The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    For myself, what’s more important is the feel of a polytone. They have an ever so slightly compressed feel, unlike modern super fast SS designs.

    A smile of compression might help get you closer.

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  3. #77

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    True...like an old tube amp

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagelove
    They have an ever so slightly compressed feel, unlike modern super fast SS designs.
    Good specimen of old Polytone would have that squishy feel without being “muffled” or too low-fi.

    On a side note, at one point (sometime in the early 2000’s), I finally gave up on Polytones altogether- old and new, due to the company’s archaic approach to design and business model in general.
    Ironically, the conclusion came after visiting and talking with the corporate hq for some time (I was local then).
    It seemed painfully apparent to me that it was the end of an era.

    It seems to me now that there are more and better options for that old sound and then some, at various price points.

    Again, if you can hear the sound you like and know how to dial in what you hear, we live in a pretty decent time in terms of having fun with relatively little coinage. Sounds like OP had some success.

  5. #79

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    My IV is more dynamic than my II also, though both are great amps. I have a Polytone IV extension speaker. Run the II into it and you get a very dynamic sound. It's the cabinet volume and the 15" speaker.

  6. #80

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    Actually it might be best to stop trying to get a particular amp sound, and learn to use lots of amps to get your own sound. Define what it is y ou like about the Polytone sound and learn to get it from different kinds of amps. I'm amazed that whatever Kenny Burrell plays through, he always gets his signature tone. Wes Montgomery as well. I'm NOT saying "it's in the fingers" (thought lots of it is). It's also in the ears, and in the skill at setting up the instrument and amp to do the job.

    I have a bunch of different kinds of amps. But if I play one a while, it begins to sound like my other amps. That's because I keep tweaking it to "my" sound. It's easier, of course, on amps that by default sound like what I want, but I feel more and more like I could get the tone I want from most any decent amp except maybe one that started distorting on 2.

    Says a guy who can't stop buying amps...

  7. #81

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    Yes, that’s true. In my opinion a sound really sits in the fingers. I want a Polytone sound thanks to the flat and neutral character of it. In other words I don’t want an amp sound that ruins my general playing technique and attitude to music as a communication medium. This is the reason why I made a decision for a while ago to never use distortion again. The distortion color my ”own sound” too much and makes me uncomfortable. I need an amp that let my playing technique shine through and never color my ”own sound” too much. In my opinion a sound is mostly based on how you’re phrasing, what picking technique you’re using and if dynamics is a key part when you’re playing. The Polytone sound helps me to find what I’m looking for musically. In other words I want a sound that doesn’t sound like a sound.
    Last edited by Bbmaj7#5#9; 10-30-2019 at 05:24 AM.

  8. #82

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    My amps consist of a Fender Vibrolux, a Polytone (15") an Evans AH200, with various speakers
    and lastly ,but certainly not least , a Mambo 12' , the Mambo was originally conceived as an
    up to date or improvement on the Polytone amps, and I would not disagree with that. It stands
    apart from the others because it works well with any good Archtop, and i suggest that the OP's
    comments are met by the Mambo's neutrality of sound in similar character to the Polytones of
    yesteryear with no hum hiss or other extraneous noise.
    The downside is that the Mambo is not readily available in the USA, yet there are rarely any
    negative views of it.

  9. #83

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    If I get a chance in future to try a Mambo I’ll do it. Generally the market of jazz guitar amps in Sweden is very small and limited. There are some shops that sells Henriksen and DV Mark amps, but apart from that it’s a poor sortiment. Even Polytones, neither vintage or modern, are rare to find. Last summer I bought an Ibanez WT-80 Wholetone in a shop, but the 15 inch speaker was broken so the amp was returned quite fast. The salesman thought it was an acoustic amp!

  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbmaj7#5#9
    Yes, that’s true. In my opinion a sound really sits in the fingers. I want a Polytone sound thanks to the flat and neutral character of it. In other words I don’t want an amp sound that ruins my general playing technique and attitude to music as a communication medium. This is the reason why I made a decision for a while ago to never use distortion again. The distortion color my ”own sound” too much and makes me uncomfortable. I need an amp that let my playing technique shine through and never color my ”own sound” too much. In my opinion a sound is mostly based on how you’re phrasing, what picking technique you’re using and if dynamics is a key part when you’re playing. The Polytone sound helps me to find what I’m looking for musically. In other words I want a sound that doesn’t sound like a sound.
    Funny but I never thought the Polytone sound was "neutral." Yes he Baxendall tone stack gives you a flat EQ, but the rest of the amp powerfully colors the tone so that almost any guitar I play through the Polytone ends up sounding very similar. That amp is a marvel, I confess. I don't know all the calculus, but the combination of a simple circuit, primitive components, some mis-matched stuff, a massively heavy low-impedance speaker, and household insulation... somehow it all produces an unmistakable "Polytone" sound from anything. Even my solid-body Hagstrom I sounds "Polytonish" through it.

    When I want "neutral" these days, the best I can do is the Quilter Interblock 45 set on the FRFR settings both for EQ and for the output. Even then, I'm not sure.

    Another option for you: the famous "Polytone in a Pedal" through the DVMark Micro50 is, to my ear, really amazing. Put that Micro50 through a 4 Ohm 10" speaker and you get pretty close.

    I might make a clip on this. That pedal is really got some serious Polytone stuff happening.

    Contact the user "jazzmus" if you are interested.

  11. #85

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    What modern amp is most similar to a Polytone/would get me closest to the classic Polytone sound?

  12. #86

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  13. #87

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    Pretty much any modern amp can sound like a Polytone. All you need to do is cover the amp with a wet blanket.

    I say this with great respect for you and the many Polytone fans on the forum, but I don't get the fascination with Polytone. They're not necessarily bad amps, but after gigging with 2 different Polytones for years, I found pretty much any Fender Deluxe or Princeton, Roland Jazz Chorus or Roland Cube to be more musical and tunable to the venue. I will say that my minibrutes were very useful for those times I had to play bass. But for guitar, I feel there are many better sounding, more reliable, less limiting amp options available these days. Just my opinion.

    Roli

  14. #88

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    I will kindly disagree with you. The first time i plugged a guitar and play a single note in a Minibrute two tone controls i said "fuckkkkkk what is this warm sound????". I was unbiased since i didnt know about them, at the begining i thought it was the guitar, so i asked the seller to connect it to a roland jc40 and thought "ahhh the key is the amp!!!".

    The guitar was a marvelous L-5 Wesmo.

    I never got more inspired to play than with that amp: i tried everthing, henriksen, rolands, fender twins... The sound of polytone is unique.
    One key to it is that it has big a low cut and some bump in the middle bass to compensate (around 350hz at least 6db). With such a cut and boost you dont even need to roll of your treble in the amp or the guitar. I am still trying to emulate it via DI.
    Probably a good equalizer pedal can take you there. I dont know about polytone in pedal. Never tried it.

  15. #89

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    I’m happy you found a sound you like. I just got tired of the Polytone sound. I was playing ES-165s and 175s in those days and grew weary of the muffled sound. The MB II had a more pleasing sound. But my MB IV with it’s larger speaker and hf driver sounded muddy and awful to me. Someone once told me it had something to do with “odd-order harmonics”? Fortunately, my beautiful L-5 Wesmo sounds fat and wonderful through most amps, especially my Fender tube amps.

    Lately, I have been enjoying my Yamaha THR10 II for home use and recording. The sound is very pleasant and the USB output can be adjusted for a very warm and fat jazz tone with my L-5 and other guitars. I really enjoy it.

    Soy yanqui. Mi tia era argentina y yo vivía alla (en Mar Del Plata y en Bahía Blanca) por dos años cuando era joven. Ella era porteña y hablaba el francés, el italiano y el castellano. Hace muchísimos años desde que visitara a la Argentina. Mi esposa y yo queremos hacer el viaje en la primavera sí sea posible (ese Octubre o Noviembre).

    Gustavo, I enjoy your playing and your beautiful tone! ¡Que sigas adelante con tu música extraordinaria!

  16. #90

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    I had a Polytone Mini Brute like 15 years ago. It was nice, good tone, very portable. Before getting my own I was able to burrow one from a fellow guitarist and found the tone nicer than the Sessionette I had then. Played it for a couple of years.
    Then ... Our bass player had a Fender Blues junior. We were recording in his home/studio. I changed amps between tracks. Listening to the tracks everybody in the band agreed that the little fender is much better – with roughly half the cost. I've been playing Fender tube amps ever since.

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by rolijen
    Pretty much any modern amp can sound like a Polytone. All you need to do is cover the amp with a wet blanket.

    you're' almost right, a wet cardboard box over the blanket, speaker kicked in, treble circuit disconnected. with the reverb in continous drone mode, then combine with 1o year old rusted flatwounds coated in bitumen, played with gardening gloves.

  18. #92

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    Polytone amps. Love em' or hate em' I guess.

    I became a fan in the 70's and owned 6 Mini Brute 2's over the years and played many, many gigs with a Polytone and was happy with the dark, thick tone.

    I like the brighter Fender/tube amp sound as well and for overdriven sounds pretty much require a tube amp.

    Here are some of my thoughts after reading the posts in this thread:

    Polytones with a 15 inch speaker are best for bass or a very bright guitar. The 12 inch speaker (or smaller) does better with a dark sounding jazz guitar.

    While I have a Polytone Mini-Brian in my collection, I get that dark, thick solid state sound from a Clarus/Raezer's Edge combo with greater clarity and reliability (I know some guys like the early breakup that a Polytone delivers, I do not). I use my Mini-Brain with my Raezer's Edge Cabinets from time to time and it sounds great, but the Clarus has way more tone control to adjust for different rooms, something that is useful for a professional musician. And the Clarus stays clean, no matter the volume.

    Henriksen advertised itself as the Polytone for a new millennium when they started. I do not think their early amps were quite in the Polytone ballpark, but their newer class D amps are there. That would be my choice today.

    If you have a Polytone and like it, may she serve you well. If you do not, be careful. They are old amps these days and may require expensive work to keep running. And the original speakers are no longer being made, which, IMO, was part of their particular sound.

    For those that prefer the Fender/tube amp sound there are a lot of great choices today. Find one you like, but there is really no reason to slam the venerable Polytone amps. They were used by guitarists better than me (Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, George Benson and Jim Hall come to mind), and I would bet those guitarists are/were better than you too. Just sayin'

  19. #93

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    IN my practicer area I have a Polytone Minibrute II 90's pre-sonic circuit, a Fender Princeton Reverb Re-issue with 12" CR speaker, a Fender Tonemaster Twin Reverb, a Quilter TB202 played through 2 10" speakers. I love all of these amps, each has its sound. Honestly I never understood the "wet blanket" concept of the Polytone sound. My Polytone MB2 has a well rounded sound that is easy to tweak. It can be a little nasally or boxy, but not extremely so. It has been extremely reliable in the 25 years or so that I've had it. I change the amp I use every day just for fun, and I always look forward to plugging into my Polytone. That said, I'm crazy about my PRRI, consider the TMTR my best amp, and feel like the Quilter TB202 is the most versatile.

  20. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    . Honestly I never understood the "wet blanket" concept of the Polytone sound.

    neither have i they can sound bright if you want. the problem is probably since they were really designed for Jazz, that sound is generally going to be more in that domain, darker.

    I think most most amps including Fender were designed for general music including rock, Amps like Blue Junior and that ilk, i think were designed probably with blues in mind.

  21. #95

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    There was nothing better to schlep around NYC, a gig bag, a polytone on a hand truck could get me anywhere i needed to go...
    The sound is great, but I prefer Fender tube amps, which i would never want to abuse the way i did my polytone
    as far as the original question, i'm not sure... I think Henriksen are in the ballpark

  22. #96

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    Hello,
    The first DV Mark amp I tried was the 50 watt mini amp head. It was called Micro 50, I think. I plugged into a 12 inch Bognor open back, insulated cabinet.
    It sounded very rich and warm, like a Polytone I had played years before. I could put the bass on 1/10 and it was still really warm sounding.
    At first I enjoyed that sound, but I tired of it after a while and traded it for some other gear. But, it was a very decent piece of gear which could be practical for a gigging player. (the reverb I thought strange and useless).
    The next one I tried was the DV Mark Jazz 12, only because the amp was priced at $379 (usually $500). It was not as warm sounding as the Micro50, which was surprising. It sounded brighter than I expected, but it was portable, and functional. However, I enjoyed playing through a Zoom G5n unit much more than the Jazz 12. I played the Jazz 12 for 10 days and then returned it for a refund (Musician Friend).

    If I wanted a Polytone sound for live gigs, I would probably try the DV Mark Lil Jazz amp. It sounds good based on their (DVM) video examples and it is easy to carry.
    Of course, for recording, you can get that sound with any DI device.

    PD

  23. #97

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    Back to the OP's original post...

    Modelling amps have the best chance of doing the job but, in my experience the value line modelers will not get as close.

    I tried a Kemper briefly and it was remarkable. My Positive grid with two 12" bass cabs does a great job of nailing my Polytone 102.

  24. #98

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    ZT Lunchbox Junior.
    Seriously, despite the small speaker size it's got that full fat tone of the old polytones. It even has the subtle grit that the polytones are known for.

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    A lot of these Jazz amps to me aren't worth the price. A good Roland Cube 60 works like a charm and costs next to nothing.

    They're not quite as punchy as the poly but 80% there and very usable in most situations.

    Failing that, get a Two Rock 6l6 Studio Pro.

    Better than the poly ;-)


    Attachment 73077
    Maybe, but you've got to really like the PLASTIC jack socket - 'Design by accountant'

  26. #100

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    This thread, started nine years ago, is a prime example of how backward-looking part of the jazz guitar community can be. There's people who owned Polytones years and and years back. There's a few diehards who struggle to keep theirs in working condition. There were many Polytone versions and circuits, so probably not a singular Polytone tone. For those who used Polytones back then: are you sure they would sound the same to your ears, 40 years later? For those who still use them: what makes them superior to the contemporary offering?

    In my neck of the woods, there's one Polytone guitarist who plays his guitar like a banjo. There's one Polytone bassist. So not an awful lot to refer to. I'm all ???