The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I got a 2017 ES-175 from that amazing CME blowout. I love it.

    It did take a bit of sorting out -- I had to deal with pickup spring rattle and I changed out the titanium bridge for brass.
    But now it is everything I could want in an electric guitar. I even quit guitar shopping !!!

    Hard for me to imagine they won't start making the venerable ES-175 again at some point.

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  3. #27

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    Mark,

    Thanks for the update on the 175. I was sick about it. Bob please give me the Delta update.

  4. #28

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    The Benedetto Bambino is way more like an ES-175 in design than a Tele Thin line.
    Perhaps you have never had the opportunity to try one. I will grant you the Bravo model might be even more so,since its 16" and a fatter 2&1/2" deep.

    I used to own a ES-175 as well as a ES-775. Both guitars were great but th Benedetto guitars imo take that design into a more modern spec that seems more practical for today's applications.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    I saw the guitar yesterday at Pete Moreno's. He said it was a good break. Once repaired it will be very strong. The veneer was not damaged. He'll put a small stinger on it. It will look new.

    Pete built 175s in the 60s through 80s and has repaired them under contract with Gibson from the 70s to the 90s. He knows 175s. The guitar in question he said is excellent.

    Attachment 63402Attachment 63403
    That just breaks one's heart! Thank God it was a clean break. It will be stronger than new when repaired! I don't know how professional traveling musicians doing it anymore. I would panic if I had to check a valuable guitar. All the airline damage reports these days are incredible. And when Air Berlin lost Larry Carlton's iconic 335 for month, that did it for me!

  6. #30

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    I can't debate ANY of the observations above. Good advice there.

    I've played a few 175 duds from every decade but most were very good but a few were exceptional. Some that were heavier were better than lighter models and one that was RATTY and SHITTY looking was the best. I fell in love with it but at its premium price could NOT bring myself to buy it. I am Sooo sorry I did not buy it and will always remember it as the one I should have never passed up.

    I learned my lesson well enough to get my 1995 which was a score but it too has an issue the next owner will have to accept :-)

    Nitpickers need to buy new. :-)
    Last edited by GNAPPI; 07-07-2019 at 09:18 PM.

  7. #31

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    I went for a Figured Memphis ES 175 during the CME sale, kind of towards the end of it. The one I got had a poorly cut nut. I think that was the main issue. I loved it other wise. I tried to get them to knock off a couple bucks for me to get it sorted but they wouldn’t.

    I returned it and, for a few hundred more, got a 59 VOS 175 which I love in it’s own right. But something about that Memphis Figured really spoke to me. Maybe the metal bridge or the larger frets but I could see having one of each.

    That sale was an opportunity for sure.

  8. #32

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    This thread has a lot of substance to be a sticker.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by 73Fender
    I went for a Figured Memphis ES 175 during the CME sale, kind of towards the end of it. The one I got had a poorly cut nut. I think that was the main issue. I loved it other wise. I tried to get them to knock off a couple bucks for me to get it sorted but they wouldn’t.

    I returned it and, for a few hundred more, got a 59 VOS 175 which I love in it’s own right. But something about that Memphis Figured really spoke to me. Maybe the metal bridge or the larger frets but I could see having one of each.

    That sale was an opportunity for sure.
    My 2017 ES-175 has that nut issue -- the top E string being too close to the edge of the fretboard. I kept the guitar and when I subbed in a Brass Tunomatic, I made the groove for the top E a little closer in rather than straight down the middle. It was a good fix -- I've stuck with the factory nut so far. Seldom gives me trouble (but every so often). Interestingly, this is not the only Gibson guitar I have owned with a high E string too close to the edge. I had a Midtown Custom and a LP Junior exactly the same way. I don't think the company sees it as a defect -- but it's definitely not one of their best design ideas.

    Oh, and if we are talking Gibson design misses, might as well mention the ES-175 neck pick up being not level with the strings !!!!

  10. #34
    PM Sent Vinny. THANKS... Quite the adventure with Delta. I paid a premium price for what was supposed to be the 'white glove' shipping treatment for a direct flight. Luckily MartyGrass (Mark) is close to Pete and has helped me get all the necessary info to Delta. Worst customer support experience I ever had with their Baggage claims dept.

    Hoping for a resolution from Delta in 2019 (based on how things have been going so far).

    Pete will make it right and I will have a very rare 175 with the highly sought after "STINGER". I saw some internet posts with broken headstock guitars for sale stating

    'Tone is actually improved when a headstock break is repaired properly'.


    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Mark,

    Thanks for the update on the 175. I was sick about it. Bob please give me the Delta update.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franz 1997
    I had a 'Kriesberg' maple neck Norlin 175 from the 70s. Although it was both the ugliest and the cheapest 175 I ever bought, with a big volute >>SNIP<<
    You say volute like it was a dirty word or that it somehow detracted from it's appeal or value?

    Newer players really need to know that there's absolutely nothing wrong with a volute, and IMO players lost the battle (they thought they won) the day Gibson caved in to the prejudices from the throngs who rose up in protest against the volute.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    You say volute like it was a dirty word or that it somehow detracted from it's appeal or value?

    Newer players really need to know that there's absolutely nothing wrong with a volute, and IMO players lost the battle (they thought they won) the day Gibson caved in to the prejudices from the throngs who rose up in protest against the volute.
    I don't think there's anything wrong with a volute, and it may well provide some break protection. I actually prefer a well-executed volute, especially on a mahog neck guitar. However I do think the 70s Norlin volute looked clumsy and out of proportion to the neck dimensions, compared with better-executed volutes of many other guitars. Rightly or ( probably) wrongly, it did detract from the appeal of the instrument, as you've yourself gone on to point out. It's hard to see this particular volute as attractive.

    Anyway, the whole point of my post was to say that ugly ducklings can be great players, which is what matters, and that individual instruments vary, irrespective of the era they were made in.
    Attached Images Attached Images Modern Gibson ES-175-175-b-jpg 

  13. #37

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    This is from Chuck Thornton's website. The design makes sense but is labor intensive compared to most guitar factory approaches. A couple of years ago Chuck told me that he's never had to do a headstock repair yet despite reports of his guitars falling off of stands and being dropped. However, he hasn't made thousands of guitars. Further, his clientele tends to be more mature.

    Heritage calculated breakage rates with shipping. I don't recall the percent but it was in the ballpark of 2-4%.


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    A patented headstock design with a volute in the back of the headstock and a carved top of the headstock for two opposing radii.
    A radius is a very strong architectural design, you can see them holding up bridges.
    By using two opposing radii I feel that the integrity of an angled headstock is far enhanced and much less likely to break if the guitar were to fall.



  14. #38

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    Having a hard time visualizing “two opposing radii” on a headstock. Can you give me some help?

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBPhx
    Having a hard time visualizing “two opposing radii” on a headstock. Can you give me some help?
    I think it can already be seen in the pictures. Both sides of where the neck meets the headstock is thickened.

  16. #40

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    Mark Campellone is a believer in volutes.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I think it can already be seen in the pictures. Both sides of where the neck meets the headstock is thickened.
    Ahhh! Now I see it. Thank you.

  18. #42

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    Radii or not, the neck/headstock junction is fattened up where it otherwise would be thinnest at the truss rod adjustment cavity.

    A completely opposite but even more bulletproof design is the headless guitar. I had one for traveling for many years. No headstock issues whatsoever.

  19. #43

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    I bought two 175's from the CME blowout, both were made in 2017. One is the 59 reissue and the other is the figured. Neither is a second. I bought them late in the game when all the seconds had presumable been shipped. Early in the game i bought a 330 that was clearly a second. That guitar was sold to a happy owner for what I paid (and I got to demo it for 8 months or so)

    The 59 reissue is a lightly built guitar that is very much like the best 50's 175's that I have played. The figured is a more heavily built modern guitar. I rotate both on gigs. Having owned many 175's over the years, I can say with certainty that these two are as good or better than any of the older ones I have owned, which included a 63, a 67, a 70, a 77, an 82 and others. Here is a picture of me playing the 59 reissue on yesterday's duo gig with San Francisco guitarist Ned Boynton. Ned was playing a 59 reissue 345. We were doing a concert for the City of Healdsburg in California's wine country. Modern Gibson ES-175-marc-ned-jpg

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by gggomez
    the 57 pickups yeah dunno. I swapped mine out for lindy Fralin p90 in humbucker but it did not sound like a p90 so 57 is back in and sounds better. Might try his pure PAF pickup one day when I can be bothered going through the inconvenience of guitar repairs.
    .
    I had exactly the same experience in trading out a humbucker for a Fralin P-90 in a cover. I didn't get the humcancelling version but rather the regular one as it got some really good reviews in magazines.

    I had been having some trouble with "boominess" with the neck pickup I had in my particular guitar with my set up and felt a P-90 would sort things out. It did a fine job at taking away the overly bassy voice of the instrument but I felt it was kind of insipid. It didn't have the strong character I associated with my favourite p-90 wielding guitarists on record. - I wonder if perhaps I would have, against my instincts, liked one that was wound a bit hotter. People seem to love the stock Gibson P90s of yesteryear (and today's also) and many of them are hotter.

    In a humbucker, I would be inclined toward a Duncan Antiquity although they are pretty pricey. I think I might appreciate the degaussing of the magnets over the less expensive Seth Lovers.

    I seem to want something that is difficult to have. A lower output pickup with a darker natural voice rather than finding it through rolling down the tone control. Most lower output pickups tend to be brighter and most darker sounding pickups are higher output.

    I do like Lollar's Charlie Christian pickups, as they are quite loud but seems to resist breaking up a fair bit (I am not sure how they manage to do this. Something about the 38 gauge wire.) however I am also in the market for some humbuckers for the moment. (They also require fewer adjustments to your guitar.)

    It seemed to me that 57 would sound too 'edgey' for me.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by mateo2006
    I seem to want something that is difficult to have. A lower output pickup with a darker natural voice rather than finding it through rolling down the tone control. Most lower output pickups tend to be brighter and most darker sounding pickups are higher output.

    I do like Lollar's Charlie Christian pickups, as they are quite loud but seems to resist breaking up a fair bit (I am not sure how they manage to do this. Something about the 38 gauge wire.) however I am also in the market for some humbuckers for the moment. (They also require fewer adjustments to your guitar.)
    Try the Lollar CC hb-size. Very happy with mine, at least with SS amps and in full-depth archtops (less of a fan in thin-bodied instruments).

  22. #46

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    Marco I see you put a tun-o-matic on the 59RI. Better ?

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Marco I see you put a tun-o-matic on the 59RI. Better ?
    Due to fingertip pain, I have (at least for the time being) gone to 10 gauge strings (DR pure Blues) with a plain third. I need the TOM to have proper intonation. I am using nylon saddles to keep it "warm".

    If my hand heals and I go back to TI 12 flats (my days of 13's are over for good), the wood saddle will go back on. I prefer the dry, woody sound and quicker decay that the wood bridge affords.

  24. #48

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    How do you manage to use a strap on your ‘59 RI? I also have one, and the end pin comes right out. There is nothing securing it in place.

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M.
    How do you manage to use a strap on your ‘59 RI? I also have one, and the end pin comes right out. There is nothing securing it in place.
    My endpin is a tight fit. It sounds like yours needs some kind of shim.....

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Attachment 63446

    Mark Campellone is a believer in volutes.
    Some volutes are SPECIAL!