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  1. #1

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    The concept is very interesting... if they sound good!

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984 View Post
    The concept is very interesting... if they sound good!
    n

    Agreed - but still no dffects loop ! When will Fender wake up and realise they are loosing thousands of sales through the absence of this component?

  5. #4

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    Can an effects loop be installed after purchase?

    Thanks

    Doug

  6. #5

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    Jensen’s web site yet doesn’t list the N-12K, which presumably is a neodymium version of the C12K. I hope it won’t be exclusive to Fender. It would be interesting to compare it to the C12K and Tornado.

  7. #6

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    Trying to compete with Quilter, just like Gibson competing with PRS,LOL!

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug B View Post
    Can an effects loop be installed after purchase?

    Thanks

    Doug
    On Fender tube amps you can connect an impedance matching box to the reverb loop to use it for effects, but you’ll lose the spring reverb. Seems like a bad tradeoff to me. But I don’t think these amps have spring reverbs, so that’s probably not an option.
    Since this is a solid state amp with digital processing, I don’t think it’s a good idea to make mods inside the chassis.

  9. #8

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    After reading the Fender site description of these “Twin Reverb” and “Deluxe Reverb” amps, I must admit I’m left scratching my head. Why would we need a solid state Twin Reverb amp??

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernon View Post
    After reading the Fender site description of these “Twin Reverb” and “Deluxe Reverb” amps, I must admit I’m left scratching my head. Why would we need a solid state Twin Reverb amp??
    Is the question why do we need any amp that big, or why do we need a digital version of the Twin?

    Well, it's lighter than a tube Twin! beside the amplifier itself, they are using neodymium speakers and a pine cabinet.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  11. #10
    tubeless Twin Reverb tone, volume and dynamics virtually indistinguishable from the all-tube original


    They might have been a bit over ambitious with these prices for made in China transistor amps. Boss katana competition knocking..
    Last edited by Alter; 07-18-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  12. #11

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    Solid pine cabinets and Jensen N-12K neodymium speakers! Looks like these aren't cheap budget SS amps like Champions or Frontmans. Any idea how much they will be?
    It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all. -- Chet Baker

  13. #12

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    OK I found it:
    The Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is retailing for $899.99 USD, while the Tone Master Twin is $999.99USD.

    Holy cow, they are priced like the tube versions. I like it. These are in direct competition with the original tube models (ie reissues). End is near
    Fender is doing a very bold move. Looks like they are very confident about these amps tones.
    It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all. -- Chet Baker

  14. #13

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    These videos don't really justice to a real gig comparison. It's always how does it work on a gig that really where it makes all the difference.
    Hopefully Fender got it correct this time out.I know Quilter did!

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernon View Post
    Why would we need a solid state Twin Reverb amp??
    Especially when the price is so close to that of a tube Twin. I'd rather get a tube twin and a two wheel moving dolly to move it! It's worth the trouble.

    Doug

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernon View Post
    Why would we need a solid state Twin Reverb amp??
    If they are really indistinguishable from the originals, then the question is why do we need the heavy, more expensive, inefficient, finicky tube versions?
    Given the prices and the high end appointments like solid pine cabinets, it seems like Fender is confident they nailed it for all intents and purposes.
    If they really did, July 18 2019 will be remembered as the day tubes became obsolete. This is big. Much more significant than Kemper.
    I don't know if they really achieved what they claim. But we all know that's just a matter of time now and not very far.
    It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all. -- Chet Baker

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    OK I found it:
    The Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is retailing for $899.99 USD, while the Tone Master Twin is $999.99USD.

    Holy cow, they are priced like the tube versions. I like it. These are in direct competition with the original tube models (ie reissues). End is near
    Fender is doing a very bold move. Looks like they are very confident about these amps tones.
    I'll tell you what, "modeling" or "solid state" or whatever you want to call it, is getting scarily good. Anderton's did a blindfold shootout of 5 amps, one of which was the Roland Blues Cube (solid state), and not only could the player not tell which amp was which, he PREFERRED the Cube!

    Actually makes me want to buy a Roland Blues Cube Artist... the stock tone (no "tone capsules") was modeled after the tweed Bassman...





  18. #17

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    Next, they should make twin so it folds into the size that fits into a small hand bag. Twin, the ultimate portable grab and go amp. Great for taking with you to the beach, camping and family picnic.
    It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all. -- Chet Baker

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57 View Post
    These videos don't really justice to a real gig comparison. It's always how does it work on a gig that really where it makes all the difference.
    Hopefully Fender got it correct this time out.I know Quilter did!
    I didn't listen long enough to see which is which, but I will say that in both cases, I could hear a difference between the "real" one and the digital (without actually knowing which was which). But the test strikes me as uninformative because they ALL sound like an amp going through a mic, delivered by poor youtube audio quality. I could hear digital overs on all of them, and the fact that a Twin on 4 and a Deluxe and 4 are the same volume and about the same amount of bass tells you there's limiting going on. In the real world, a Twin and a Deluxe on 4 sound much more different from each other than on that video. You could tell from the guys' reactions that they were hearing what struck them as really great and dynamic sounding amps, but that wasn't what came though my headphones at all.

    For me, It just underscores how useless video demos are, much more than it conveys what these amps actually sound like. I'd have to hear them in the real world to have any sense of what's going on. All that said, as the one who chimes in on half the posts around here about how great my dinky little Champion 20 sounds, I would not be at all surprised to find out that these new ones sound really good. I think Fender has figured out how to model their own stuff.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 07-18-2019 at 09:17 PM.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    OK I found it:
    The Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is retailing for $899.99 USD, while the Tone Master Twin is $999.99USD.

    Holy cow, they are priced like the tube versions. I like it. These are in direct competition with the original tube models (ie reissues). End is near
    Fender is doing a very bold move. Looks like they are very confident about these amps tones.
    I'm on MusiciansFriend right now. Here are the prices for Twins:

    TRRI ('65): $USD 1,450
    George Benson TR: #USD 1,700
    Tone Master TR: $1,000

    So not the same prices. I would compare the new amp to the GB model, since both have neo speakers and pine cabs.

    Guess how much the Tone Master TR weighs?

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    33 llbs! 33 freaking pounds!!!

    Now can it keep up with a real Twin, or are we talking SS watts?
    Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 07-18-2019 at 07:17 PM.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  21. #20

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    solid state twin reverb didnt work the first time cbs fender tried it either.. back in '69....whats that "doomed to repeat it" thing??...haha



    a twin reverb is all about warm 6L6's

    cheers

  22. #21

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    Sorry to ask, but : Where are the d... f.....g tubes ?
    You can't use these names for "tubeless" amps
    Make a jazz noise here

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by 339 in june View Post
    Sorry to ask, but : Where are the d... f.....g tubes ?
    You can't use these names for "tubeless" amps
    Branding is nearly everything.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  24. #23

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    Whoa daddy! I'm going to check them out.

  25. #24

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    same addition

    Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 1x12 Guitar Combo Amp Specifications

    • Series: Tone Master
    • Amplifier Type: Digital
    • Height: 17” (434 mm)
    • Width: 24.1” (13 mm)
    • Depth: 9.28” (236 cm)
    • Weight: 23 lbs. (10.4 kg)

    so that is pretty much a slam dunk, weight wise. Specs from AMS.

  26. #25

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  27. #26

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    How interesting!
    Would love to give these a try.
    I am a bit put off by the 'digital' processing part of it.
    Part of what I like about my the Quilter amps for example is that they're analogue, no modelling.
    I love the vintage Fender aesthetic so if they still sound the part it would be great.

  28. #27

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    Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery... and generally / historically doomed to failure.

    Whatever these new amps are, players would do well to judge all new ideas on their own merits. Either it does or does not cut it in the bedroom, studio or gig is what's most important no? If they do not the options are clear, get the original ("finicky"?) item and be done with it, or continue a quest for a perfect (likely nonexistent) amp.

    I was S-L-O-W to appreciate modellers, from a few Line 6 offerings I owned, to others I played from Boss and Fender I was regularly underwhelmed.

    Owning an old Polytone and Twin I didn't hear anything new I could sink my teeth into.

    Then along came the SS Bias head I wound up with. It does anything I need, it can get clean familiar Fender or Polytone like sound (the reverb sux though) and that's sufficient enough for me. If I did not have it, I'd not consider a combo anyway so new offerings are irrelevant.
    Regards,

    Gary

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post


    They might have been a bit over ambitious with these prices for made in China transistor amps. Boss katana competition knocking..

    "Made in China transistor amp" is not really accurate. Digital Solid State Integrated Circuit would be mare accurate. Most of todays electronics are made in China, That computer your using is most likely made in China.

    Tubes should be put in museums with the rest if the dinosaurs.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBGuitar View Post
    "Made in China transistor amp" is not really accurate. Digital Solid State Integrated Circuit would be mare accurate. Most of todays electronics are made in China, That computer your using is most likely made in China.

    Tubes should be put in museums with the rest if the dinosaurs.
    Moreover tubes are made in China too or Eastern Europe.

    In fact made in country X, means some percentage of building cost has incurred in that country X. So you can have an amp built with 50cents/hour labour in some sweatshop with a total cost of 20 dollars, get it shipped to country X. Have someone who gets 50 $/hour test it for 40 mins, now the amp has costed, say, total of 50 dollars where 60% of the cost incurred in the country X. Now you can legally call it "made in X". Made in country X means pretty much nothing.
    It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all. -- Chet Baker

  31. #30

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    Do Sadowsky's say "made in USA" on them? Or are they officially marketed that way? If so that's an example of what I described above.

    I mean, of course they are expensive guitars. They aren't made in a sweatshop. But the production model and legal case for "made in USA" are the same.
    It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all. -- Chet Baker

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBGuitar View Post
    "Made in China transistor amp" is not really accurate. Digital Solid State Integrated Circuit would be mare accurate. Most of todays electronics are made in China, That computer your using is most likely made in China.

    Tubes should be put in museums with the rest if the dinosaurs.
    Do you know what dinosaurs are telling you ?
    Make a jazz noise here

  33. #32

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    If they actually could model the best Fenders,this would be interesting to me.

  34. #33

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    From Fender's Web site:

    In a bold Fender first, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb amplifier uses massive digital processing power to achieve a single remarkable sonic feat: faithfully modeling the circuitry and 22-watt power output of an original Deluxe tube amp. Using a high-performance 100-watt digital power amp to achieve the headroom and dynamic range of a real vintage Deluxe tube amp, paired with the pronounced sparkle and clarity of a single Jensen® N-12K neodymium speaker and a resonant pine cabinet, the result is tubeless Deluxe Reverb tone, volume and dynamics virtually indistinguishable from the all-tube original. And with all these features, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is in fact about only half the weight of an all-tube Deluxe.

    Wouldn't it have been simpler just to build the new amps exactly the way the old ones were?
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  35. #34

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    New ones are half the weight of the old ones. But what would happen if you put the exact same light neodymium speakers and pine cabinets in the old ones. What would be the weight difference then? 5 pounds?
    It takes a pretty good drummer to be better than no drummer at all. -- Chet Baker

  36. #35
    Tubes vs Solid state is a personal choice, tools of the trade. I do have preferences, but use both, and am extremely happy that more and more portable and affordable giggable ss amps are around every new year.

    But I believe country of origin still makes a difference, as made in USA/Europe still is synonymous with superior quality. The biggest difference isn't cost, but perceived value, what the (mostly of Western countries) buying public is willing to pay and for what. And building experience also, is something I'd definitely pay a premium for.