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  1. #1

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    Fender released two new amps, the Tone Master Twin Reverb and Tone Master Deluxe Reverb, both modelling amplifiers that look almost identical to the original tube amps.


    Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb-fender-tone-master-jpg

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  3. #2

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    The concept is very interesting... if they sound good!

  4. #3

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    Jensen’s web site yet doesn’t list the N-12K, which presumably is a neodymium version of the C12K. I hope it won’t be exclusive to Fender. It would be interesting to compare it to the C12K and Tornado.

  5. #4

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    After reading the Fender site description of these “Twin Reverb” and “Deluxe Reverb” amps, I must admit I’m left scratching my head. Why would we need a solid state Twin Reverb amp??

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernon
    After reading the Fender site description of these “Twin Reverb” and “Deluxe Reverb” amps, I must admit I’m left scratching my head. Why would we need a solid state Twin Reverb amp??
    Is the question why do we need any amp that big, or why do we need a digital version of the Twin?

    Well, it's lighter than a tube Twin! beside the amplifier itself, they are using neodymium speakers and a pine cabinet.

  7. #6

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    Solid pine cabinets and Jensen N-12K neodymium speakers! Looks like these aren't cheap budget SS amps like Champions or Frontmans. Any idea how much they will be?

  8. #7

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    OK I found it:
    The Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is retailing for $899.99 USD, while the Tone Master Twin is $999.99USD.

    Holy cow, they are priced like the tube versions. I like it. These are in direct competition with the original tube models (ie reissues). End is near
    Fender is doing a very bold move. Looks like they are very confident about these amps tones.

  9. #8

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    These videos don't really justice to a real gig comparison. It's always how does it work on a gig that really where it makes all the difference.
    Hopefully Fender got it correct this time out.I know Quilter did!

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernon
    Why would we need a solid state Twin Reverb amp??
    If they are really indistinguishable from the originals, then the question is why do we need the heavy, more expensive, inefficient, finicky tube versions?
    Given the prices and the high end appointments like solid pine cabinets, it seems like Fender is confident they nailed it for all intents and purposes.
    If they really did, July 18 2019 will be remembered as the day tubes became obsolete. This is big. Much more significant than Kemper.
    I don't know if they really achieved what they claim. But we all know that's just a matter of time now and not very far.

  11. #10

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    "modeling" or "solid state" or whatever you want to call it, is getting scarily good. Anderton's did a blindfold shootout of 5 amps, one of which was the Roland Blues Cube (solid state), and not only could the player not tell which amp was which, he PREFERRED the Cube!

    Actually makes me want to buy a Roland Blues Cube Artist... the stock tone (no "tone capsules") was modeled after the tweed Bassman...





  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    These videos don't really justice to a real gig comparison. It's always how does it work on a gig that really where it makes all the difference.
    Hopefully Fender got it correct this time out.I know Quilter did!
    I didn't listen long enough to see which is which, but I will say that in both cases, I could hear a difference between the "real" one and the digital (without actually knowing which was which). But the test strikes me as uninformative because they ALL sound like an amp going through a mic, delivered by poor youtube audio quality. I could hear digital overs on all of them, and the fact that a Twin on 4 and a Deluxe and 4 are the same volume and about the same amount of bass tells you there's limiting going on. In the real world, a Twin and a Deluxe on 4 sound much more different from each other than on that video. You could tell from the guys' reactions that they were hearing what struck them as really great and dynamic sounding amps, but that wasn't what came though my headphones at all.

    For me, It just underscores how useless video demos are, much more than it conveys what these amps actually sound like. I'd have to hear them in the real world to have any sense of what's going on. All that said, as the one who chimes in on half the posts around here about how great my dinky little Champion 20 sounds, I would not be at all surprised to find out that these new ones sound really good. I think Fender has figured out how to model their own stuff.

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 07-18-2019 at 09:17 PM.

  13. #12

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    I'm on MusiciansFriend right now. Here are the prices for Twins:

    TRRI ('65): $USD 1,450
    George Benson TR: #USD 1,700
    Tone Master TR: $1,000

    So not the same prices. I would compare the new amp to the GB model, since both have neo speakers and pine cabs.

    Guess how much the Tone Master TR weighs?

    .
    .
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    33 llbs! 33 freaking pounds!!!

    Now can it keep up with a real Twin, or are we talking SS watts?
    Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 07-18-2019 at 07:17 PM.

  14. #13

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    solid state twin reverb didnt work the first time cbs fender tried it either.. back in '69....whats that "doomed to repeat it" thing??...haha



    a twin reverb is all about warm 6L6's

    cheers

  15. #14

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    same addition

    Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 1x12 Guitar Combo Amp Specifications

    • Series: Tone Master
    • Amplifier Type: Digital
    • Height: 17” (434 mm)
    • Width: 24.1” (13 mm)
    • Depth: 9.28” (236 cm)
    • Weight: 23 lbs. (10.4 kg)

    so that is pretty much a slam dunk, weight wise. Specs from AMS.

  16. #15

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  17. #16

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    How interesting!
    Would love to give these a try.
    I am a bit put off by the 'digital' processing part of it.
    Part of what I like about my the Quilter amps for example is that they're analogue, no modelling.
    I love the vintage Fender aesthetic so if they still sound the part it would be great.

  18. #17

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    Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery... and generally / historically doomed to failure.

    Whatever these new amps are, players would do well to judge all new ideas on their own merits. Either it does or does not cut it in the bedroom, studio or gig is what's most important no? If they do not the options are clear, get the original ("finicky"?) item and be done with it, or continue a quest for a perfect (likely nonexistent) amp.

    I was S-L-O-W to appreciate modellers, from a few Line 6 offerings I owned, to others I played from Boss and Fender I was regularly underwhelmed.

    Owning an old Polytone and Twin I didn't hear anything new I could sink my teeth into.

    Then along came the SS Bias head I wound up with. It does anything I need, it can get clean familiar Fender or Polytone like sound (the reverb sux though) and that's sufficient enough for me. If I did not have it, I'd not consider a combo anyway so new offerings are irrelevant.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter


    They might have been a bit over ambitious with these prices for made in China transistor amps. Boss katana competition knocking..

    "Made in China transistor amp" is not really accurate. Digital Solid State Integrated Circuit would be mare accurate. Most of todays electronics are made in China, That computer your using is most likely made in China.

    Tubes should be put in museums with the rest if the dinosaurs.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBGuitar
    "Made in China transistor amp" is not really accurate. Digital Solid State Integrated Circuit would be mare accurate. Most of todays electronics are made in China, That computer your using is most likely made in China.

    Tubes should be put in museums with the rest if the dinosaurs.
    Moreover tubes are made in China too or Eastern Europe.

    In fact made in country X, means some percentage of building cost has incurred in that country X. So you can have an amp built with 50cents/hour labour in some sweatshop with a total cost of 20 dollars, get it shipped to country X. Have someone who gets 50 $/hour test it for 40 mins, now the amp has costed, say, total of 50 dollars where 60% of the cost incurred in the country X. Now you can legally call it "made in X". Made in country X means pretty much nothing.

  21. #20

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    From Fender's Web site:

    In a bold Fender first, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb amplifier uses massive digital processing power to achieve a single remarkable sonic feat: faithfully modeling the circuitry and 22-watt power output of an original Deluxe tube amp. Using a high-performance 100-watt digital power amp to achieve the headroom and dynamic range of a real vintage Deluxe tube amp, paired with the pronounced sparkle and clarity of a single Jensen® N-12K neodymium speaker and a resonant pine cabinet, the result is tubeless Deluxe Reverb tone, volume and dynamics virtually indistinguishable from the all-tube original. And with all these features, the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb is in fact about only half the weight of an all-tube Deluxe.

    Wouldn't it have been simpler just to build the new amps exactly the way the old ones were?

  22. #21

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    New ones are half the weight of the old ones. But what would happen if you put the exact same light neodymium speakers and pine cabinets in the old ones. What would be the weight difference then? 5 pounds?

  23. #22

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    Tubes vs Solid state is a personal choice, tools of the trade. I do have preferences, but use both, and am extremely happy that more and more portable and affordable giggable ss amps are around every new year.

    But I believe country of origin still makes a difference, as made in USA/Europe still is synonymous with superior quality. The biggest difference isn't cost, but perceived value, what the (mostly of Western countries) buying public is willing to pay and for what. And building experience also, is something I'd definitely pay a premium for.

  24. #23

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    I played both of them and was not impressed. I was so curious about these amps that maybe my expectations where exaggerated. I played them in the local store and was able to compare to a '65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue and a Hot Rod Deluxe. I used an Ibanez LGB30.


    1. They are indeed light – especially the Deluxe Reverb is a featherweight!
    2. They do not sound much like a tube amp IMHO. Clean tones lack the warmth and sparkle of the tube version and the breakup is different.
    3. Unfortunately the Deluxe Reverbs (digital and tube) break up to early for my taste and applications. The Twin has enough headroom IMHO.
    4. The Reverb of the Deluxe Reverbs is so long that I'd think it's not very usable in a jazz setting. I didn't bother to test the Twin's Reverb.


    Honestly if I had to decide between the Tone Master Deluxe and Twin, the Deluxe tube reissue and the Hot Rod I'd take the Hot Rod. To me it had the best clean tone of the bunch and enough headroom. The Ibanez was nice!

    All IMHO, YMMV of course.

  25. #24

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    I have zero first hand experience with the tonemaster amps, but I expect that my opinion would mirror yours. For one thing I have never heard a neo speaker for guitar that I could tolerate. When I get to the point where weight of a typical tube combo is an issue. (not so far off I'm afraid), I'll go for separates. I'd much rather move a head and a small cab as oppossed to having modelling, neo, pcb, etc.

  26. #25

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    Interesting to read these opinions - just goes to show that what constitutes a good sound is essentially in the mind and ears of the listener. As an illustration, Lawson's recent posts and sound examples argue a point of view that is totally the opposite to what is expresssed here. I agree that the reverb is long on the Deluxe, but that was also the case on the originals (less so on the reissues) on which the ToneMaster is modeled. My only dissappointment is not being able to slow down the tremelo enough for my taste.

    What I think is worth remembering is that the same model amp can vary immensely from amp to amp - I can recall playing some twins and princetons that were not at all satisfactory to my ears, and not at all representative of the "typical" twin or princeton sound (if that exists !) .......

    From my point of view, the TMDR that I purchased gives me an excellent sound for all the types of music I play, the impuse response opportunities on the line out are tremendous, and the "attenuator" is a godsend for late night playing of blues with slight break-up; to be honest I would have difficulty A/B-ing the difference with a tube Deluxe, and I've played quite a few over the last 50 years.

    To each their own tastes....
    Last edited by Ray175; 01-29-2020 at 03:12 PM.