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  1. #51

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    Holy cra# Jack, that's a terrible grounding solution. Bound to fail.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984 View Post
    True replicas would be these, I guess

    Tube-Tone Amplifiers

    Or these, althoug he makes a jazz custom I believe he'll do right by specs

    Vintage Sound Amps
    I don't see any replies to the above recommendation (Vintage Sound Amps). VS advertises high quality Fender blackface clones, attempting to replicate their tone.
    They offer a 35 watt "Vintage 35" in both combo (2x10) and head configuration, using only top shelf components. The cost is around $2k.

    Sure seems like less risk than buying vintage.

    VINTAGE 35 (Vibrolux Style 2x10) – Vintage Sound Amps

  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler View Post
    I don't see any replies to the above recommendation (Vintage Sound Amps). VS advertises high quality Fender blackface clones, attempting to replicate their tone.
    They offer a 35 watt "Vintage 35" in both combo (2x10) and head configuration, using only top shelf components. The cost is around $2k.

    Sure seems like less risk than buying vintage.

    VINTAGE 35 (Vibrolux Style 2x10) – Vintage Sound Amps
    Someone replied on another forum that they had 1 blackface and 1 silverface fender as well as a vintage sound amp and that the vintage sound amp didn't really nail the fender sound

  5. #54

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    I used to have a Vibrolux Reverb that I liked a lot, but it was often too loud and too noisy. The Gries 35 really satisfied my desire for that sound. Dead quiet and a very usable master volume. I'm not real technical, so I can't comment on what Dave Gries did to the circuit. The challenge for me was finding the right speaker.

    I do hear you about the Fender sound. I have a '68 Twin Reverb and every time I turn it on that sound is right there; I can hear the metal of the strings coming through. I'm not about to lug that thing around, though.

  6. #55

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    I had a Showman and a Twin Reverb that were permanent house amps...unwilling to lug them.

  7. #56

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    Now, the Bassman amps are in the same category

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encinitastubes View Post
    I used to have a Vibrolux Reverb that I liked a lot, but it was often too loud and too noisy. The Gries 35 really satisfied my desire for that sound. Dead quiet and a very usable master volume. I'm not real technical, so I can't comment on what Dave Gries did to the circuit. The challenge for me was finding the right speaker.

    I do hear you about the Fender sound. I have a '68 Twin Reverb and every time I turn it on that sound is right there; I can hear the metal of the strings coming through. I'm not about to lug that thing around, though.
    Which speaker did you end up with?

  9. #58

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    Weber 12F150, but only after significant break in.

  10. #59

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    the bandmaster only puts about 400v on the plates of the 6L6 tubes and has a tiny OT so it's pretty low headroom. The fargens are based on that design. It's been a while since I've had a bandmaster reverb but my gut tells me I want something a little closer to the classic AB763 design. For example, a pro reverb that I can upgrade the OT with. And I really think the tube reverb is an essential part of the fender circuit design so that's why I definitely want a head with reverb.
    The early silverface Pro Reverbs were the same circuit as the blackface, from what I have read on the interwebs, but sell for a lot less. My understanding is that many silverface amps can be readily blackfaced. Might be an option.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  12. #61

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    Yeah, Cunamara.

    I had an early silverface Pro Reverb years ago. Just about the best Fender amp I ever had.

  13. #62
    the pro has the same tiny OT as the bandmaster but has the higher voltages of a twin. If you put bigger iron in it, it's a very stout amp with tons of headroom. My latest thing is to buy a rebuilt vibroverb or vibrolux. allesandro will hand-wire a reissue fender. I'm thinking of buying a reissue '68 vibrolux and having him convert it to hand-wired blackface spec with a 12" baffle. Apparently the reissue vibrolux only weighs 41lbs with 2 10" speakers so with a single 12" neodymium speaker it should be around 36-38lbs

  14. #63
    by the way, here's a good article on the differences between the real and reissue (PCB) amps. It's not just the PCBs that are different. I think Fuchs and Glaswerks and Mesa have proven that you can get great tone with PCBs but in fender's case there are other changes that make a difference.

    Also, if you've ever had to replace a component on these note how difficult it is because you have to remove the board and in some cases, the pots and jacks as well...

    Ask Amp Man: Upgrading a Fender Custom Vibrolux Reverb | Premier Guitar

  15. #64

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    Amen on board level repair on the Fender pcbs. It's computer work.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    isn't that a 20w 6v6 amp?
    Yes, you're probably correct. I must admit that I'm somewhat confused on the tubes as mine has 2 6l6's and I believe 20w (as quoted on the Victoria Amps website) is low. The 2x12" Victorilux is said to also have 2 6l6's and be 45w.

    My intended point, though, was that Mark Baier of Victoria Amps knows his Fender amps (he's got several different models out based on tweed, blackface and silverface designs) and can build you what you need if he doesn't already offer one in the configuration you're looking for

  17. #66
    i think i'm going to order the marsh vibrolux reverb clone.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    anyone try the pure 64? thoughts?
    I have a Mean Streets Classic head/cab. 2 x 6v6, so probably not what you need. Excellent amp though. A worthy clean sound, which is why I looked for one for years.
    MD

  19. #68

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    Stew Mac has a line of amp kits using new parts but old tech.

    Half the price and not that difficult.

    Amplifier Kits | stewmac.com

  20. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by mad dog View Post
    I have a Mean Streets Classic head/cab. 2 x 6v6, so probably not what you need. Excellent amp though. A worthy clean sound, which is why I looked for one for years.
    MD
    they make a 50w 6L6 version

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    the pro has the same tiny OT as the bandmaster but has the higher voltages of a twin. If you put bigger iron in it, it's a very stout amp with tons of headroom.
    Use a SS rectifier a la Twin and the clean headroom improves because there's less sag, even with the stock OT.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    the pro has the same tiny OT as the bandmaster but has the higher voltages of a twin. If you put bigger iron in it, it's a very stout amp with tons of headroom. My latest thing is to buy a rebuilt vibroverb or vibrolux. allesandro will hand-wire a reissue fender. I'm thinking of buying a reissue '68 vibrolux and having him convert it to hand-wired blackface spec with a 12" baffle. Apparently the reissue vibrolux only weighs 41lbs with 2 10" speakers so with a single 12" neodymium speaker it should be around 36-38lbs
    The non-reverb Bandmaster has output stage voltages within 20V of a Twin Reverb. It also has a SS rectifier. The Vibrato channel is weak, but the Normal channel has some punch. I have a ‘68 drip edge waiting for me to recap it.
    Last edited by KirkP; 06-25-2019 at 01:21 AM.

  23. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    The non-reverb Bandmaster has output stage voltages within 20V of a Twin Reverb. It also has a SS rectifier. The Vibrato channel is weak, but the Normal channel has some punch. I have a ‘68 drip edge waiting for me to recap it.
    for me, reverb is such an integral part of the fender sound I need the reverb to be there. I hate being dependent on a pedal for that basic function

  24. #73

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    Buy a Fender BF reissue and stick a vintage speaker in it, maybe some NOS tubes. It will sound very "Fenderish", especially in the mix.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    Who makes a true 35w blackface fender reverb amp clone in a 1x12 form factor or head? I've tried allen, fargen, morgan and several others which have "improved" upon the fender sound but TBH, none of them have an authentic fender sound. I have a fargen and morgan and love them both but yesterday, I stopped at guitar center and briefly played through a twin reissue and it just blew the morgan and fargen away in terms of pure, fender goodness. I don't want to deal with PC board amps so I won't buy a reissue fender but who is making a REAL fender amp clone? The ones that I know about are vintage sound, headstrong, victoria. Most of the others like carr, tone king, fargen, allen, heritage made "improvements" that take away from the fender sound and I really just like the fender sound.
    Hi Jack!

    Earlier I mentioned Music Man amps as good substitutes but I saw you didn’t like them. For a while ago I recommended Blackstar Studio 10 6L6 on another thread. 1x12" Celestion speaker, 10 watts (unfortunately not 35 watts), reverb and effects loop. Here in Europe it costs generally between 600-700 €.
    Have I found it yet? I said that but I didn’t knew it. Did I knew that I had found it yet? No, it wasn’t what I was looking for. Nevermind. Ok.

    -Pataphysical monologue based on Cartesian theory

  26. #75

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    Bob


  27. #76
    i saw that. A new Marsh springfield is almost $700 less!

  28. #77

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    I have zero experience seeing, playing or hearing any of Mike Marsh’s amps. I guess I always thought of them as being akin to Mojotone and Weber. I have played and heard a number of Lou Rosano’s amps and all sound great within the vintage tone paradigm, hence the recommendation.

    Good Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    i saw that. A new Marsh springfield is almost $700 less!
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________________
    Bob


  29. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Bbmaj7#5#9 View Post
    Hi Jack!

    Earlier I mentioned Music Man amps as good substitutes but I saw you didn’t like them. For a while ago I recommended Blackstar Studio 10 6L6 on another thread. 1x12" Celestion speaker, 10 watts (unfortunately not 35 watts), reverb and effects loop. Here in Europe it costs generally between 600-700 €.
    I've owned the music man HD amps several times and never really bonded with it. I think they do things backwards, i.e. solid state preamp, tube power amp. Many modern amp designers like milkman, alembic, demeter, kingsley, fuchs and henriksen are now combining a fender based tube preamp with a SS poweramp. I think that's the way to go for hybrid.

    However, for me, I'm looking for the fender sound. The blackstar doesn't really get that and 10w just isn't enough for me. Even 40w struggles with certain drummers I play with but it'll work so 35w-40w based on a real fender circuit (not "improved" like allen, morgan, fargen, carr) is the way I want to go...

  30. #79

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    Jack,

    The stuff from Marsh is good stuff. I have built a couple of their kits with good results. Good quality and good sound as a result.

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    for me, reverb is such an integral part of the fender sound I need the reverb to be there. I hate being dependent on a pedal for that basic function
    I love spring reverb too, but it adds a lot of weight for the extra transformer, tube, pots and tank. My old Boss RV3 is a poor substitute for a spring reverb, but aren’t there much more convincing digital reverbs on the market now?

  32. #81
    it doesn't add that much weight. A medium pan, 2 tubes and transformer are under 2 lbs
    Last edited by jzucker; 06-26-2019 at 01:14 PM.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    I love spring reverb too, but it adds a lot of weight for the extra transformer, tube, pots and tank. My old Boss RV3 is a poor substitute for a spring reverb, but aren’t there much more convincing digital reverbs on the market now?
    The Boss FRV-1 does a great spring reverb emulation; I can’t hear the difference with my Twin Reverbs spring reverb!



    But it means carrying an extra device and power supply with you.

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  34. #83

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    Not what you’re looking for Jack (i.e not a BF clone), but I am more adding to the topic based on the tube reverb/weight/size discussion.

    I chose to exclude tube reverb on my “grab-n-go” 30 lb., 40w, 6L6, 1 x 12” (Jensen Jet Tornado Neo) combo amp. The weight multiplier for a reverb was more than just the parts that you mention. A tube reverb also required a 17” chassis vs. the 15” chassis that I have and a larger cabinet as well. It actually added about + 5 lb. in my particular amp. I have been happy using a pedal (Neunaber Wet Reverb) in my effects loop (post pre-amp). I personally prefer time domain effects after the pre-amp particularly if I push the amp a bit.
    Last edited by iim7V7IM7; 06-27-2019 at 05:26 AM.
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________________
    Bob


  35. #84
    We all have different tastes. I hated the FRV-1 pedal. I thought it sounded plasticy and nothing like a real fender reverb. The source audio and ventris true spring are the only 2 pedals that I have liked as much as spring reverb (in the abstract) but having the reverb inside the amp and between the preamp and power amp just sounds so much better to me than having it in front of a fender amp that even if the reverb is great and practically indistinguishable from real spring, the real spring wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay View Post
    The Boss FRV-1 does a great spring reverb emulation; I can’t hear the difference with my Twin Reverbs spring reverb!



    But it means carrying an extra device and power supply with you.

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker View Post
    ... but having the reverb inside the amp and between the preamp and power amp just sounds so much better to me than having it in front of a fender amp ...
    Putting a reverb in an effects loop should accomplish that, but I understand your other objections.

  37. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    Putting a reverb in an effects loop should accomplish that, but I understand your other objections.
    Vintage amps don't have effect loops typically and besides, even the ventris doesn't nail spring reverb 100%