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  1. #251

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    Quote Originally Posted by gggomez View Post
    The whole Gibbo shooting match, close your eyes and what do you hear?

    I thought the first Explorer was the best-sounding of the bunch.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #252

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    Having been playing for over 60 years and having owned hundreds of guitars, I confess that I've never own an ES-335. I don't think I've ever even played one.

    However, I have owned a dozen of these:

    Call for moratorium on 335s-es-355-col-2_01-jpg

    In my defense I almost never used them for jazz gigs, but for stand-up rock/pop gigs a Gibson ES-355 model has been my most-used type of guitar from '62-2002. At that time I decided that they were getting too big and heavy for me and switched to these (not the big one in the middle):

    Call for moratorium on 335s-semis-1-jpg

    I still use them for non-jazz gigs, the Johhny A. more than the CS-356 because I prefer the long scale length.

    I prefer this style of guitar to solidbodies because, to me, they feel better to play. There some resonance and tactile feedback that's lacking in a solid guitar. OTOH, they can be played way louder than an L-5 without acoustic feedback.

    Danny W.

  4. #253

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    If they're too heavy, you can save some weight by removing the Bigsbys.

  5. #254

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    So Danny, how do the smaller bodied guitars compare to the larger ones, in tone, resonance and feel? They are very popular these days.

  6. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny W. View Post
    Call for moratorium on 335s-semis-1-jpg
    Danny the whammy, who'd a thought it!

  7. #256

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    I've had both real and copy 335s but I always had trouble with the very long expanse of guitar top between the tailpiece and the bottom end of the guitar. Like, what purpose does that acre of wood serve anyway?

  8. #257

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
    Lacking exciting airstrike footage and otherwise apropos of nothing, I say...

    this thread needs dancing girls (gratuitous 335 content):

    I never heard of Bryan Ferry.

  9. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler View Post
    Those knobs are all messed up!

  10. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    Those knobs are all messed up!
    Obviously a fake....
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  11. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtfree View Post
    I've had both real and copy 335s but I always had trouble with the very long expanse of guitar top between the tailpiece and the bottom end of the guitar. Like, what purpose does that acre of wood serve anyway?
    I assume it puts the strap button where they wanted it, which in turn puts the fingerboard where they wanted it to be positioned for a standing player.

  12. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Cuz they're SEXY.

    Attachment 62695

    That's mine posing on my equally hawt Ford Focus.
    Next time you buy a compact Ford, buy it in this color. THAT'S hot!

    Call for moratorium on 335s-ford-jpg

  13. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    Next time you buy a compact Ford, buy it in this color. THAT'S hot!

    Call for moratorium on 335s-ford-jpg
    Also a good colour for a tele

  14. #263

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    The debbil wants you to trade your 335 for a Tele.

  15. #264

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    The are many varieties within the jazz family. I'm old school as anyone. Nonetheless, here's a favorite of mine. It doesn't have the wide dimensions of a large archtop, but it works.

    MG

  16. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass View Post
    The are many varieties within the jazz family. I'm old school as anyone. Nonetheless, here's a favorite of mine. It doesn't have the wide dimensions of a large archtop, but it works.

    Heritage's Millenium series is a fantastic semi-hollow/semi-solid instrument. The above video of the amazing Wolfgang Muthspiel demonstrates its jazz tones very well.


  17. #266

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    Larry Carlton started it in the 70s. No one played a 335 before he became popular as a studio player back then. Everyone said, "I'm gonna be a studio player like Carlton, and play with Steely Dan, Michael franks, etc..
    If we string anyone up, I say let's start with Larry Carlton. Everything should take care of itself if we get rid of him.

  18. #267

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    For me, it was this guy. But it was Larry Carlton and his clones , who inspired me to wreck my 1960 ES 345 by installing a brass nut, bridge and higher output pickups.

    Cream - Crossroads (Farewell Concert - Extended Edition) (5 of 11) - YouTube



  19. #268

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgcim View Post
    Larry Carlton started it in the 70s. No one played a 335 before he became popular as a studio player back then. Everyone said, "I'm gonna be a studio player like Carlton, and play with Steely Dan, Michael franks, etc..
    If we string anyone up, I say let's start with Larry Carlton. Everything should take care of itself if we get rid of him.
    Nah, others were there playing 335's before then to string up :-)

    Justin Hayward (moodies) Ritchie Blackmore (Deep Purple) Alvin Lee (TYA) Clapton.
    Regards,

    Gary

  20. #269

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    Alvin Lee !

  21. #270

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    Hank Garland kept playing it so they eventually had to give him a signature guitar just to make him stop

  22. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
    Alvin Lee !
    Elvin Bishop!

  23. #272

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    Quote Originally Posted by average joe View Post
    hank garland kept playing it so they eventually had to give him a signature guitar just to make him stop
    reeeeeeevvvvveeeeeeeerrrbb!!!
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  24. #273

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob taft View Post
    For me, it was this guy. But it was Larry Carlton and his clones , who inspired me to wreck my 1960 ES 345 by installing a brass nut, bridge and higher output pickups.

    Cream - Crossroads (Farewell Concert - Extended Edition) (5 of 11) - YouTube


    did you keep the PAFs ?

  25. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    If they're too heavy, you can save some weight by removing the Bigsbys.
    They're all under 7 lbs, so I'm fine with them as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    Danny the whammy, who'd a thought it!
    There was a very long time that I wouldn't have thought it either. Of the dozen 355 Gibsons, only the last one I bought had a Bigsby. Prior to that, the only guitars I'd had with a Bigsby were two Gretsch White Falcons and a Guild Duane Eddy DE-500. I never liked the tailpieces on these. I'd had a '71 355 with a Vibrola tail[piece that I did like and when I had the '94 Custom Shop guitar with the L-5S trim built by Roger Giffin I told him to put one of those on it. He strongly suggested a Bigsby because Gibson was no longer making the Vibrola, but I insisted on having one. He managed to find an old one that needed to be replated and I told him to clean it up and put it on. I came to regret that later on.

    I almost turned down the blonde 355 because of the Bigsby, but it turned out to be one of my favorites and for about a year I used it for all my non-jazz gigs. I learned two things during that period: I really enjoyed the Bigsby, and it was time to find smaller and lighter guitars for stand-up gigs.

    Call for moratorium on 335s-retro-9-jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack View Post
    So Danny, how do the smaller bodied guitars compare to the larger ones, in tone, resonance and feel? They are very popular these days.
    The two models I have are completely different animals from the 335/345/355 guitars in woods and construction, so they sound different. When I got my first one, the cherry CS-356, I took it to a gig and had some trouble adjusting to both the feel and the sound, but it didn’t take me long to get used to it. When I got my first Johnny A. I immediately thought it was one of the best guitars I’ve ever played, but neither model is a direct replacement for a 335. Gibson has made small guitars that have similar woods and construction to a 335 or 355, the ES-339 and 359, but I've never played either one.

    Danny W.

  26. #275

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    Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

    McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

    In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.
    “Without music, life would be a mistake”--Friedrich Nietzsche

    Current lineup: Gibson ES-135 ('02), Peerless Sunset, Harmony Brilliant Cutaway ('64), Godin 5th Avenue, Alvarez AC60 A/E classical, Kay K37 ('56), Fender Squier VM Jazz bass, several ukes. Amps: Fishman Artist, Fender SCXD, Pignose 7-100.

  27. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

    McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

    In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.
    Well to be exact, didn't Chuck Barry use a 345 or something? I know Grant used a 330. But yes doublecut thinlines...

  28. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

    McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

    In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.
    I think it was those bends he did (like at the end of "Gaucho") that got everyone excited. They went out and bought those big frets that he used.

  29. #278

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    Lucille.

  30. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff View Post
    Uh, Larry Carlton was not the first. There were lots of players using a 335-style guitar back in the day, especially Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison and Grant Green. I think Lee Ritenour started out on a 335 as well. And of course the rock guys.

    McLaughlin also used a 335 for awhile in the 70’s.

    In terms of popularity re’ jazz at least there’s little question Mr. 335 has popularized that guitar more than anyone. Ironic that his most famous solo, Kid Charlemagne, is performed on a Tele.
    Source link:

    The Story Behind The : Larry Carlton's sessions with Steely Dan and Joni Mitchell

    "A few words on Larry Carlton’s celebrated guitar tone are in order. We start with the amp. Remembering that session, he also recalled: 'I can’t remember why but I decided to take my little Tweed Deluxe with my 335 and that became my lead sound with Steely Dan.'”

  31. #280

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    These are broad stroke comments. History often is best understood that way.

    There were archtops for decades that were essentially tuned percussion instruments.

    Pickups were added and solo guitar became a thing. This rapidly led to the dedicated electric guitar, which allowed loud solos.

    Innovation went rampant. There were different types of pickups, bridges, and circuits. The vibrato was another that emulated the Hawaiian lap steel and the pedal steel effects. These made the electric guitar a distinct species.

    The Gibson semi-hollows, especially the 355, commonly had Bigsbys on them in the 1950s and early 1960s. These semis also might have stereo, Varitones, and gold hardware. The era had cars with big fins. It was a time in which "more was more". Everything was put on these instruments to add to the glory of them. The Bigsby plant was next door to Gibson in Kalamazoo, not by coincidence. The 355 had a lot of real estate on its top to fill. A large gold Bigsby took up that space. The Maestro didn't need all of the tailpiece gold to function.

    Call for moratorium on 335s-355-red-jpgCall for moratorium on 335s-355-m-jpg

    The smaller solid bodies were also guilded in the high end models. The more gold, the better.

    Call for moratorium on 335s-les-paul-jpg
    My point is that function wasn't the only factor driving design. Bigsbys were cheap for Gibson to install and, for many, added to the visual appeal. Look at the competition at the time.


    Call for moratorium on 335s-gretsch-guitars-g6136t-jpg

    Now we are more practical and less garish.

    For those of you old enough to have gone through the era when the wah wah and fuzz tone pedals were introduced, you'll recall how grossly overused these were. The first artistic use of the wah wah came years later with Jimi Hendrix. The Bigsby also went through that roll out where it was overdone in the 50s and early 60s. Now it is expected to be used sparingly.

    So the original topic was about the 335 and jazz. Step back and ask the foundational question, what is jazz? Can it include an electric instrument like the Hammond B3 with Leslie speakers? There's some weird, non-traditional jazz sounds. How about quarter tones?

    Push it more toward the present, 40 years ago. Did Jaco and his band play Jazz? I think so.



    This conversation is about lumpers vs. splitters, traditionalists vs. innovators, small vs. big tent. It's all fun.

    The big question is whether this is where jazz goes to die, on some obscure planet and in the hands of humanoids.

    MG

  32. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984 View Post
    I believe he uses a little reverb. Just a touch, but his sound is usually not 100% dry, if my ears are working. No delay, though.

    Just an aside... but I do indeed love this album... Thanks for the post, Jorge.
    Best regards,
    Matt

  33. #282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass View Post
    These are broad stroke comments. History often is best understood that way.

    There were archtops for decades that were essentially tuned percussion instruments.

    Pickups were added and solo guitar became a thing. This rapidly led to the dedicated electric guitar, which allowed loud solos.

    Innovation went rampant. There were different types of pickups, bridges, and circuits. The vibrato was another that emulated the Hawaiian lap steel and the pedal steel effects. These made the electric guitar a distinct species.

    The Gibson semi-hollows, especially the 355, commonly had Bigsbys on them in the 1950s and early 1960s. These semis also might have stereo, Varitones, and gold hardware. The era had cars with big fins. It was a time in which "more was more". Everything was put on these instruments to add to the glory of them. The Bigsby plant was next door to Gibson in Kalamazoo, not by coincidence. The 355 had a lot of real estate on its top to fill. A large gold Bigsby took up that space. The Maestro didn't need all of the tailpiece gold to function.

    Call for moratorium on 335s-355-red-jpgCall for moratorium on 335s-355-m-jpg

    The smaller solid bodies were also guilded in the high end models. The more gold, the better.

    Call for moratorium on 335s-les-paul-jpg
    My point is that function wasn't the only factor driving design. Bigsbys were cheap for Gibson to install and, for many, added to the visual appeal. Look at the competition at the time.


    Call for moratorium on 335s-gretsch-guitars-g6136t-jpg

    Now we are more practical and less garish.

    For those of you old enough to have gone through the era when the wah wah and fuzz tone pedals were introduced, you'll recall how grossly overused these were. The first artistic use of the wah wah came years later with Jimi Hendrix. The Bigsby also went through that roll out where it was overdone in the 50s and early 60s. Now it is expected to be used sparingly.

    So the original topic was about the 335 and jazz. Step back and ask the foundational question, what is jazz? Can it include an electric instrument like the Hammond B3 with Leslie speakers? There's some weird, non-traditional jazz sounds. How about quarter tones?

    Push it more toward the present, 40 years ago. Did Jaco and his band play Jazz? I think so.



    This conversation is about lumpers vs. splitters, traditionalists vs. innovators, small vs. big tent. It's all fun.

    The big question is whether this is where jazz goes to die, on some obscure planet and in the hands of humanoids.

    This wouldn’t be a problem if we’d all adopted the synthaxe back in the ‘80s. Instead here we are playing musty smelling dad boxes with twang bars.

  34. #283

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    This is what the kids are playing now.



    I think it’s rather dweeby, but he works with Ariana Grande, so what the hell do I know haha

    I think dweeby is cool now. Time to get a fan fret macaferri.

  35. #284

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    I hate Les Paul's. They weigh like 9 pounds but look like a ukulele on me. Nothing that small should be that heavy.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  36. #285

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    9? When I was playing Les Pauls they were 11 lb guitars.

    And, yes, too small if you are 6' plus.

  37. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtfree View Post
    I've had both real and copy 335s but I always had trouble with the very long expanse of guitar top between the tailpiece and the bottom end of the guitar. Like, what purpose does that acre of wood serve anyway?
    It helps make it feel like a "real" guitar.

  38. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    9? When I was playing Les Pauls they were 11 lb guitars.

    And, yes, too small if you are 6' plus.
    Nowdays the chambered LP's can be under 9 pounds.
    Regards,

    Gary

  39. #288

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI View Post
    Nowdays the chambered LP's can be under 9 pounds.
    Chambered = less wood same price

  40. #289

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  41. #290

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    I'm sorry if I don't get it right, but what the topic owner means is that a 335 is virtually a solid guitar, right? This for having a central block, ok? What about thinline guitars without a central block, such as Casino? I have never touched one, but it seems to me to be more twangy than the 335. Is a thinline Tele more twangy and trebly than a solid one?

  42. #291

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    This is actually pretty cool...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  43. #292

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    I have a fully hollow thinline, an Eastman T145, 1.75" at the rims, and it plays and responds like a full-depth archtop, but less bass acoustically. It's very comfortable to play, and weighs under 5 pounds. I've had no problem with feedback. I think fully hollow thinlines are a very viable solution. I've never been a fan of semis, but if it takes more wood to float your boat, they're readily available.

  44. #293

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    I would be in the market for a thinline.... well if I had any money which I don’t.

  45. #294

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    OMG, no....! My small minded purist tradional convictions and my OCD make every cell in my body scream in agony at the sight of it.......
    Jazz, Funk, Soul & Boogaloo: My group | Listen to Hip Jazz a Go Go! | Jazz, Soul, Blues: Eva La Voix

  46. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    This is what the kids are playing now.



    I think it’s rather dweeby, but he works with Ariana Grande, so what the hell do I know haha

    I think dweeby is cool now. Time to get a fan fret macaferri.
    I had to google for that one:


    But dude, ‘dweeby’ seems the definition of a jazz guitarist, no?

    Jazz, Funk, Soul & Boogaloo: My group | Listen to Hip Jazz a Go Go! | Jazz, Soul, Blues: Eva La Voix

  47. #296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertito View Post
    Source link:

    The Story Behind The : Larry Carlton's sessions with Steely Dan and Joni Mitchell

    "A few words on Larry Carlton’s celebrated guitar tone are in order. We start with the amp. Remembering that session, he also recalled: 'I can’t remember why but I decided to take my little Tweed Deluxe with my 335 and that became my lead sound with Steely Dan.'”
    You might find this interesting too:

    Rig Rundown: Larry Carlton | Premier Guitar

  48. #297

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    In the 1962 Gibson catalog, as well as some later ones, the description of the ES-355TDSV starts off:

    "This magnificent jazz guitar..."

    Case closed!

    Danny W.

  49. #298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertito View Post
    Source link:

    The Story Behind The : Larry Carlton's sessions with Steely Dan and Joni Mitchell

    "A few words on Larry Carlton’s celebrated guitar tone are in order. We start with the amp. Remembering that session, he also recalled: 'I can’t remember why but I decided to take my little Tweed Deluxe with my 335 and that became my lead sound with Steely Dan.'”
    Oops. I misremembered that. I have seen video of him playing a Tele, as in this one, and somehow associated it with that particular solo.


    As mentioned above, Chuck Berry and Grant Green weren't known for playing a 335, though I said a "335-type guitar."

    I will reiterate Larry Carlton's influence though. When I went out and got another "jazz" guitar in the 90's, I got one because he was one of my favorite players at that time.

    Currently I have 2 thinlines--an ES-135 (balsawood center block) and a Peerless Sunset (fully hollow), both of which are more comfortable for me than the 335 yet still get that smooth jazz tone I've always pursued. Neither feedback to any extent.
    “Without music, life would be a mistake”--Friedrich Nietzsche

    Current lineup: Gibson ES-135 ('02), Peerless Sunset, Harmony Brilliant Cutaway ('64), Godin 5th Avenue, Alvarez AC60 A/E classical, Kay K37 ('56), Fender Squier VM Jazz bass, several ukes. Amps: Fishman Artist, Fender SCXD, Pignose 7-100.

  50. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by arielcee View Post
    Well to be exact, didn't Chuck Barry use a 345 or something? I know Grant used a 330. But yes doublecut thinlines...
    Berry played a 355 I thought. Fancy guitar.

    I had a 347 for awhile. Good guitar.

  51. #300

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    @Christian: Dave Stryker just called and said he's gonna kick your a--!!!
    JK :-)