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  1. #51

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    Expensive??? Anything not made in the Far East is expensive by definition. Yet, we are even cheaper in the sense that, after two and a half years, not a cent has been taken out of the business yet. The products are all hand made, and think of the utility: up to 70% lighter than anything else. No wonder most TOOB users are pro musicians. That should say a lot about sound quality. Do inquire about our direct pricing. Your perception may change.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Markku, I'm just reflecting what I saw as prices on the website. It's a very competitive marketplace, but I agree that quality is worth paying for - that's why I use ( expensive) mambo amps, handmade in the UK. Yes, the utility is obvious. I said the products were expensive, that's a fact; I didn't say they weren't worth it. That's for the individual to judge.

    Some details about pro players already using the product would be very interesting.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franz 1997
    I gave in and ordered a BAM; it's such a good price it's hard to resist. Wasn't expecting too much, but so far I agree, it sounds very good with not too much tweaking needed. I've compared it to GSS 100w head ( which I really like) and this sounds about the same, quite 'warm' ( that word again..). One has to wonder how thay can be so cheap and work so well. But, they seem to get warm quite quickly; there might even be a little fan lurking in that tiny casing.

    About cab portability - I'm trying it through a GSS 10" cabinet, very compact and light @ 15lb and 12' x 12' x 11". Even I can carry that on a short trip. And it has croc skin covering..just like old Selmer amps. Speaker is a 100 db Ragin' cajun, a seriously loud guitar speaker, but very good with some treble cut, similar to a beta 10.

    For anyone interested, I was sent a Barefaced guitar cab to try, fitted with their 200w bass speaker. This is a very interesting cabinet; it does what it says on the tin and really fills the room, with massive bass and very loud. I think in this config. it works really well for almost any style except jazz - the bass is so massive it overpowers the mids, and so the cab lacks punch and presence. They are sending some other speakers to try in it. Maybe the original guitar speakers will work better, we'll see. But it certainly fills a room, if that's what you want, Very light, too

    Anyway, some progress towards that eventual goal of fab sound out of a 10lb set up...
    Thanks Franz , I apreciate the infos .....velly interlestin ...
    shame about the Barefaced cab , yes probably the wrong driver
    I'd love to know how that goes ,

    I'm gonna try the BAM200 into the new ZT extention cab
    I believe (but haven't confirmed ...)
    that the speaker is an eminance alpha 6a or possibly an alphalite 6a
    anyone know ?
    As used in the Bud and Blue
    so that should work ok , and be under 9lbs.....
    (and cheap)

    ps yes my Bam gets warm too , seems ok though ....
    yes there is a fan on mine , I can't hear it though

  5. #54

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    Hi,
    Anybode use Tc Electronic BAM 200 with hollow body guitar?
    Regulary it is a bass amp.
    Best
    Kris

  6. #55

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    Yes I'm using a Bam200 with an archtop ....

    with a baby Toob with an Eminance Alphalite 6 in it
    TOOB Metro GP 6.5

    I'm reducing the mids to about 9 o clock
    bass up to about 3 o clock
    treble on about 1 o clock
    working great for me ...

    i'm gonna try a preamp in front
    for a bit of hair ...

  7. #56

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    Yep, I use one, and also a TC BQ250 which has been modded for reverb, with 8" and 10" cabs. Great amps, great value.

  8. #57

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    The small bass amps, such as BAM, Elf and MB200, are actually great allround power amps, with a broad and flat frequency response plus adequate EQ controls. I have tried all of them with keyboards, violin and harmonica. On-board reverb would make them perfect for jazz guitar. Many players today use multiple effects, so a separate reverb stomp box is not a major inconvenience.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug
    On-board reverb would make them perfect for jazz guitar.
    Exactly. So why aren't they tapping into that market?

  10. #59

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    1. It costs more to include reverb.
    2. Almost everyone already owns a reverb pedal.

    I don't use the onboard reverb on the amps I own that have it. I don't miss it at all on the ones that don't, and I prefer to pay less instead of getting something I won't use. Bass players tend to not use reverb, AFAICT, so if you want to sell to both bassists and guitarists, no reverb is probably the more economical way to go. Jazz guitar is a very small niche market.

  11. #60

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    To each his own. I prefer not to have to plug in pedals on simple gigs, yet I like a bit of reverb, especially in certain rooms. Jeff Genzler put out a product in his old company that was pretty awesome. 175/300 Class D tiny and lightweight, two channels, with dig verb. I have one. He was so successful that Fender bought him out.
    TC Electronic BAM200 Head for Jazz Guitar-genz-benz-jpg
    Last edited by Woody Sound; 01-23-2020 at 11:33 AM.

  12. #61

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    As mentioned above, it wouldn't be worth a company like TC offering a reverb model to the small niche of jazz guitarists - it's a fair bet that their business model is to offer fully-featured bass amps to all bass players, and - judging by the extraorinarily low prices - to flood that market if they can. Also as mentioned above, the eq centres for bass amps coincide well with the sort of darker yet solid sounds that many jazz players are looking for, which is a happy accident for us. Some won't remember this, but in their early 60s catalogue, Gibson offered an amp geared to both bass players and jazz guitarists, with the ( large, tube) amp on a heavy tripod and a big speaker cab. Must have weighed a mere 80lb..

    I was concerned about the assembly quality of the TC amps, bearing in mind the almost-joke prices, but my expert friend says that the quality is high and the circuits are very innovative. The one snag is the tested continuous rms power of the BAM200 about 80% of the advertised figure - but then that's true of many amps, both SS and tube. And hardly surprising, given how tiny it is. The bigger BQ amp puts out what it says on its tin.

    Man, I do write some geeky posts..

  13. #62

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    I really don't think it would cost, in bulk/design, to add a decent reverb chip. Much less than a significant price point jump. OCICBW.

  14. #63

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    I have told this before. Wrote to Fender around 2016, suggesting they derive a new Jazz UL from Rumble 200 bass amp by removing some bass voicing stuff and adding a reverb. They responded "right on" but nothing happened. Made the same suggestion twice to Gallien-Krueger re. MB200 - no reply. Adding and removing digital chips should be an easy and cheap operation, nothing compared to a new niche product's marketing expenditure. Case in point: DV Mark Micro 50 variants. The Jazz version has one channel vs. the other versions' clean and crunch. Yet, it weighs the same and costs more than the others. BTW, at NAMM DV Mark showed a Micro 60, so new their website or show info has no mention of it yet.

  15. #64

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    They have a few bass heads that have tone print capability. I haven't tried one, but wouldn't that solve the reverb issue? You probably would have a choice of reverb tone prints, too.

  16. #65

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    I/ve chequed BAM 200 today in music shop in Warsaw with different guitars.
    Pat Metheny model Ibanez,Telecaster/made is USA/ and new Yamaha trancacoustic nylon guitar/it has reverb,chorus and volume in preamp/..
    It was set up with 12" cabinet...
    The sound was exelent with Yamaha nylon strings guitar and Ibanez hollow-body.
    Telecaster sound quite good if you work more about equalisation.
    The prise of this amp is really nice...:-)
    Best
    Kris

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave24309
    They have a few bass heads that have tone print capability. I haven't tried one, but wouldn't that solve the reverb issue? You probably would have a choice of reverb tone prints, too.
    I thought of that; I searched their available toneprints library for a reverb, but no luck. Also, considerably more expensive ( but still, pretty cheap compared to other heads)

  18. #67

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    OK! I got one of these today.

    Initial impressions: this is just great. I'm using my Loar with the Krivo pickup played a socially distanced jam with a friend today (on bass) and - just the clearest, warm yet defined jazz tone. None of that annoying glossy compression I get out of my AER (that sounds great for piezo.)

    This amp sounds also very good with my K&K definity equipped guitars, although I'll give them a proper go with a preamp soon.

    Very impressed. Not the loudest, but that might be my speaker and also low level passive pickups. I didn't detect any distortion, so the headroom isn't bad.

  19. #68

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    I assume the 200W rating is at 4 ohms and it's around 100W at 8 ohms.

    I've had some SS amps that were quieter than tube amps with the same wattage, so I've come to think you can't have too many watts in a SS amp -- they have a volume knob for turning it down.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    OK! I got one of these today.

    Initial impressions: this is just great. I'm using my Loar with the Krivo pickup played a socially distanced jam with a friend today (on bass) and - just the clearest, warm yet defined jazz tone. None of that annoying glossy compression I get out of my AER (that sounds great for piezo.)

    This amp sounds also very good with my K&K definity equipped guitars, although I'll give them a proper go with a preamp soon.

    Very impressed. Not the loudest, but that might be my speaker and also low level passive pickups. I didn't detect any distortion, so the headroom isn't bad.
    I had been using one for a few months, until it all stopped. I even got an amp-builder mate to squeeze a basic reverb into my amp ( obviously not spring reverb ) . It's amazing how good they are for the money , and one's dream of being able to gig ( when and if...) with your amp in your pocket is finally realised..

  21. #70

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    I'm glad to see this thread come alive. With every experience logged in, the BAM200 just reaffirms my conviction: it's a helluva small general/power amp for any conceivable application. Two weeks ago, my band's pianist was sold on it, together with a TOOB METRO 6.5FR speaker cab. Today, the same combination, plus an external reverb box, won the heart of an acoustic guitar specialist. He actually went through six guitar-speaker combinations in front of two video cameras and a Zoom recorder, so you can expect a demo video shortly.

  22. #71

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    The thing that really impresses me about it is how full and warm it sounds without reverb.

  23. #72

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    For some of my solid guitars I'm now alterating between the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb and the BAM200 through a Toob 6,5"BG. with a T-Rex Duck Tail pedal in front, set for a minimum delay it's a great little amp - very warm and full sounding, and a steal at the price.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    The thing that really impresses me about it is how full and warm it sounds without reverb.
    My impressions every time I play through a bass amp..! The Bam is high on my gear lust list also. Especially since I recently bought a tiny handmade ported cabinet with an Eminence beta speaker inside. Only reason I haven't bought the Bam yet is that the cabinet is in a different city at the moment!
    Last edited by Alter; 09-28-2020 at 05:18 AM.

  25. #74

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    Not wishing to throw a spanner in the works, as it appears the BAM 200 is broadly fitting
    the bill, Having listened to a number of demos from Bass players on You Tube it did not
    sound impressive . Perhaps with guitar it is improved. Having recently acquired a Henriksen
    Blu with a 6" speaker , I am greatly impressed by it . I tested against my Mambo 12" , Evans
    AH200, Fender Vibrolux and a Polytone 15". The Blu more than held its own , it surprised
    me with a clearer tone than the Mambo. A comparison is unfair in the price range however.
    but the light weight, Blue Tooth facility and extraordinary volume and quality of the Blu
    makes it a good buy IMO. I was fortunate in having a similar opinion from three other Forum
    friends , two of whom are Professional Guitarists. Their endorsement was good enough for me.
    Franz 1997 has ordered a BAM200, and he is very knowledgeable I look forward to his comments.

  26. #75

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    Alan, I think we're comparing apples and oranges here a bit...the BAM is a bass amp head, no idea how it sounds for bass, but it's a good jazz amp head because it emphasises the guitar fundamental frequencies around 400/ 500Hz ( not too far from guitar top B & E strings) and thus does give 'instant warmth', at the cost of the extended treble range which most guitar amps give you. It's tiny and cheap and many people like it. The early 60s Gibson "bass and jazz" amp head had exactly the same idea. BAM puts about around 80w into 8 ohms, which is fine for many jazz gigs. It's not particularly versatile and has no bells and whistles, but that's fine.

    Glad to hear you like the Blu; if you find that it beats all those "industry standard" amps then Hendriksen must be doing something right!! Yes, you'd get a more versatile sound from the Blu I guess, they have that 5 band eq which is 2 more eq bands than most amps. But I don't think you can compare the BAM and Blu meaningfully. Let alone the price

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franz 1997
    Alan, I think we're comparing apples and oranges here a bit...the BAM is a bass amp head, no idea how it sounds for bass, but it's a good jazz amp head because it emphasises the guitar fundamental frequencies around 400/ 500Hz ( not too far from guitar top B & E strings) and thus does give 'instant warmth', at the cost of the extended treble range which most guitar amps give you. It's tiny and cheap and many people like it.
    interesting , I'd assumed the Bam200 was flat fz response (with the controls at noon)
    learning every day !
    i'm gonna use it today with an Ariston 4080 8ohm 5" speaker
    for a rehearsal with a Sax and girl singer ....
    TC Electronic BAM200 Head for Jazz Guitar-image-jpg

    Works best for me with tone controls approx
    as above ....
    The green tape is just so I don't plug into the headphone op by mistake
    (I've done that a couple of times and thought the amp was busted !)
    Attached Images Attached Images TC Electronic BAM200 Head for Jazz Guitar-image-jpg 

  28. #77

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    I agree with Franz. Fortunately, it's apples to oranges, with no risk of a lemon. Soon, I'll be able to release a demo video, where the BAM200 functions as a power amp. The test mission was to see how the new TOOB Metro 6.5" cabs comply with acoustic guitars, both nylon (Yamaha NTX 700) and steel (Martin GPCPA4). All settings were at noon, and a tad of external reverb was used. The amp did a perfect job, even with the full-range cab extending to 15 kHz. So much so that guitarist Mikko Karhula walked away from the session with the FR cab and rushed to order a BAM. He already has an AER acoustic combo, so evidently he liked what he heard. Interestingly, my swing band's pianist/keyboardist fell for the same combination a week earlier. As well, a rock guitarist using a modeling amp chose the 6.5FR as his stage monitor. A Mooer Baby Bomb gives all the power he needs.

    Moral of the story: Henriksens are fantastic products (I've had a 1st gen. Convertible) but pricey for many working musicians and increasingly difficult to obtain in Europe, as they now have to be ordered from the factory. The BAM is an inexpensive, no-frills amp, which serves many other purposes equally well or better than just bass amplification. The same goes for the Trace Elliot Elf, G&K MB200 and probably many other Class D amps with a broad and flat response curve. If only they featured an on-board reverb...

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    interesting , I'd assumed the Bam200 was flat fz response (with the controls at noon)
    What I should have said was that one of the reasons it sounds so warm is that the control labelled 'mid' affects the fundamental upper string tone in a very dramatic way; you can fatten up the top E string of almost all guitars with a slight variation of the mid control. It's really useful and has roughly the same effect as the Evans amp 'depth' control. Obviously this is accidental, as the amp is not intended for guitar - but so what, it works. Another reason is some guitar amps roll off the bass response to avoid sounding 'woofy' - this doesn't ( obviously). Rolling off bass has some effect on the top strings, making them sound a bit thinner/ clearer and more 'fendery'. The BAM doesn't do that. The response graph of the bam is a bit all over the place, not exactly flat response @ 5, 5, 5.......I find it works best with bass @ 4, mid @ 5-6, and treble at around 3, but that's with a bigger cab.

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_lu
    Would you be so kind to share the specs (weight!) and the maker of the cabinet?
    Very curious...
    It's a handmade cabinet, built as close as possible to the early henriksen stand alone cabinet. It looks identical except no tweeter, and sounds great.

    @pingu , your settings seem pretty loud, almost full on volume! Do you use the guitar volume a lot to quiet things down, or is this the volume one should expect from bam? I would think this to be too loud for a voice violin guitar trio..

  31. #80

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    Hi Franz , have you used the Bam with the Barefaced 110 cab ?
    how did that go ?

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    @pingu , your settings seem pretty loud, almost full on volume! Do you use the guitar volume a lot to quiet things down, or is this the volume one should expect from bam? I would think this to be too loud for a voice violin guitar trio..
    no ! I think I moved the Master Volume to max by accident for the photo
    I'm usually on about 2 o clock on the Master ....

    yes i I do run the guitar volume on about half , it gives a good sound
    and also I'm ready if the drummer gets loud .... !

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Hi Franz , have you used the Bam with the Barefaced 110 cab ?
    how did that go ?
    Hi Jem. For a couple of months before gigging stopped, I was using the BAM + the Barefaced with Celestion at a sax/ gtr duo gig, sunday afternoon music at the Olympic. A very easy 14 lb hand-carry. Worked very well, gain @ 25%, master @ 100% for about 15w, tonally as good as any SS amp I have used, and plug and play. Haven't done any loud gigs for some time, not sure the BAM would hold up with loud drums but never tried. It might; the Barefaced is very loud and fills the room. But like many I expect , I'm evaluating whether I really need any loud gig gear any more.

    If I hadn't acquired this ridiculously light barefaced cab, i might be thinking along the same lines as you though with that Toob setup.

  34. #83

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    Yes the mini Toob is working great with the Bam
    but I'm always interested in various Cabs and Driver options too

    Did you go to the stock Celestion G10 vintage or Gold in the Bareface ?
    and are you now settled on a driver for that Cab ....

    They won't sell the Cab empty for some reason ....
    which is a drag ....

  35. #84

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    [Haven't done any loud gigs for some time, not sure the BAM would hold up with loud drums but never tried.]

    My younger son is a semi-pro rock drummer and has a well-equipped studio. He and his shredder guitarist friends have tested the 6.5" and 12" Toob FR versions through a Kemper using the BAM as the power amp. The 12", 150W Jensen D speaker has a sensitivity around 100 dB. It cut through the drums with ease. The smaller cabs were powered by a Quilter Interblock 45 and another smaller amp I can't recall, in stereo in a supportive "wet" role. As stated in my previous post, a modelling-amp rock guitarist considers the 6.5FR and a Mooer Baby Bomb a perfectly adequate combination as a personal stage monitor.

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Yes the mini Toob is working great with the Bam
    but I'm always interested in various Cabs and Driver options too

    Did you go to the stock Celestion G10 vintage or Gold in the Bareface ?
    and are you now settled on a driver for that Cab ....

    They won't sell the Cab empty for some reason ....
    which is a drag ....
    No I was trying out various PA Celestions for them, for a " jazz" version of the cab; from the ones they sent me I preferred the 150W Celestion TN something. It works fine 'cos although the Celestion is only a 97 dB speaker, that particular cab design adds a few dB, or so they say. I can believe it too. But TBH I am pretty sure that the speaker isn't critical with the BF cab., the only thing to watch is that becuase the cab thows out so much bass by design, a bass- heavy gtr speaker eg the hemp-cone Eminence speakers, would give too much bass. with this cab. I imagine a Gold or Creamback would be really good in the BF cab., only snag is that these are 40/ 45 w speakers and so one would have to watch the level with a BAM.

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug
    [Haven't done any loud gigs for some time, not sure the BAM would hold up with loud drums but never tried.]

    My younger son is a semi-pro rock drummer and has a well-equipped studio. He and his shredder guitarist friends have tested the 6.5" and 12" Toob FR versions through a Kemper using the BAM as the power amp. The 12", 150W Jensen D speaker has a sensitivity around 100 dB. It cut through the drums with ease. The smaller cabs were powered by a Quilter Interblock 45 and another smaller amp I can't recall, in stereo in a supportive "wet" role. As stated in my previous post, a modelling-amp rock guitarist considers the 6.5FR and a Mooer Baby Bomb a perfectly adequate combination as a personal stage monitor.
    Thanks, good to know. What is the model number - just 'D'? I'll look it up

  38. #87

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    It's N12D. In the Tornado family. Celestion has something similar. They have promised me a sample twice, to no avail. Three 10" bass Celestions ordered in November and promised in February should be here next week...

  39. #88

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    I used the BAM on my first post-lockdown gig.... Early Ellington and Cab Calloway arranged for 5 piece band so pretty much using it for low level sound reinforcement for my Loar LH600 with the Krivo Djangobucker rather than a sound in its own right if that makes any sense - hitting the strings quite hard etc. At this it was certainly very good.

    Be interested to see how it bears up with a sensitive jazz drummer for a trio. My hunch would be it might not have enough in the tank with my current probably not very good 10" speaker for this to be comfortable, but we'll see.

  40. #89

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    About BAM holding up -just remembered that I have used it at a "jazz night" gig a couple of times at the same place, with loud-ish trio and maybe 60 people taking very loudly; it got a bit warm but held up very well @ maybe half gain on the dial. Obviously the speaker and cab make a big difference. What I can confirm is that my archtops start to feed back well before the amp runs out of steam. I keep forgetting that 40/ 50w or whatever is quite a lot, even for SS watts..about as loud as a Princeton approaching max.

    Hmm, missing those gigs.

  41. #90

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    The BAM runs warmer than Elf (also warm) or MB 200 (almost cool) for sure. Somebody said it's due to mosfet transistors, which behave in a tube-like manner. I understand nothing about electronics. Some very small Class D power amps used e.g. in active speakers produce next to no heat, and need no fan or cooling fins.

  42. #91

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    Regarding the amp getting warm, my experience is that it quickly gets a little warm when I switch it on, even when not doing any work. It then seems to stay at the same level of warmth no matter how loud I play. I've used it both for guitar (in a very loud big band) and for bass (in another loud band). I have often done a quick check on the amp, worrying that it must be getting hot, but have always been pleasantly surprised to find it just warm. I'm only driving an 8 ohm 100W speaker though, so not demanding it's full power. I think it's because of the way the class-D amp works, which is that the power transistors work like very fast switches, and are either fully switched on or fully switched off. They would only get hot when partially resisting the current, and that does not happen. With 90% of the power getting to the speaker, there is little heat generated. The power supply also works in a similar energy-efficient way.
    Sorry about the technical(ish) description but if you are not familiar with class-D amps I hope that it explains how they are radically different to the more usual 'transistor' amps. When you look into how they work, it's a wonder that any recognisable sound comes out of them!

  43. #92

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    Reading through this, I wonder if it would be compatible with my Fender JMUL 2-ohm cab?

  44. #93

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    You can try, of course, but few amps (outside car HiFi) tolerate 2 ohm loads. OTOH, the amp's peak power may surge, exceeding 200W, so it's a question of which one blows up first, the amp or the speaker. I'm not into electronics, but isn't it possible to add a 2-6 ohm resistor to the cab, to make it safe for any amp?
    Last edited by Gitterbug; 09-28-2020 at 09:57 AM.

  45. #94

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    Ignore my earlier post. The BAM flipping rocks.

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Ignore my earlier post. The BAM flipping rocks.
    Christian, I'm not sure what your expression means. But if the BAM has enough oomph for a 6.5", 92dB speaker in a big band setting, it sure beats the dust off a 10"-12", 99dB speaker.