering "the dude" pedal. I use my blue note for just a teeny bit of edge but I miss having a little more gain on tap for fusiony things. The problem is that I'm using a nano board and can't fit any more pedals on it.

  18. #42

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    That's why we Love You Jack Z. You are our Guinea Pig/ Lead Tester ,LOL!

  19. #43

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    Ha! Sorry Jack.

  20. #44

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    just wanted to mention that I got my dude pedal and at least temporarily it has replaced the blue note on my small board. Used it on the gig last night and it sounds amazing. Basically turns my fargen blackbird into a $5k dumble amp. It can get subtle levels of overdrive too though for that, the blue note is superior.

  21. #45

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    I agree that low gain settings are not its strong suit. It sounds nice but there are a lot more options that I'd prefer. I think if I were to build a board around The Dude, I'd save it for strictly high gain lead sounds where I can crank the deep control a bit. If you're trying to play rhythm with the deep control on it's too muddy.