The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Dear All,

    I am at my wits end with the amplified tone of my Eastman AR803. I love the sound of my guitar acoustically, but when I plug in and dial it into performance volumes... YUCK!

    I currently have a Shadow AZ-49 pickup that is ring mounted. I usually play my guitar through a DV Mark Little Jazz.

    Here's the thing, I don't want to deal with anymore mud--I used to love darker sounding tones from my guitar--now I can't stand that darkness. I have decided 5 years ago that I want my guitar to retain it's natural brightness--everyone wants to tame the Eastman's tonal characteristics--I want to amplify them. At the same time, I'm not sure if I want to install a single coil or single coil-like pickup in my guitar because I'm afraid that the highs will be too brittle--does that make sense?

    Maybe I should get a low wind PAF? Maybe I should get a Benedetto B6.

    Here is a sample of my guitar--mostly acoustic (a smidge of amp):



    I play with a mixed set of round wounds: 14 17 26w 32 42 52 -- this string setup sounds really balanced for my guitar (I didn't think it would, but it does)

    This is the best I could get the guitar to sound amplified in a live setting:



    Disclaimer: I don't want to change my string type or gauge--I just want to find a pickup that works with my setup and brings out the brightness of my guitar (in a performance setting--not a bedroom session)

    Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I'll find a way to repay the favor. I'm really frustrated with this pickup situation

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  3. #2

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    A SD Antiquity, a humbucker sized p-90 or a humbucker sized Charlie Christian pickup would give a great sound like most of the players you might have listened to growing up but they also impart the distinctive sound of those pickups have.

    The Duncan Antiquity humbucker would sound much like most jazzers from the mid 60s era and onward, the CC pickup like an earlier era with a bit more clarity than PAF style humbucker and the p-90 is probably the most flexible with different sounds and instruments.
    This video goes through a lot of choices with hollow bodies:

    With CC pickups - Nice video

    Solid bodies mixed in but lots of pickups tested

    P90s without the hum
    My first choice after a CC pickup Charlie Christian for Humbucker Route: Lollar Pickups would be to get a Lollar humbucker-sized p90 wound like their 50s wind pickup. fralin will generally do this. I had a fralin humbucker sized p-90 and it was a bit underwhelming: Single Coil for Humbucker: Lollar Pickups
    Here are the 50s wind soapbar p90s with a thin bodied Casino

    But it sounds like you are looking for something to better create the acoustic sound you are hearing out of the instrument in the room. Nothing will do that as well as a microphone but that isn't so practical in many band environments.

    For that in a pickup people have been trying forever. I think Adrian Legg seems to have one of the most convincing acoustic sounds live without a mic but then he doesn't use an acoustic guitar any longer to produce it. Most people go for some type of piezo system but I tend to hate what they do to the attack but some are much more successful than others.

    Here are some approaches: The Ultimate Guide to Acoustic Guitar/Piezo Pickups for Stage and Studio
    Last edited by mateo2006; 06-30-2019 at 02:17 AM.

  4. #3

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    Depends on how much trouble you want to take and how much you want to move from the electric guitar realm you're in now over to the acoustic. I would start with a good EQ pedal. IMHO every rig should have one. Almost all amps fall down in this department. I use an Empress ParaEQ. There are other good ones out there. Next, you could try an amp made to replicate acoustic sounds. Schertler, Acus, Acoustic Image.. there are several out there. Next level involves soldering irons. - Swap to a Armstrong single coil handwound or a P90. More pickup noise. Crisper highs. Not harsh. Easy to live with. You may or may not like to end result but it will add in high's and, I think, in a good way. Finally you could add a K&K Definity using a stereo plug (cheap and relatively easy). Split out at the amp. Acoustic amp will work better. Definity takes lots of EQ but can sound OK. Most find microphones too much hassle.

  5. #4
    Dare I say the CC is closer to what I am hearing from my guitar acoustically... and the P92 sounds great as well.

    When I called Jason Lollar's shop, he recommended the El Rayo. The problem is, I've never heard the El Rayo in a hollow body. Most of Lollar's stuff on Youtube is recorded with Tele's, Strats, other Fenders, or Les Pauls. So I have no idea of what it will sound like in a carved top archtop.

    As a reference, I like the tone of the following guitarists:

    1. Graham Dechter--I know exactly what his guitar sounds like because I've heard it many a time in person

    2. Howard Alden's early stuff--I'm talking about that first record with George Van Eps. He's got this sparkel in his tone. I asked him about it, and he totally forgot about his Howard Roberts.

    3. Peter Bernstein on his Z--I know I'm not alone here.

    4. Grant Green, I love his tone as well Mateo!

    5. Kenny Burrell--hope he is doing okay. His tone floors me more than his melodic vocabulary--it's so present and has a hair of grit when he digs in that's absent these days.

    6. Johnny Smith

    7. Barry Greene--that's why I was thinking of the Benedetto B6.

    Adrian Legg is a monster, in the best possible way. The way he can manipulate his entire guitar--tuners included--is quite incredible.

    Thank you Mateo, that was really helpful. Spook, I think Gilad did something like that to his Victor Baker guitar--the first one. I just want to get a pickup and harness more of the brightness of my guitar without sounding tinny. The 14 up top helped my guitar speak better in the higher register. My guitar had a fake Kent stock, maybe I should look at the real thing? What about the B6?

    Are p90s essentially single coil? How does that effect the fullness of the top end of the guitar (playing on the b and high E beyond the meat of the guitar)?

    Okay, any other suggestions? I can give you all more samples of the guitar acoustically and electrically if that helps.

  6. #5

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    My first thought, although you've probably already tried this, is turning the volume and tone knobs up all the way and playing with the treble knob on your amp. The second would be looking at your choice of pick; a harder pick will typically yield a brighter tone. I carry several pics to gigs and will choose between them in an effort to add another bit of control over shaping of the tone. A third option would be taking the tone knob out of the circuit and going straight from the volume to the amp.

    In terms of pick up replacements, I have a Pete Biltoft CC humbucker-sized single coil pick up on my arch top which gets good clarity and the top notes are bright and clear without being harsh. If buzz is a problem, a lower wound humbucker may do the job such as a Gibson Classic 57, Dimarzio 36th Anniversary, Seymour Duncan "Jazz" are all pickups that tend to be a little brighter and clearer rather than warm and dark.

  7. #6

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    Hmm.. most of the folks you list are running a humbucker straight into an amp. A very electric sound. And mostly dark.

  8. #7
    Yupe, did that Cunamara. It helped, but still--MUD

  9. #8

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    Peter Biltoft also makes many of his pickups set up for easy magnet swaps and this might allow one to fine tune the pickup to the instrument without wasting too much money going through different pickups.

    Learn from my pain...

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Spook410
    Hmm.. most of the folks you list are running a humbucker straight into an amp. A very electric sound. And mostly dark.
    I think I wasn't explaining this right. My guitar isn't a floater--I'm not going to try to make a ring mount sound like a floater. I mean, I could patch up the top with the same spruce and screw a floater onto the end of the fretboard.

    What I meant was, I want a pickup that retains the brightness of the guitar. I like the sound of my guitar, that tonal spectrum. I wanted to find something that approximates that spectrum. Bright and full, without going pure tin.

    Now, about those CCs and P90s... When I play loud, will they break up? I like that driving sound to a point, but I really like clarity.

    Oh, I play with a 2mm Jazz BC 80. Surprisingly, that pick brought more warmth to my guitar--acoustically.

  11. #10

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    I love Kenny Burrel's tone. And Wes. To get that tone I think I need something similar to an L5 into a Fender amp. And maybe one day I'll try a Campellone to that end. For now I have a lot of Benedetto based carved, solid wood archtops similar to your Eastman running a gamut of acoustic to electric. I have floaters, built in humbuckers, single coils, K&K Definity, Surnrise, and a Rhythm Chief 1100. I run them into a Fender Concert, Roland Blues Cube Artist, Acus 350, Schertler Jam 150, and a Henriksen. All of them sound good. Some of them sound great. However, to my humble ears, none of them have a basic tone all that much like Wes or Kenny.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Are p90s essentially single coil? How does that effect the fullness of the top end of the guitar (playing on the b and high E beyond the meat of the guitar)?.
    They are absolutely single coils and so have trouble with 60 cycle hum but this is a bigger issue for playing distorted sounds.

    The CC pickups are also single coils and are susceptible to the same.

    Biltofts CC pickups are like later era CCs in that they use the same kind of wire as p90s but don't sound exactly like p90s. Lollars use the big 38 gauge magnetic wire and sound different. They are very loud and resist breaking up a bit more. The Brit company that makes the exact replica CC pickups will cost you two arms and a leg. They sound great on videos but even Slaman guitars says the difference is not great between lollars and the Brit CCs.

    Generally speaking, P90s tend to me a bit more mid focused.

    The CCs sound a bit closer to a humbucker.

    Burrell used CCs for many of his classic early recordings and later used p90s and then most latter era stuff is PAF output range humbuckers. (Gibson would probably use Gibson Classic 57s in a guitar made to recreate latter era Burrell sounds.)
    I'd rather have the mellower Antiquity or Seth Lovers
    I need a new pickup for my Eastman AR803-kenny-burrell-photo-2-jpg
    Grant Green used p90s for many of his classic early recordings but also had guitars with CC pickups and later humbuckers.
    I need a new pickup for my Eastman AR803-grant-green-cigarette-big-jpg
    Just as important for that "Midnight Blue" or "Idle Moments" sound would be the Rudy Van Gelder's house amp, a late 50s (probably 1959) Tweed Deluxe.

    I am not sure that this is a sound one would always want ... but what a great sound!

    I have a Kemper and so can change up my sound profiles pretty easily but I can't see how I can resist eventually getting a reproduction of a fender tweed from this era.
    I need a new pickup for my Eastman AR803-images-jpg
    Last edited by mateo2006; 06-30-2019 at 03:15 AM.

  13. #12
    I don't want to sound like a Gibson, I'm not playing a Gibson. Actually, I didn't like playing the vintage Gibsons I tried at Norm's before I left for greener pastures. The tops were too thick, I love feeling the guitar vibrate after each note--it's a sensory thing for me. And I like the sound of thin tops better as well. If I had the money, bought my forever home, and put my kid(s) through college--wait, one isn't enough --and still had money left over to be comfortable--I'd buy a Benedetto or another thin top arch top.

    That said... I feel like I didn't know what I was doing when I bought my Shadow AZ 49. Crazy thing is, are they even making them anymore? The pickup doesn't fit the guitar's true voice. But, then again, I didn't think the knock off Kent did either--maybe I was wrong?

    I want to do it right this time, but it's a tricky mod to get right--heck, I've modded the rest of my guitar so much that all that's left is the wood itself. New tuners, new bridge, new electronics (I gutted everything inside and started anew), new jumbo frets, new nut... I might be missing something. But the guitar, at least acoustically, sounds like me (if I was a guitar, that is).

    I feel like all that character is lost when I plug in and play through an amp, especially when I turn the volume up louder. I know that Eastmans can sound really pretty plugged in, I just haven't gotten there yet with mine

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    I don't want to sound like a Gibson, I'm not playing a Gibson. If I had the money, bought my forever home, and put my kid(s) through college--wait, one isn't enough --and still had money left over to be comfortable--I'd buy a Benedetto or another thin top arch top.
    Benedetto makes pickups too. But I think most them are based on the PAF style humbucker .

    A lot of jazzers like humbuckers with A2 or A3 magnets for the neck position. Quite a few are made with them. (Classic 57s, Seth Lovers, Antiquity) I think Fralin has some that use A3s

    Fralin Pickups: Learn All About Alnico Magnets and Tone



  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    What I meant was, I want a pickup that retains the brightness of the guitar. I like the sound of my guitar, that tonal spectrum. I wanted to find something that approximates that spectrum. Bright and full, without going pure tin ... I like that driving sound to a point, but I really like clarity.
    Burstbuckers?

  16. #15

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    FWIW, I believe that the Shadow AZ 49 is actually a single coil pickup.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    FWIW, I believe that the Shadow AZ 49 is actually a single coil pickup.
    I took one apart, and it appeared to be a centre-pointed humbucker: ie two coils either side of a central bar magnet. So yes, in effect it sounds like a single coil, since there is no phase cancellation in the coils and the sound will come from directly above that magnet. It is also low output, and ( to my ears anyway) very bright and thin.

  18. #17

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    Dare I suggest it: an Empress ParaEq or a Tech 21 NYC Q/Strip? A good buffer between your guitar and the amp helps heaps, if you do not want an EQ pedal. But everybody needs an EQ pedal, in my revised world order. The Empress and Tech 21 are naturally buffered so you don't need a separate one. The Tech 21 Q/Strip opened up my ears.

    The Atilla Zoller Shadow AZ49 is a nice pickup. Are you running a coily cable?

    Harmonic Designs has the Z90 that Rob Mackillop demos here:



    Too dark still?

  19. #18

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    If you like Graham Dechter's tone, John Carruthers made that floating pickup for him. $550 plus installation. I am sure he can make one for your ringmount. You have to send your guitar to John Carruthers.

  20. #19

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    Mad suggestion time: a contact microphone like the AKG411 or Schertler Dyn G blended in the mix with the AZ49?

  21. #20

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    I don't think there is a magnetic pickup that will give you that nice bright acoustic sound.

    I use a condenser mike clipped to the tailpiece aimed at the top just behind the bridge.

  22. #21

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    I thought your soundcloud clip sounded fine, it was clear and no ‘mud’ to me.

    I know almost nothing about pickups, so can’t help there!

  23. #22

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    I like the P-90 suggestions, and Porter makes a humbucker sized one.

    Some of these small pickup shops are quite willing to talk with you about what you're looking for; I'd call Porter or Amalfitano, etc. and chat with them.

    This being said, and I know the OP said this was a deal-breaker: heavy strings + heavy pick = "darker" sound, yet he's looking for "bright." Probably the EQ suggestions are a better place to start than the pickup ...?

  24. #23

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    The stock pots used by Eastman are possibly more at fault here; are they OEM and do you know the values? If you’re using a AZ pickup and getting mud on a guitar with an acoustic sound that you’re happy with, I just can’t imagine that a pickup swap is going to make you happy. I recommend looking into upgrading the tone pot before anything else.

  25. #24
    I’m with whisky.

    I was thinking of a treble bleed on the vol pot if you’re a volume rider like me, or even going to a 1Meg vol pot to attenuate that smoothness.

    Possibly playing with cap values on the tone pot if you’re a tone rider like me as well.

    It’s the cheapest thing I can think of, but it’s going to be a pain in the butt getting in there to play with all of it.

  26. #25

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    I actually found that soundclip to be pretty bright, especially for a set-in humbucker. I don't think a pickup swap is going to get you what you're looking for. The simplest way to get a more acoustic is with an acoustic simulator effect blended in with the pickup sound.

    You could install some sort of mic or under-saddle transducer that you can blend with the mag pickup, but that can be very complicated.

    John