The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    FWIW the comparison was between Mesa 6L6s and Mesa EL34's. The difference in sound was dramatic.
    Yes, I know. Sorry for being slightly off topic. Just pointing out that it might be worth trying some "better" tubes although for my tastes, the Mk series amps were over filtered and had huge transformers - making them great at concert volumes but sterile at most jazz gig volumes.

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  3. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    What - Is this politics ? Are you accusing me of flip-flopping?
    “To improve is to change, so to be perfect is to have changed often.” —Winston Churchill

  4. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar

    For example, I plug in at the beginning of a gig and absolutely hate my sound -- in the same room as last week, with the same gear. Then, with no real changes it sounds okay to me for the second set.
    Don't you mean the guitar opened up and the speaker and transformers broke in? Just kidding. I'm not a believer in the voodoo of speaker break in and such. IMO, if a speaker sounds terrible out of the box, it will always sound terrible. I have recorded speakers right out of the box and then again 50-100 hours later and can't hear any difference - but then again, I also can't hear the difference in cable polarity or alkaline vs lead acid batteries either.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Yes, I know. Sorry for being slightly off topic. Just pointing out that it might be worth trying some "better" tubes although for my tastes, the Mk series amps were over filtered and had huge transformers - making them great at concert volumes but sterile at most jazz gig volumes.
    I liked the sound fine. What I didn't like was the weight. If I take it out to a gig I'm afraid my house might float away.
    And, then, in my practice room, somebody complained about the fan noise (not a joke), which is no louder than the day I bought it. Rather, everything else is quieter. Oh, I also didn't like the way the controls interacted. Need a bit more treble? Be prepared to adjust every knob on the amp. Dialed in, it was a chorus of angels, but it could be a slog to get to that point.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Don't you mean the guitar opened up and the speaker and transformers broke in? Just kidding. I'm not a believer in the voodoo of speaker break in and such. IMO, if a speaker sounds terrible out of the box, it will always sound terrible. I have recorded speakers right out of the box and then again 50-100 hours later and can't hear any difference - but then again, I also can't hear the difference in cable polarity or alkaline vs lead acid batteries either.
    I never bought the boutique power cable with all the electrons standing at attention.

    My point was that the same gear in the same place could sound different to me with no actual change whatsoever. Or, stated another way, my perceptual process has a major influence on how I experience the gear.

    Beyond that, the room and the stage plot are all major sound variables that are also external to the amp itself. The room, especially. I am especially wary of playing near large amounts of glass. Apparently, it's too reflective and everything sounds awful every time no matter how I tweak. Not necessarily to the audience -- but to me, which makes it harder to play.

  7. #81

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    Does yours have an EV? Mind did. I once did a gig and had to carry that and my guitar 2 blocks because the hotel wouldn't let me pull up in front. That was before I had a cart. It was also when I was in my '20s!

    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I never bought the boutique power cable with all the electrons standing at attention.

    My point was that the same gear in the same place could sound different to me with no actual change whatsoever. Or, stated another way, my perceptual process has a major influence on how I experience the gear.

    Beyond that, the room and the stage plot are all major sound variables that are also external to the amp itself. The room, especially. I am especially wary of playing near large amounts of glass. Apparently, it's too reflective and everything sounds awful every time no matter how I tweak. Not necessarily to the audience -- but to me, which makes it harder to play.

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Does yours have an EV? Mind did. I once did a gig and had to carry that and my guitar 2 blocks because the hotel wouldn't let me pull up in front. That was before I had a cart. It was also when I was in my '20s!
    Black Shadow.

    I bought it at the factory (I live nearby) and got separate head and cab because even in my 30s I couldn't imagine carrying the combo unit. It felt like it was bolted to a steel plate on the other side of the Earth. The cab isn't so bad, but the head is very unpleasant to carry. It's the long head. I wanted all the controls on the front, for some reason.

  9. #83

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    So I'm thinking a Fender SuperChamp X2 might be a decent compromise between tube amp simplicity and SS light weight and effects. It has a line out in case 15 (tube) Watts through a 10" speaker isn't enough. 24 lbs! (I'm old.) Price seems good, too ($400 new). I was looking at a Katana KTN-100, but it just sounds so... lifeless and mechanical to my ears. The Pro Jr IV sounds good, but no line out and it's $100 more than the SCX2. Any thoughts?

  10. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    not if they are filter caps which is likely the case.
    In tube equipment even filter caps are a easy fix. If you have to have exact new old stock replacements then not so much.

  11. #85
    In my experience if a tube amp dies by far the most likely culprit is a blown fuse or tube. Afterall they are not meant to last. If the fuse(s) gets blown frequently then there is a bigger problem.

  12. #86
    Fuse problems are easy to diagnose with a voltmeter. For tubes I'd check if all the filaments are glowing. If not, you found your problem. If the are all glowing, it can still be tube problem. Tube swapping is necessary. In some cases you don't even need extra tubes. But you usually do.

  13. #87
    That's one plus for the tube amps. If you're SS amp dies, it goes to landfill.

  14. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Black Shadow.

    I bought it at the factory (I live nearby) and got separate head and cab because even in my 30s I couldn't imagine carrying the combo unit. It felt like it was bolted to a steel plate on the other side of the Earth. The cab isn't so bad, but the head is very unpleasant to carry. It's the long head. I wanted all the controls on the front, for some reason.
    Rick,

    Black Shadow is the name Mesa puts on their speakers from all sources. In the era of the Mark III, that would have been an English made Celestion unless you paid the upgrade for the EV, but both speakers were labeled Black Shadow.

    I had a 1991 Mark IV with the EV Black Shadow speaker that sounded great for jazz at all volumes with 6L6 tubes. I tried to lighten my load with the Black Shadow Celestion, but could not dial in a good jazz tone at any volume so the EV went back in. By my mid 50's, the 65 pound amp was too heavy and got sold. Today I have a 1988 50 Calibur that has the Black Shadow Celestion and sounds great for jazz at all volumes with its stock EL 84 (yes the first generation 50 Caliburs used the little EL84 tubes) tubes. At 45 pounds, it is manageable and with 50 watts of tube power, it will play louder than I will ever need.

  15. #89

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    Regarding flip-flopping, I think it's a sign of intelligence to change one's mind in light of new facts. Those so inflexible as to never change their minds are not a source of intelligent conversation, nor are they especially worthy of political positions in Government :-)

    Now SS, Vs. tube for CLEAN (staying on OP topic sorry)

    So the OP question. "A good SS amp and a tube amp using the same cabinet played clean. Is there really identifiable difference between the tube paradigm vs SS paradigm design" and "differences between the tube vs similar quality non-tube amps almost always about the overdriven sounds"

    The operative words are "GOOD SS AMP" and "similar quality".

    IMO it's possible, identifiable? side by side? Maybe, maybe not but onstage or in the studio we don't do that.

    There's a scad of great SS mini heads, and combo oldsters like the Polytones that have lots of range and beautiful tone, but to squeeze more out of an SS amp (I haven't found one without modeling) I'd have to say if it's not configurable the likelihood of coming close to a tube amp is not gonna happen.

    Nobody debates that a new Twin Reverb (at $1300-$1500 up) will fill the bill for many players, but in keeping with the OP's statement: "similar quality" that leaves the stable rather sparsely populated.

    So the three bands that come to mind are Kemper, Positive Grid, and and Quilter. There may be more but I don't care about them, (see flip flopping below) IMO looking into those three brands will likely yield the best results.

    Back to flip flopping...

    I played a number of "cheap modelers" none came near my expectations and I was rather closed minded about them.

    When I played the Positive Grid I flip-flopped, and I'm happily ignorant of others so sue me :-)

    PS, regarding SS failures... Many commercial active parts today are of similar quality to military stuff of recent history. A well designed and assembled amp that's taken care of should have a long service life. PCB's in all amps today (even tubes unless hand wired) ALL have that common failure point, drop it and it goes pffffttt.

  16. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    That's one plus for the tube amps. If you're SS amp dies, it goes to landfill.
    Not at all.

    When my Fishman quit it was replaced out of warranty for $50 + shipping. Less than replacing a full set of tubes.

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Rick,

    Black Shadow is the name Mesa puts on their speakers from all sources. In the era of the Mark III, that would have been an English made Celestion unless you paid the upgrade for the EV, but both speakers were labeled Black Shadow.

    I had a 1991 Mark IV with the EV Black Shadow speaker that sounded great for jazz at all volumes with 6L6 tubes. I tried to lighten my load with the Black Shadow Celestion, but could not dial in a good jazz tone at any volume so the EV went back in. By my mid 50's, the 65 pound amp was too heavy and got sold. Today I have a 1988 50 Calibur that has the Black Shadow Celestion and sounds great for jazz at all volumes with its stock EL 84 (yes the first generation 50 Caliburs used the little EL84 tubes) tubes. At 45 pounds, it is manageable and with 50 watts of tube power, it will play louder than I will ever need.
    Marc,

    Thanks for that info. Is there any well to tell, by looking, which one it is?

    I don't recall being offered a choice of speaker, but it was a long time ago. Interesting that it made such a dramatic difference.

    My experience was that it sounded great at all volumes. It may be relevant that I don't play archtops or with what might be considered a classic jazz tone.

  18. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by BBGuitar
    Not at all.

    When my Fishman quit it was replaced out of warranty for $50 + shipping. Less than replacing a full set of tubes.
    Exactly, "replaced" not fixed. But that's not really related to my point. My point is repairability of SS amps vs tube, which is important as warranties expire. There is usually warranty on tubes when you get a new tube amp too and if they do blow during that period, fixing the issue doesn't require shipment to the manufacturer.
    Even PCB tube amps are easier to repair than solid state amps I believe. Many tube amp problems can be repaired by a savvy owner with the help of google and youtube. SS amps not so much.

  19. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Marc,

    Thanks for that info. Is there any well to tell, by looking, which one it is?

    I don't recall being offered a choice of speaker, but it was a long time ago. Interesting that it made such a dramatic difference.

    My experience was that it sounded great at all volumes. It may be relevant that I don't play archtops or with what might be considered a classic jazz tone.
    post a picture. The ev will have a giant gold magnet

  20. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Exactly, "replaced" not fixed. But that's not really related to my point. My point is repairability of SS amps vs tube, which is important as warranties expire. There is usually warranty on tubes when you get a new tube amp too and if they do blow during that period, fixing the issue doesn't require shipment to the manufacturer.
    Even PCB tube amps are easier to repair than solid state amps I believe. Many tube amp problems can be repaired by a savvy owner with the help of google and youtube. SS amps not so much.
    still not true. I had my clarus repaired several times by AI

  21. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    still not true. I had my clarus repaired several times by AI
    True, I was actually gonna say, it's feasible to get expensive SS amps repaired. I know people who got their polytones and Henriksen's repaired. The cheaper ones would be more expensive to repair then to replace. The problem is when they break, I don't think you can just bring them to your local guitar tech/store for repairs like you would with a tube amp. Also again many tube amp problems can be at least diagnosed much more easily by a non specialist.

  22. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Marc,

    Thanks for that info. Is there any well to tell, by looking, which one it is?

    I don't recall being offered a choice of speaker, but it was a long time ago. Interesting that it made such a dramatic difference.

    My experience was that it sounded great at all volumes. It may be relevant that I don't play archtops or with what might be considered a classic jazz tone.
    it should say somewhere on the speaker. The EV has a seriously big magnet. If you look at a picture online of an EV guitar speaker, you will know if yours is an EV.

  23. #97

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    My Clarus Series 1 has a lifetime transferable warranty, and cost me ~$300. I used the warranty once, to fix a minor noise problem. If you're talking about ~$50 amps, then I agree they're disposable. But they don't have to cost >$1000 to be fixable. Now ink-jet printers are disposable. You can buy a new printer for less than the cost of a set of ink cartridges. That has been the case for 20 years or more. Printer manufacturers use the Gillette business model. Give the razor away and make money selling blades once the customer is locked in.

  24. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    it should say somewhere on the speaker. The EV has a seriously big magnet. If you look at a picture online of an EV guitar speaker, you will know if yours is an EV.
    Right. It says Electrovoice.

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    Regarding flip-flopping, I think it's a sign of intelligence to change one's mind in light of new facts. Those so inflexible as to never change their minds are not a source of intelligent conversation, nor are they especially worthy of political positions in Government :-)
    “If something strikes me as probable, I say it; and that is how, unlike everyone else, I remain a free agent.” - Cicero

  26. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by strumcat
    So I'm thinking a Fender SuperChamp X2 might be a decent compromise between tube amp simplicity and SS light weight and effects. It has a line out in case 15 (tube) Watts through a 10" speaker isn't enough. 24 lbs! (I'm old.) Price seems good, too ($400 new). I was looking at a Katana KTN-100, but it just sounds so... lifeless and mechanical to my ears. The Pro Jr IV sounds good, but no line out and it's $100 more than the SCX2. Any thoughts?
    I have an X2 HEAD. I . think the speaker in the combo is limiting what this amp can deliver. Alternating between different cabs, it's impossible not to get some excellent sounds out of it. I use it with an Eminence Wizard (loud !), Eminence Lil Buddy (medium loudness and hemp cone smoothness for jazzy applications) and ZT cab (to play quieter at home while getting power tube distortion).