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  1. #101

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    The guitar is in Sweden, like me. It cost 12500 swedish kronor which is about 1350US $

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  3. #102

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    I have one of these, too, I think. I bought it at a small music store in San Francisco, probably around 1977, but I don't know exactly when. I don't have the receipt. My headstock is different from Stone Lawson's. Other than that, they look the same. Mine plays well, great intonation and sound, but a well-known luthier I showed it to in Berkeley did not like it all, said the truss rod was fully adjusted and the neck wasn't straight. If the neck isn't straight, why is it perfectly in tune, at least as good as any of my five other guitars?

    I'm probably going to buy a PRS Hollowbody II now, because of its low weight, as compared to this Aria or my ES-335. I have had this Aria for a long time. If I played in an organ trio, this would be the guitar, at least some of the time. But I don't, and probably won't, much as I might like to.

    I would like to get some approximate idea of what these are worth. I do have more guitars than I can play, and I'm not a collector, I'm a musician (though not professional).

    Thanks,

    Bluezach
    Attached Images Attached Images Aria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-aria-pro-ii-jpg 

  4. #103

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    The neck not being straight doesn't affect tuning, and intonation can be adjusted. It just makes the action higher than necessary.

  5. #104

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    That may be, but the action on this guitar is incredible, it's much lower than that of my ES-335, for example, but there is no buzz. The guitar plays great! The last time this guitar was set up was in around 2004, and the guy who did it was Gary Brawer in San Francisco. He and his shop make a cameo appearance in the Woody Allen movie, "Blue Jasmine." I don't play rock guitar, but the action on this guitar is comparable to that of a low-action rock guitar, say a Strat, strung with 10's, not with the 12-flatwounds I've got on it.

    By the way, I see that Joe's Vintage Guitars in San Jose, CA currently has one of these guitars listed on eBay for $3,350.

    If George Benson lost his guitar or had it stolen just before a gig, I don't think he'd have any problem using this guitar instead.

  6. #105

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    ledocs,

    Your guitar looks identical to mine. My guitar is the same vintage. Like yours, mine has a great action and plays like a dream. My headstock is identical to yours, by the way.

  7. #106

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    Not all luthiers have the same skills, experience, nor opinions. I haven't seen your guitar, so I have no opinion about it, just saying that having too much relief doesn't really affect tuning. No idea how much relief yours has.

  8. #107

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    ON mine, which I got from JV Guitars, the truss rod does seem to be "maxed out." But it plays wonderfully, so I didn't need to change it. I could do the washer-under-the-nut deal if it needs more adjustment room.

    Mine has a different headstock. I wish I'd gotten one lie you show but Joe sent me a different guitar than the one described on the page I bought from. He felt it was a better specimen, I can't say, but I didn't want to ship it back since it played and sounded so fabulous. But JVGuitars is a bit like that: you buy from a page that doesn't depict the very guitar you are getting. He evidently has them moving in and out a lot and he sends what he has, or what he thinks is best.

  9. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    ON mine, which I got from JV Guitars, the truss rod does seem to be "maxed out." But it plays wonderfully, so I didn't need to change it. I could do the washer-under-the-nut deal if it needs more adjustment room.

    Mine has a different headstock. I wish I'd gotten one lie you show but Joe sent me a different guitar than the one described on the page I bought from. He felt it was a better specimen, I can't say, but I didn't want to ship it back since it played and sounded so fabulous. But JVGuitars is a bit like that: you buy from a page that doesn't depict the very guitar you are getting. He evidently has them moving in and out a lot and he sends what he has, or what he thinks is best.

    I would NOT be happy about that myself Lawson, fortunately you liked the guitar.
    That bait and switch thing doesn't fly w/ me.

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    I would NOT be happy about that myself Lawson, fortunately you liked the guitar.
    That bait and switch thing doesn't fly w/ me.
    It left me a bit confused, but I was so happy with the guitar, I think he might have actually tried to get me a better one that the one I'd gone for on eBay. But overall, my being lucky doesn't change what I thought was an unhelpful (at least) process in the sale. If you read his site, he'll show a guitar and say "Sold, but another on the way" or something like that.

  11. #110

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    But the question is, if the intonation is really good, if the action is excellent, and if these things have been true for over twelve years since this luthier (I was attending his workshop on guitar setup) told me that there was something wrong with tne neck, can he have been correct?


    Just by way of contrast, I have a hand-made acoustic that I waited for two years to get. It finally arrives, and a friend of mine says that the neck isn't straight. But the intonation was off right out of the box, which is why I had this friend look at it, I couldn't get it to stay in tune above about the 10th fret, as I remember it. The luthier who built the guitar insisted that it was impossible that the neck was not straight. Finally, he relented, and the problem was solved by a friend/colleague of his who was closer to me in San Francisco, where the guitar had been sent. I still have that guitar, it's been fine since that initial repair, and I don't know exactly what was done to the neck.


    I know nothing about the physics of guitars, unfortunately, but it seems counter-intuitive that a guitar seems excellent to an experienced player over many years but that there is something fundamentally wrong with the placement or curvature of its neck. I don't see how that's possible. On the other hand, I do think it's possible that the truss rod cannot be adjusted any further. Every time I pick up this Aria, I wonder, in the back of my mind, if this will be the time that it's impossible to tune. I just took it out of the case for the first time in months today, and it was perfectly in tune. And I had forgotten how easy it is to play, because it's quite big and heavy compared to the Eastman Pisano that I had been playing.
    Last edited by ledocs; 05-03-2019 at 08:26 PM.

  12. #111

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    The truss rod has nothing to do with tuning. It only affects relief, and relief is a subjective adjustment. Some like more, some like less. It also has little to do with intonation, which is adjusted either by moving the bridge or by moving the saddles if it's a TOM. As long as the strings are the same, the relief should be stable. Put heavier strings, a couple of gauges larger, and excessive relief could be a problem if the truss rod can't be tightened, but I wouldn't worry about it as long as you're happy with the playability as it is. Whether someone else likes it or not is irrelevant until they own the guitar.

  13. #112

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    If you change to a noticeably heavier gauge string, it may occasion a tug on the truss tod to bring the action back where you want it. If it's maxed, no can do.

    Otherwise, you are good.

  14. #113

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    I have never paid any attention to relief. On this guitar, I personally could live with higher action. As I mentioned, this guitar has the lowest action of the six guitars I own, and it's not really close. As a result of this discussion, or of having come to this thread when I tried to find out definitively what Aria guitar I own, I played the Aria for the first time in a few months. And it made me want to lower the action on my ES-335, which I have done. In fact, I went too far in adjusting the TOM bridge today, I started to get silence, literally no tone, on the 3rd and 4th strings around the 14th fret. So I readjusted the bridge upwards, which solved that problem.

    You guys are giving me the impression that I could adjust the truss rod on the Aria so that it's not maxed out, put higher gauge strings on it (which I don't really want to do, just theoretically), and go from there. I've been using D'Addario XL flat-wound Chrome lights (0.52 - 0.12) on this guitar. I know Pat Martino plays with heavy gauge strings, I don't know how heavy, but how many people are going to want to play with heavier gauge strings than the ones I'm using on this guitar? That's a real question. I live in rural France now. I don't run into a lot of jazz guitarists playing American-style archtops. There are lots of gypsy jazz guys. No one would play this guitar acoustically. It has virtually no resonance when played acoustically. My Eastman Pisano is much better acoustically, which is one of the reasons I play it more, I play folk music on it, it's a lot closer to an acoustic guitar than the Aria.

    Just out of curiosity, do you guys ever watch Jimmy Bruno's diary videos on youtube? He's typically playing an archtop acoustically, and it has no resonance, it sounds like sh*t. I don't know why he doesn't plug into a small amp, it's weird. This doesn't prevent me from watching, I find the whole thing fascinating, he's quite engaging. There are archtops that would sound a whole lot better acoustically than the one he uses.

  15. #114

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    Aria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-aria-pro-ii-pe-180-late-1970s-jpg

    I noticed this particular model receives a lot of love here. Well, as a matter of fact I owned one too long ago and I found some forgotten clips on my hard drive that some of the owners may dig. My wrist is in a splint and I should not play for 6 weeks says my hand surgeon. So I have nothing better to do than regurgitate old clips and talk about guitars (even the ones I no longer have apparently).

    I usually post clips in the Showcase section but this one is not about the playing (which is old).

    My PE 180 was a late 70s blonde one - the pic above was mine - and it looked really great. It had a super 400 style neck (big headstock) on an L5 like body. The neck was chubby. It did not sound anything like an L5 but still very good. More or less like a 175. Very classic. It was not built lightly and pretty heavy AFAIR.

    It was a great guitar that I sold for way too little money. But I had traded it against an old acoustic so got it for a bargain.

    Both being 17" laminate archtops with humbuckers, a comparison with the Tal Farlow comes to mind. Was it just as good? No, it wasn't IMHO. The Tal Farlow has more character sound wise (it actually has a Farlow vibe in it which is definitely not in my 175) and is of a higher quality overall (build is a bit lighter, better neck, better pups, much nicer woods etc.) but the PE 180 is still a fine guitar that really looks great.

    It's the one that got away ...

    The year was 2004. The clip was recorded with a webcam probably. Vid quality is horrible and there are software hick-ups in the audio. Youtube did not exist yet. Neither did JGBE.
    DB

    Last edited by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog; 07-16-2019 at 11:29 AM.

  16. #115

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    That's a gorgeous PE-180. You correctly report that this instrument gets favorable attention here.

    I have one (albeit in Memphis EL-300 headstock form), Lawson Stone has one, 2bornot2bop owned one, and others, too.

    I play my version every day. You are correct that it is not quite the same as an L5CES in sound. It is a laminate-spruce top, after all. It does, however, feel a LOT like a Norlin-era L5CES. The neck carve, feel of the body, etc., feels like you are holding a 70s L5. It plays just like one, too.

    As far as sound goes, the "180" is a truly superior instrument. It is a marvelous 17" archtop guitar in its own right, with a great jazz vibe. I own some truly excellent carved body archtops. I wouldn't hesitate to put a "180" up against any of them. This is going to sound like heresy, but the "180" is actually superior to the ES-175s I have owned and have sampled.

    FWIW, it's my band's favorite for me to arrive at the gig with. Here's the PE-180 in Memphis EL-300 form:
    Aria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-mewmphis-el300-jpg
    Last edited by Greentone; 07-16-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  17. #116

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    I happen to have 3 w slightly different cosmetics, one will be for sale soon, I only need one and a backup.
    I've been using one on our regular Friday night gig for 6 yrs now.

  18. #117

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    Wintermoon, which of these do you have?
    Aria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-aria-pro-ii-l-1000-headstock_front-jpgAria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-aria-headstock-jpgAria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-pro-ii-180-headstock-jpgAria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-pe180-headstock-jpgAria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-aria-pro-ii-pe-180-head-jpg

  19. #118

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    GT,
    One is like the 3rd one pictured, another is just like it but w the Goya inlay, the other is like the 3rd pictured but w the Gibson "lawsuit" moustache top.

  20. #119

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    p.s. I've only seen 2 or 3 blondes like DB's old guitar, the vast majority were sunburst.

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
    Aria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-aria-pro-ii-pe-180-late-1970s-jpg

    I noticed this particular model receives a lot of love here. Well, as a matter of fact I owned one too long ago and I found some forgotten clips on my hard drive that some of the owners may dig. My wrist is in a splint and I should not play for 6 weeks says my hand surgeon. So I have nothing better to do than regurgitate old clips and talk about guitars (even the ones I no longer have apparently).

    I usually post clips in the Showcase section but this one is not about the playing (which is old).

    My PE 180 was a late 70s blonde one - the pic above was mine - and it looked really great. It had a super 400 style neck (big headstock) on an L5 like body. The neck was chubby. It did not sound anything like an L5 but still very good. More or less like a 175. Very classic. It was not built lightly and pretty heavy AFAIR.

    It was a great guitar that I sold for way too little money. But I had traded it against an old acoustic so got it for a bargain.

    Both being 17" laminate archtops with humbuckers, a comparison with the Tal Farlow comes to mind. Was it just as good? No, it wasn't IMHO. The Tal Farlow has more character sound wise (it actually has a Farlow vibe in it which is definitely not in my 175) and is of a higher quality overall (build is a bit lighter, better neck, better pups, much nicer woods etc.) but the PE 180 is still a fine guitar that really looks great.

    It's the one that got away ...

    The year was 2004. The clip was recorded with a webcam probably. Vid quality is horrible and there are software hick-ups in the audio. Youtube did not exist yet. Neither did JGBE.
    DB

    I agree they're excellent laminate guitars. the extra weight of a heavy guitar never bothered me, I'm kind of used to them after all these yrs. They're not in the same league soundwise as a good vintage L-5 or Super 400 but they're not carved top lacquer finished instruments either, so really not a fair comparison. But they're great for what they are. I needed a good guitar to use on close quartered bar gigs and got my first PE-180 locally from the daughter of the orig owner in a flea market parking lot - s
    he previously had it on ebay and the buyer flaked out, so she had a price in mind which I initially agreed to w/out seeing it in person, but it was played to death, frets worn down to the nubs and the neck looked like a rollercoaster it was so screwed up, so I walked away from it. But as she was getting in her car I turned around and called out a lower price than what she was asking to offset some of the refret/neck work, cause it had such a great vibe/mojo and she agreed, she just wanted to get rid of her dads old guitars, she probably would've accepted 1/2 of what she was asking. Then I took a chance on a young up and coming local luthier/repairman and he got the neck straight and playing like butter, have no idea how, but it's been my main 'laminate bar gig instrument' going on 7 yrs now, my old '69 L-5 CES has covered the rest of my gigs since the beginning of time.
    This has been mentioned here many times, but those old Matsumoko guitars are some of the best playing electrics I've ever had, Greentone and Lawson know this among others here. Way more consistent than Gibsons and I'm a huge vintage Gibson fanboy and am fortunate to own many excellent examples. But those old Japanese guitars just seem to have consistently perfect size/shaped necks and the mounting angles are consistently good as well, bridge height is usually tall. Plus they're not shaped too thin or thick, Gibsons are all over the map depending on era and carver. These old 17" Aria/Gibson copies have been climbing in price over the last few yrs and aren't easy to find either. They were already quite expensive when originally in production in the 70's-80s iirc.

  22. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    These old 17" Aria/Gibson copies have been climbing in price over the last few years and aren't easy to find either. .
    Yes, but the prices for these are all over the place. I just saw a few in the 2500-3000 realm. That is ridiculous. I mean, I got my Tal cheaper than that and I do think a Tal is a nicer guitar. In addition, I do hate the consistent but false sales rep "better than the original" or "truthful replica" for guitars like that. You cannot compare a PE 180 with a Super 400 or L5 specs wise.

    Same for the Ibanez L5s and Johnny Smiths of that era. I owned a 1977 Ibanez Johnny Smith once too.

    But for a more reasonable price the PE 180 is a great guitar.

    DB

  23. #122

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    I can't comment on the Tal, but I agree on the other points. I'm crazy about my PE180 with the 70's looking sunburst. Indeed, the L5ces is a finer guitar, and the Epiphone Elitist Broadway was also finer, both being solid-top instruments. Still, the PE180 punches way above its class and the stock pickups I think are strikingly good. I agree the "just as good, half the price" PR copy is inaccurate. This guitar doesn't need hype, just solid exposure, and people who know a great archtop guitar will spot it immediately.

    Many do come with truss rods maxed out, so like any guitar "of a certain age" one should exercise due diligence. I continue to love mine, and love the laminate sound with the big L5 body and long scale. I probably have a Tal in my future but for now when I want a big-bodied, sophisticated but still punchy sound, I reach for the PE180. Kind of like an ES175 that has gone to the gym!

  24. #123

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    Lovely instrument, great playing. I hope your arm heals soon and without issues!

  25. #124

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    I've got the Epi version of the PE-180 - the Epi Emperor F in blonde from 1983

    I traded a 70's Greco ES-175 copy for it - the Emperor was a massive step up in feel, looks and tone.
    I'd rather have this Epi than a Gibson ES-175 for example, as I prefer the long scale and 17'' body
    It has a fairly thick neck profile - suits this style of guitar in my opinion.

    Mine needed no work whatsoever
    I can get the action incredibly low with no buzzing

    I swapped out the humbuckers (which were actually seriously nice) with some humbucker sized Dynasonic pickups made by Gabojo pickups in Greece. The idea was getting the Billy Bean sound - which it nails!
    Also I put on a wooden saddle as I really don't like the tuneomatic bridges. They just buzz and rattle too much while killing the tone of the guitar.

    This is how it looked when I brought it home.

    Aria Pro II PE 180 (L5/400 Type)-epi-emperor-jpg

  26. #125

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    listen to that tone - in DB's hands!



    Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 07-20-2019 at 08:19 PM.