The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Some of the numbers stated so far are a little off.

    Reverb charges a standard 3.5% on the sale price. If you are a preferred seller, you get a reduced fee on payments made through the Reverb site if 2.5%. So in my case Reverb charges me a total of 6% on a sale.

    Sold items listed in the “Guitars and Basses” category on eBay get charged 3.5%, instead of the usual 10% charged in n most categories. Presumably this came about because of rising competition from Reverb.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

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    I sold a guitar on Reverb last December ...

    After the fees and the shipping costs it felt like I took a beating

    Next time I will just start with lowball price on Craigslist before I move to Reverb


    If I do Reverb again I will try to not to ship in December when the Christmas rush could increase the time it takes to ship to the destination

  4. #78

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    I recently sold a guitar on reverb. After all was said and done, it came to about 10% of my selling price.

  5. #79

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    Depending on how you're taking payment (reverb direct vs paypal) it costs you 6-6.5%. If someone is telling you it's 30%, they are either grossly misinformed or lying.

  6. #80

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    Could he have been thinking of CME consignment fees when he said 30 percent?

  7. #81

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    Rhythmman I think you maybe right. I am going to put the Elferink on reverb but got confused by answer was I sent message to David at CME. I do think they own the rights to reverb.com but not sure. I was playing the Elferink yesterday and what a great axe a real salute to a D'Angelico NY in all respects, but if I keep it around I play my two real ones less.

  8. #82

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    Reverb and EBay both cost 3.5% plus 3% for Paypal (everyone uses this less than stellar company, so add that 3%). Then there is shipping which has gone up a LOT over the last 10 years. Unless you have a big commercial account, figure $100-$200 for Domestic shipping.

    If you are a private party, particularly without a long history of feedback, most buyers will want a discount from top dollar retail to buy from you on Reverb or Ebay.

    IMO, one can realize the same bottom line with a 20 percent consignment fee from the likes of archtop.com who does get top dollar retail when they sell a guitar.

    I try to sell locally on Craigslist. I have not sold a guitar on Ebay in a few years. I had a coupon for a free reverb sale, so I did sell a vintage pickup on Reverb recently, but at this point, if I had a guitar that I really wanted to sell and Craigslist was not working out, I am not sure if I would go the consignment route or use Ebay/Reverb. I guess the beauty of Ebay/Reverb is that you still get to play the guitar until it sells.

    One thing is for sure, I would not pay a 30 percent consignment fee when reputable dealers are out there who charge 20 percent.

  9. #83

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    One thing is i am reasonably known if you want to check up on me. I am not being egotistical but i have been around jazz guitar world,dealers, players, and builders 38 years. In the past i have always sold on my own by word of mouth and Ebay without taking any hit. Before the big tank in 2008-09 I scored on Ebay. I helped
    Bill Hollenbeck’s widow sell his shop and guitars so maybe I am too overconfident. I have even had dealers call me about some guitars happened recently with an Albanus. I also have found major issues with big name dealers giving wrong information this is a fact but will remain silent on names. One in particular a friend of mine many years ago sold his D’aquisto Excel... real deal Daquisto, the top had been replaced by another guitar maker. This guitar was listed and sold by a known national dealer and this restoration never mentioned at all. Got top dollar and to me this is immoral/unscrupulous.

    The market for archtops is way down so have to realize the situation. I am generally against all consignments because in the past i do much better. My problem is buyers who are overly picky and looking for ways to cut price. Most guitars after 10 years have some wear even if played little. When I buy a guitar like a Super 400 that is 20 years old, I expect some checking of finish, a ding, frets, ect... Some buyers do not understand cosmetic versus structural issues. I have had some look a finish crack and say it is a structural crack. Garbage i do this for living i know the difference. Buyers to me,can start picking out every finish flaw or ding like it is a real evil. Even new guitars I can pick apart myself.

  10. #84

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    You will get a lot of lowball offers on Reverb so be prepared to just ignore these a holes.

    Numerous times I've had the same person send the same offer. I've asked Reverb to block a person.

    I've had offers messaged to me when I don't elect to allow buyers to Make Offer.

    and, yes, shipping costs have skyrocketed and the handling has got worse, at least for UPS. When I first started buying, shipping was about 40% of current cost (through my office) and eBay and Bing were doing 10% cash back on purchases (up to $200 back). No limit on number of items. The good ol days.

    Definitely open an online account vs paying retail shipping. FedEx will pick up for free.

  11. #85

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    ^^I'm pretty sure that shipping is quite a bit cheaper if you use Reverb's shipping options. I had them provide my shipping labels and they were much cheaper than if I had printed off my own account. I assume you get their corporate rate or something. Pack it yourself and leave it off at a UPS store or Fed ex for that matter. I've had good luck selling on Reverb knock wood.

  12. #86

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    You are correct. If you use Reverb’s shipping tool, you get a significant discount, even significant over a personal account. Also, they will insure it for a reasonable fee.

  13. #87

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    What significant savings are you seeing? My price is basically the same with FedEx online and Reverb for me. UPS was a little more.

    Shipped a guitar a month ago through Reverb. First time. Don’t remember if you can schedule a pickup through Reverb.

  14. #88

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    I check prices of jazz guitars all the time and keep a head full of information. One thing I know for certain very few of the dealers (?)/individuals on reverb or even ebay post what I call reasonable prices. To me I see guitars for sale for years and they don't move. I ask myself this question. Do they really want to sell them or are they just trying to see if someone will come along and they don't really have to sell to make a living?

    Checking the price of Gibson L5 and Super 400's reveals to me inflated prices in most cases. The true vintage ones I can see going for a bit more but frankly I don't think they are selling a thing. If you make and offer which I am not opposed to at all if it is an option it makes you seem like low-baller but frankly I am lost. Maybe these folks are like myself and do not depend on music as such to make a living, either selling or playing guitars. In that case it is just a bunch of individuals that are asking unrealistic prices.

    Ok I have ranted for today.

  15. #89

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    Mark

    You have asked a questions that I often wonder about. I had one local dealer tell me the market has really changed in recent years. The message I got is that no one wants to pay more than the lowest price a guitar last sold for on the Reverb site. I had another small shop tell me he tells his friends to sell their archtops now. "That market is never coming back".

    I have a Santa Cruz OM flattop from mid 90s. I have no idea what that guitar is worth. Asking prices for SCGC OM guitars are all over the map. Not sure if the average user can get access to Sold prices on Reverb.

    I often wonder how Vintage dealers do things and make money, whether they borrow the money or take it from their own investment accounts. Vintage stuff does seem to hang around in lot of these shops for years.

    Danielle
    Last edited by DanielleOM; 06-21-2019 at 10:08 AM. Reason: spelling correction

  16. #90

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    ISTM the normal thing on Reverb, ebay, etc is to start with a price much higher than one expects to get, then negotiate down from there. Buyers expect to get a price drop, so if you start with the price you expect to get, you'll end up with less, or not sell at all. It may not be the ideal process, but that's what has evolved, and it's counterproductive to try to change what everyone has become accustomed to. I don't take the posted price on Reverb as the actual selling price. I'm not even sure how you can find the actual selling price for items you don't sell or buy.

  17. #91

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    Take this guitar for example. Gibson Crimson Custom Shop LeGrand Le Grand 2013 Natural | Reverb

    It does interest me but not at the price at all. I am not in Europe so to me this guitar is maybe $7k to make it a decent deal at least for myself.

    So then we have this. Gibson L5 Wes Montgomery 2010 Wine Red | Woodstock Guitars | Reverb

    insane price and even if new no where near what it will sell for, so to me if the person wants to sell it they better at least drop the price to below $7k for sure.

    I just don't get it at all. I do notice that when things sell the prices are what I consider generally ok. That happens here in the forum on the for sale section all the time.

  18. #92

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    Once professional guitar dealers jumped on the Reverb bandwagon, asking prices skyrocketed. Its the same insanity on Gbase. I have no idea how many of them make any money.

    OTOH...I've found private sellers on Reverb often willing to accept reasonable offers on gear...including archtops.

  19. #93

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    I agree with Gitfiddler. You see the same Polytone amps, for example, hanging around unsold forever, being offered by dealers.

    Meanwhile, a few days ago a private seller offered his late-70s MiniBrute II and matching extension cabinet for sale at a very reasonable price. They were in quite good shape. BAM! sold in a day.

    Yeah, gBase has really elevated into the stratosphere over the last decade.

  20. #94

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    1956 Gibson L7 CN, Blonde (#GAT0119) | Garys Classic Guitars & Vintage Guitars LLC

    These have been listed for sale * at this same price * for at least five years ! I found one exactly like it - - with a period McCarty p/u - same condition and paid $5000. - -3+ years ago.

    Was offered $3000. ( !! ) for that same guitar on a trade last year at Dave's, and was recently told by another dealer here that he'd have a hard time getting $4000. for it.

    And Dave's is a good store and fair with his prices. ( No affiliation ). And FWIW, Dave's is a good place to watch prices and availability, because they are offered there for real hard money.

    FYI and hope that helps.

  21. #95

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    One can look at what sold for on EBay to get an accurate picture of value. Asking prices mean very little. Sold prices mean much more.

    My experience is that dealers who are motivated (meaning their cash flow is not where they might like) will take far less than an asking price for an item if so offered.

    If you are not good at negotiating, buy new and keep it forever. The market for used stuff favors those who know how to deal. Always has and always will. Though the truth is that good negotiation skills work well in the marketplace for new stuff as well. EVERYTHING is negotiable.

    The main reason all these inflated prices are out there is the free advertising that the Internet provides. It costs nothing to put a guitar on the web at a nosebleed price and see what happens.

    One should offer what one is willing to pay and not worry about being called a lowballer. The worst that could happen is that the seller will decline. And from time to time, a win-win deal will happen (you know, a deal where both sides are happy with the outcome).

  22. #96

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    Not to pick on them but Gary's is consistently top dollar, they always do seem to have the blonde's and blonde's undeniably draw a premium, but its hard to say if that premium is reasonable. As your research has shown this example has been on the market for a long long time, which I can only interpret as "he doesn't care about selling it" which I guess is some sort of statement and tells me that some dealers I may never understand. Hanging on to inventory for years and years doesn't make a lot of sense.

  23. #97

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    That's a cool rant. Oooh, prices, me favourite topic.

    First, Gibson Crimson Custom; Gibson Crimson Custom Shop debuted in 2012 and saw a marked price increase in 2014-2015 or so of about 20% to 29%. Gibson dropped MSRP at this time. Natural finish always attracted a premium of about $1500 to $2000 over Antique Sunburst. Couple to that UK VAT of 20% and other duties, shipping and you are looking at a mark up of 25% to 30% in the UK over USA domestic prices. The MAP on a Le Grand Natural was about $11 499 to $12 499 in 2013.

    Then there is the dealer's commission of between 10% and 20% with 15% being the norm. So, that $9799 2013 Le Grand in the USA would be priced at $8082.50. Take away the dealer's 20%, Paypal's 2.9%, Reverb's 3.5% and you are left with $6394.38. OK, about $6400 which sounds about right if you tried to sell it on your own as that is its market value in the USA; a dealer like The Music Zoo would price it at $7680 and indeed TMZ has. I paid $5850 for my 2012 Le Grand ASB shipped from Tokyo, Japan.

    Of course, its being in the UK it makes no sense for someone outside of the EU to buy it as you won't get that VAT and duties originally paid on the 2013 Le Grand back. It only makes sense to someone in the EU as that would be the price he would pay to import one himself.

    Denmark has a VAT of 25%. Assume another 5% for duty and other fees. So, 30%. A 2010 L5 WM Wine Red in mint condition has a value of about $5000; ASB is worth about $5250. $5000 x 1.30 x 1.20 x 1.064 = $8299.20. $9359.07 for a bit of wiggle room-the USD-EUR daily fluctuations may have a part to play in that figure.
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-21-2019 at 02:16 PM.

  24. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Once professional guitar dealers jumped on the Reverb bandwagon, asking prices skyrocketed. Its the same insanity on Gbase. I have no idea how many of them make any money.

    OTOH...I've found private sellers on Reverb often willing to accept reasonable offers on gear...including archtops.

    Interesting perspective. Local shops have told me Reverb has brought selling prices down. However the conversation was not limited to high end archtops. I do note Reverb automatically treats an offer less than 65% of listed price as a lowball offer.

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by ugarte
    Not to pick on them but Gary's is consistently top dollar, they always do seem to have the blonde's and blonde's undeniably draw a premium, but its hard to say if that premium is reasonable. As your research has shown this example has been on the market for a long long time, which I can only interpret as "he doesn't care about selling it" which I guess is some sort of statement and tells me that some dealers I may never understand. Hanging on to inventory for years and years doesn't make a lot of sense.

    I know Gary and he really does not care if he sells guitars. My take is he does other things for money or has and now plays in great guitars. With him I know the story. Otherwise I would love to have his Albanus guitar one of only 2 or 4 with special headstock. But at 12k$ it won’t be mine. Frankly to me it is worth $7500 but I cannot see then it selling to fast. I should mention this is a killer guitar all Albanus guitars are sound generators

  26. #100

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    Gary Dick has the nicest guitars. He only offers the ones in best condition. If I don't want to play the lottery I will buy from Gary Dick as I know they will be perfect. That is Gary's spiel. For that, he charges a premium and deservedly so. The other guy is Larry Wexer.

    That said, it is not impossible to score a good deal off Gary Dick. A few years ago, Gary had a 20XX Super 400C ASB with a Lollar Fingerrest Pickup for sale. Gary wanted $8450 for it. It was in splendid condition. I thought I could get it for lower elsewhere and declined the offer. It was sold shortly after and I have been on the lookout for one ever since then to no avail. They are rare as hen's teeth. $8450 was a fair price for it after all. That Lollar Fingerrest P90 alone is about $475 to $575 if Jason agrees to make it for you today.