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  1. #101

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    When I get my Les Paul Recording out at a jazz gig I unusually get bewildered looks from the 'guitar experts' at the gig who think it's some kind of weird home-made creation with a Gibson neck on it.

    On another occasion I had a guitar expert (I suspect a noodler of the pentatonic variety) tell me that my MIJ Fender '62 Custom Telecaster is NOT a real Telecaster.

    My friend with an ES-335 used to get dreamy-eyed glazes from similar characters.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Call for moratorium on 335s-fb_img_1559786621851-jpg
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  4. #103

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    I was at rehearsal tonight, getting ready for a jazz gig Friday. My band has seen me play quite a few guitars. I asked if they had a preference? They said that all of them sounded pretty good, but that the 17" archtop afforded me instant cred with audiences.

  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Cuz they're SEXY.



    That's mine posing on my equally hawt Ford Focus.

    Sorry ladies, I'm taken.
    Jeff I’m seriously questioning my sexuality here

  6. #105

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    Those comparisons have been done. To my ear, the LP and 335 don't sound much different, assuming both have humbuckers.

    For that matter, the 175 may not sound all that different either, by the time the sound reaches the audience.

    OTOH, I think the L5 sounds different, or, at least can. But, it's a longer scale instrument.

    I play a Comins GCS-1 which is a semi that's a little smaller and has a single cut. Why? It looks good. It sounded great when Jack Wilkins played it. When I played it in the store, surprisingly, it still reminded me of Jack's sound, proving, once and for all, that the sound isn't in your hands, it's in the equipment. Which is why, if I had an L5, I'd sound like Wes.

    Sure, most of that was BS, except for the part about why I play the Comins.

    I also play the cheapest Yamaha Pacifica Strat copy. That's a terrific guitar for several reasons. The best one is that people are pleasantly surprised if you can play at all. The exact opposite of showing up with an L5 and sounding average. "What's that noodler doing with an L5?".

  7. #106

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    LOL!!!!

    Thanks for posting that - a jazz cat dreaming of a 335?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Those comparisons have been done. To my ear, the LP and 335 don't sound much different, assuming both have humbuckers.

    For that matter, the 175 may not sound all that different either, by the time the sound reaches the audience.

    OTOH, I think the L5 sounds different, or, at least can. But, it's a longer scale instrument.

    I play a Comins GCS-1 which is a semi that's a little smaller and has a single cut. Why? It looks good. It sounded great when Jack Wilkins played it. When I played it in the store, surprisingly, it still reminded me of Jack's sound, proving, once and for all, that the sound isn't in your hands, it's in the equipment. Which is why, if I had an L5, I'd sound like Wes.

    Sure, most of that was BS, except for the part about why I play the Comins.

    I also play the cheapest Yamaha Pacifica Strat copy. That's a terrific guitar for several reasons. The best one is that people are pleasantly surprised if you can play at all. The exact opposite of showing up with an L5 and sounding average. "What's that noodler doing with an L5?".
    My 175 has a lot less sustain than my tele. I think that's specific to mine, some 175s are thicker and more electric sounding...

    I think an LP would have more sustain than a tele, let alone my 175. 335 too.

    The guitar has more 'snap' to it too. Comes from the hollow body I think. It's cool to leave the treble full open. I don't think i could do that with a 335.

  9. #108

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    Ok so ...

    when end I was an itty bitty boy
    I heard this UK single version of ding-a-ling

    audio on here


    That exact version
    it had video with it on top of the pops ....
    I know it sounds like bs , but the guitar playing
    and the sound of the guitar really chimed with me !

    he was playing a dark coloured maybe black 335 shaped gibson
    i think with a varitone 345 355 ??
    cant find the video of that actual performance on utube now unfortunately

    I just loved that chunky funky sound on the chords
    Later on I did get a Black '63 335

    so if you have a listen , I think it has a distinctive 335 sound
    a bit of chunk from the air in the body when you strike it hard for rhythm
    i don't think a tele or strat would chunk like that

    That's a big reason for me playing the guitar
    a bit sad really , "what were your early influences"
    "oh my ding-a-long by chuck berry"

    not that cred .... But hey , what can you do ?

    addendum
    Later on I started finding the 335 uncomfortable sitting
    i dug in my ribs
    and felt better with a bigger hollow body strangely
    and found I got even more of that chunky thumpy goodness
    from a laminated hollow body ....

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by dlew919 View Post
    Play a Gretsch. That will sort it out.

    I get sick of th jazz tone too (and players who all want to sound like joe pass. Love joe. But he did it already.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Which album?

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    Which album?
    All of them. I meant the style is ubiquitous. Charlie, Wes, pat, Lenny, all of them are great. But I don’t want to hear someone else do them.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  12. #111

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    Grenade!

  13. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    Grenade!
    *shrugs*

    It's a fair comment. There's lots of options available these days, lots of different tones in use....

    I mean, to be honest, any guitar a pick up through any clean amp tends to sound like that, so it's a gear thing for me. In my case I have found that an ES175 through a clean amp (or even DI'd) always sounds good and always has a hefty midrange cut. TBF, I'd probably find the same thing with any Gibson electric.

    The particular 175 I've got has a a good tone for swing rhythm guitar, which is useful as I still play a fair amount of that stuff. You can get it to sound quite banjo-y with the right pick attack.

    It's not like I'm trying to emulate x tone... I just play a bit like that anyway.

  14. #113

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    My response was due to the fact that we cherish the sounds of Wes, etc., on this forum.

  15. #114

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    I wouldn’t want to be seen with a 335!

    That’s why I got the 333..... muuuuch better!


    :: Jazz, Funk, Soul & Boogaloo: My group ::
    ::::::: Listen to Hip Jazz a Go Go! :::::::
    :: Jazz, Soul, Blues: Eva & The Tracies :::

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    My response was due to the fact that we cherish the sounds of Wes, etc., on this forum.
    Sure. But what he said is he doesn't want to imitate them, or hear them imitated. I think that's totally fair.

    The players I listen to have an original sound and voice on their instrument anyway. Usually their sound is part of this in one way or another.

    OTOH, while it is arguable that many of the classic players sounded of a piece tonally - but I think Charlie Christian, Wes, Grant Green and Jim Hall had very distinctive tones and that's why they stand apart for me... Jimmy Raney too...

    Of course, many people say stuff like 'I don't want to sound like the 50s guys' and instead end up copying modern guys.

    I am of course intimately acquainted with these problems - it's very hard to get in touch with and value your own voice and gear is part of that.

    But that's another thread!

  17. #116

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    Wes was trying to copy Charlie Christian, and along the way became Wes.

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay View Post
    I wouldn’t want to be seen with a 335!

    That’s why I got the 333..... muuuuch better!
    Yet ANOTHER Gibson that's relatively undiscovered.
    Regards,

    Gary

  19. #118

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    It seems like nobody is willing to come out and declare the love that dare not speak its name, so I'll do it. I play a semi-hollow (not literally a 335, but something very similar in size, shape, configuration, and sound). It's my main electric guitar. I have two others because, why not? I use them. Sometimes for the sake of variety, sometimes because I think it fits the context better, sometime for no particular reason other than that I feel like playing one or the other that day. But I could very happily function with just my semi-hollow, not because it's a compromise, or because I need an f-hole beard to play jazz. I play it because I really like it in itself because of how it sounds and plays. I also really like the form factor -- I find the shape and size very comfortable to play, either seated or standing. When I got it, I felt like this was the guitar I had always wanted, it was the sound I had always had in my head but had never quite gotten out of other instruments.

    John (not that there's anything wrong with that) A.
    Last edited by John A.; 06-07-2019 at 11:04 AM.

  20. #119

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    I play whatever guitar the voices in my head tell me to.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  21. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    Wes was trying to copy Charlie Christian, and along the way became Wes.
    I don't think people become who they are 'along the way' - I think it takes an openness to other things. The thumb thing, for instance.

    If all you can hear is how you don't sound like your hero(s) you will never come into your own. At some point you have to stop being a music fan and start being a musician, and look at what you do as having some validity.

    This is very hard, and there are significant social factors acting against you in some ways.

    It would have been easy for Wes to reject the thumb thing as silly, just a compromise necessary to squeeze a bit more practice in. But he didn't.

  22. #121

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    I'm with Lawson, and sometimes my inner voices say "play the semi-acoustic."

    The very first Gibson guitar I ever saw or played was our next-door neighbor's ES-335, when I was about seven. It was a late-50s model, and I thought THAT was the embodiment of an electric guitar.

  23. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    It seems like nobody is willing to come out and declare the love that dare not speak its name, so I'll do it. I play a semi-hollow (not literally a 335, but something very similar in size, shape, configuration, and sound). It's my main electric guitar. I have two others because, why not? I used them. Sometimes for the sake of variety, sometimes because I think it fits the context better, sometime for no particular reason other than that I feel like playing one or the other that day. But I could very happily function with just my semi-hollow, not because it's a compromise, or because I need an f-hole beard to play jazz. I play it because I really like it in itself because of how it sounds and plays. I also really like the form factor -- I find the shape and size very comfortable to play, either seated or standing. When I got it, I felt like this was the guitar I had always wanted, it was the sound I had always had in my head but had never quite gotten out of other instruments.

    John (not that there's anything wrong with that) A.

    Well - a couple of posts ago I was about to post something along these lines as well, but anyway here's my coming out:

    The ES 335 model is by far my favourite style of guitar - there: I said it!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  24. #123

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    Christian,

    Sure. OTOH, my understanding is that Wes started out with a pick, but used his thumb at night out of consideration to his neighbors--it kept the volume of the guitar down at home when he was practicing. Of course, it gave rise to _his_ voice that the rest of the world has tried to copy.

  25. #124

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    Now that a couple of 335 lovers have fessed up, I can also come out. In my case, my desire for a 335 was sparked by Bill Nelson and this album in 1976.



    I was 19, so probably more inspired by the cover than the contents. Some 40 years on, I have never owned a 335, but I am on my 5th thin-line semi. I have never felt inspired to actually part with heard-earned cash for a Gibson, so my current squeeze is the Yamaha SA2200, with which I thought I was happy until Christian started sowing the seeds of doubt in my mind The symptoms of GDS (guitar divestment syndrome) are creeping up on me. I keep telling myself that the Yammie ears are more Wile E Coyote than Mickey Mouse, but I still keep straining my own ears for hints of nasality in the tone. My Tele and Godin archtop are seeing much more of me than usual. Hell I've even found myself looking at PRS ads for a potential solid body replacement ...and, that's just sick.

    Christian - what have you done to me ?
    Have no secrets, hear no lies.

  26. #125

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    Just because:


    Call for moratorium on 335s-gibson-memphis-2016-1958-es-335-vos-58-natural-368128-jpg

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  27. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    Christian,

    Sure. OTOH, my understanding is that Wes started out with a pick, but used his thumb at night out of consideration to his neighbors--it kept the volume of the guitar down at home when he was practicing. Of course, it gave rise to _his_ voice that the rest of the world has tried to copy.
    That’s what I mean... to go not - oh this is annoying I have to practice without a pick... but instead embracing something that would not lead to the Charlie christian tone.

    It’s interesting that many of the older musicians would at some point strongly discourage younger players from continuing with imitating a model when they felt that enough progress had been made...

  28. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by newsense View Post
    Now that a couple of 335 lovers have fessed up, I can also come out. In my case, my desire for a 335 was sparked by Bill Nelson and this album in 1976.



    I was 19, so probably more inspired by the cover than the contents. Some 40 years on, I have never owned a 335, but I am on my 5th thin-line semi. I have never felt inspired to actually part with heard-earned cash for a Gibson, so my current squeeze is the Yamaha SA2200, with which I thought I was happy until Christian started sowing the seeds of doubt in my mind The symptoms of GDS (guitar divestment syndrome) are creeping up on me. I keep telling myself that the Yammie ears are more Wile E Coyote than Mickey Mouse, but I still keep straining my own ears for hints of nasality in the tone. My Tele and Godin archtop are seeing much more of me than usual. Hell I've even found myself looking at PRS ads for a potential solid body replacement ...and, that's just sick.

    Christian - what have you done to me ?
    Bwahahahahaahahahaahahahaaaaaargh

  29. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    (this is a joke, BTW, I know the gear forums get angry)
    I was more than a little disappointed to see this. I was really looking forward to a "joe pass isn't very good" style thread.


    Maybe I'll start one about tele's?

  30. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo View Post
    I was more than a little disappointed to see this. I was really looking forward to a "joe pass isn't very good" style thread.


    Maybe I'll start one about tele's?
    Ha ha. If a new member had posted this thread, all hell would have broken loose. That would've been the last anyone has seen the OP for the next 7 years. Clearly those who cherish ES 335's and it's wonderful legacy are intimidated by Christian.

    PS. OK I stirred the pot a bit, let's see if we get some healthy activity going.

  31. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Ha ha. If a new member posted this thread, all hell would have broken loose. That would've been last anyone seen the OP for the next 7 years. Clearly those who cherish ES 335's and it's wonderful legacy are intimated by Christian.

    PS. OK I stirred the pot a bit, let's see if we get some healthy activity going.
    25 bonus points for word salad.

    John

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    25 bonus points for word salad.

    John
    See. It took like 4 seconds.

  33. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    See. It took like 4 seconds.
    You don't intimate me. Knot won littoral bet.

    John

  34. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    You don't intimate me. Knot won littoral bet.

    John
    I'm glad you got that out of your chest. What prompted you?

  35. #134

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    Lacking exciting airstrike footage and otherwise apropos of nothing, I say...

    this thread needs dancing girls (gratuitous 335 content):


  36. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
    Lacking exciting airstrike footage and otherwise apropos of nothing, I say...

    this thread needs dancing girls (gratuitous 335 content):
    What is there to say. I mean, this clip has it all. I think the guy playing the 335 was also wearing reading glasses which evidently he removed for his solo. Aging is not for sissies.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  37. #136

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    I'll hand over my 335 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    I'm glad you got that out of your chest. What prompted you?
    Nothing, just entertained by malapropisms.

    John

  39. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    ...sometimes my inner voices say "play the semi-acoustic."
    Sometimes my inner voices say "Kill, kill for the love of Kali." Other times they say, "It's time for a sammich." I usually go for the sandwich option.

    Then I play some guitar. Sometimes even one of these:
    Last edited by Hammertone; 06-06-2019 at 06:37 PM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  40. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO View Post
    Just because:


    Call for moratorium on 335s-gibson-memphis-2016-1958-es-335-vos-58-natural-368128-jpg

    Nice, is that yours? What year? It looks like an old one.

    John

  41. #140

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  42. #141

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    I have an oldie, a 66 ES-335. Repaired headstock, well worn and much loved. To play it is is to know why. Probably the best humbuckers ever, at least in my experience. But it's the last guitar I would pickup to practice jazz. Maybe the narrow neck, I'm not sure. Whereas a MIK epi casino gets a lot of practice time. Must be the hollow body vs. semi aspect.

    MD

  43. #142

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  44. #143

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    Meet the lads - both 1959 re-issues from the Memphis factory. I don't play anything but jazz and I am not a professional. But I play every day and I feel I get great tone from both. In the end I think that's what matters.


    Call for moratorium on 335s-img_7478-jpg

  45. #144

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    Yes but it’s a concession because although legitimacy goes down being a semi, it still says Gibson on the headstock.

    (Sorry, I couldn’t resist)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  46. #145
    Not a 335 but what was Kurt thinking? Such a horrid sound and I'm not sure if it's even jazz....although he does wear a hat....so....

    . (you know I look for any excuse to post this video again....and again....)


  47. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    Christian,

    Sure. OTOH, my understanding is that Wes started out with a pick, but used his thumb at night out of consideration to his neighbors--it kept the volume of the guitar down at home when he was practicing. Of course, it gave rise to _his_ voice that the rest of the world has tried to copy.
    Never knew this. I started with a pick but moved to thumb and fingers because I got into slide playing (a la Robert Johnson) and then into classical playing. Oddly, I never liked the sound of my nails, so I keep them trimmed short and embrace the warmth of my fingertips, even in my poor flamenco styling. I didn’t get back into using a pick until last year, but only for certain songs where I wanted the attack to be noticeable sharper than the back of my nails.

    On the 335 thing, I almost got an Epiphone Casino Coupe but I was worried about acoustic tone and neck sag. I had a chance to try the 339 and if it sagged with a wood block, I felt it would be worse with a true hollow body. Ended up with the acoustic 5th Avenue and putting a custom pickup on it to get the vintage tone I sought and couldn’t be happier. Plus they feel better made to me than the Epiphones at the price point
    I can afford.

    But I don’t get the vitriol so many jazz players have for things outside their own preferences. Play what feels good and what sounds good to you. I have enough to worry about getting myself to sound good to care if someone likes how it looks or not, but then I’m not a professional musician. If it feels good but needs a tone improvement, modify the electronics. If it sounds good but needs some work to be more playable, get the work done. Unless you’re talking solely about pure acoustic tone, you can get just a good a sound from a middle price point instrument with some work done as a much higher end guitar. I just got a relatively new Hamer Monaco Korina with dual P90s because someone needed cash and let it go for $400 (half MSRP/ 3/4 of MAP). It feels god except I prefer my frets lower. Tone is good but I will eventually upgrade the pickups to customs as my budget allows. It could use a hardware refresh and a belly contour but I don’t care what it looks like. The wood has a tone I love and its lighter than mahogany. Will it take work, sure, but it will be unique amongst those I play with and play for, and it will fit me. Not sure where I was going with this ramble, but the pain meds and insomnia had my mind going but I think I’m going to ramble on my fretboard instead of on the forum.

    “Now’s the time, the time is now...”
    Redeemed, Husband, Father, Veteran. Thankful for all four!

    I play a customized Godin 5th Avenue, Córdoba GK Studio, and a Hamer Korina. I also play a Kala uBass on occasion

  48. #147

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  49. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    335 = bad
    Don't you think it's enough for now you heretic?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  50. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO View Post
    Don't you think it's enough for now you heretic?
    335 owners = literally worse than Satan.

  51. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    335 owners = literally worse than Satan.
    Ok, if all jazzguitar-members donate $5 it should be enough to buy a 335 for Christian..... ‘cause that’s why he started this, I’m pretty sure!

    :-D

    :: Jazz, Funk, Soul & Boogaloo: My group ::
    ::::::: Listen to Hip Jazz a Go Go! :::::::
    :: Jazz, Soul, Blues: Eva & The Tracies :::