The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    Also the tailpiece on that 1991 looks off center.
    I agree ! I thought that looked odd.

    I would also check that pickguard at the top mounting screw - -has that p/g been bent ? ( was it dropped or ? )
    And is the B string tuner bent too ?
    These could be the lighting doing funny things, but either way -
    Good luck !

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  3. #27

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    The tuners not bent, but a couple are mounted crooked.
    The guard may be warped but most do over time.
    As for the tp being mounted off center, I've seen a ton of Gibsons from all eras like that, though this one is particularly off center.

  4. #28

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    Gibson did build a very small number of archtops in the late '80's. Here's a 1987 L-5C that I once owned, sold to me back then by a current forum member:

    Gibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-l-5c-1987-front-jpg
    Gibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-l-5c-1987-rear-jpg


    I owned a number of other late '80's Gibson archtops :

    '87 JS 25th

    Gibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-front-2-jpg

    '89 L-5CES
    Gibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-l-5-cesn-front-jpg

    '89 JSD 25th
    Gibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-front-jpg

    I felt that Gibson's carved-top guitars took a big leap in quality after 1991 and soon replaced all my '80's L-5s with newer versions.

    As for the label stuff, never paid much attention to it, but some buyers seemed obsessed. The guitars I had from that period that were not signed by Hutch or Triggs (or anyone, for that matter) were the same quality as those with designer labels.

    Danny W.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    James "Hutch" Hutchins was a great guy. But there is no extra value to be attached to a Hutch signed L5CES, I aver. Hutch was the first Custom Shop Supervisor under the then newly reorganised Gibson under Henry J. and yes, he oversaw the renaissance of Gibson archtops which had languished under Norlin Gibson. It is also true that when Hutch was Shop Sup, the maple had a particular figure to it, and the finishes, especially sunburst, had a particular colour tone.

    But the guitars aren't any better or worse than what came under Shop Sups Mark McGuire and Philip Whorton. James D. Culberson took over the signing off on the labels when Hutch retired. Culbersons are no slouch either. I don't know who took the talk about Hutch and went running off with it in a direction for which it was never meant. Nobody ever suggested that Hutch signed labelled guitars were any special; they had a characteristic look and style, if you want to call it that, but that was it.
    I've got a 2002 L5CES signed by Mr. Hutchins. I didn't know anything about the history. Thanks Jabberwocky.

    Cincy

  6. #30
    Gibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-41abc2db-624f-44a5-b419-100f060bd50d-jpgGibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-7901a539-af59-4e21-a16e-e865f81202c0-jpg
    Thanks again for everyone’s input. Checked both guitars out this morning and am writing this in the cab en-route to the airport. Empty handed at this time, but may return for a closer inspection and trial of the 1988.

    1991: Thanks for bringing the issues with tuner installment and the off-center tailpiece to my attention. I had noticed something off about the tailpiece, but was hoping it might be the lighting or photo angle. As it turns out it was clearly off (quite pronounced as seen on the attached picture-assuming I can figure out how to post one :-) ). As for the tuners,I hadn’t noticed these on the pictures but thanks to the heads up from forum members I paid special attention to this, and sure enough the B and G-string tuners were clearly installed crooked. While these are only cosmetic things, they can’t be un-seen once noticed and would likely push a borderline OCD person such as myself over the edge eventually! :-). It sounded ok (probably more to do with the amp than the guitar-tube rattle and scratchy pots on Fender Hot Rod), and felt great, however.

    1988: Beautiful guitar, no closet queen - clearly a well played guitar that’s seen it’s fair share of work and gigs over the years. Felt great and sounded great (through a Polytone Taurus). Looked like there might be a potential issue with neck (probably just needed a good setup and slight truss rod tweak, but I wasn’t prepared to take a gamble on that, given the amount of money involved and limited time available. Am considering returning for a second trial/test and having it cleaned, set up and inspected by a qualified luthier before making the final decision.

    Thanks again for your assistance - will keep you posted :-)

    Cheers,
    v281

  7. #31

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    Here is what I've been told about the Jim signed labels. This came from two people who knew him well and his situation in Nashville.

    Jim did the "internals" of the bodies of archtops on those guitars, which he was highly respected for. The rest of the work was performed by others usually but not always. Even though he didn't complete the guitar, other members in the custom shop took inspiration from Jim's presence. That seemed to have an effect on what came out of the shop.

    I have an acoustic L-5 with Jim's signature. That may better demonstrate the direct benefit of his work than an instrument with a thick top and two pickups, or in the case of my other instrument, three pickups.

  8. #32

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    It is really scary buying a guitar like this from someone you don't know.
    It makes me realize just how fortunate I've been. Thanks Vinny, Patrick, Mikey and Steve.
    I really took for granted just how lucky I was to have gotten perfect guitars from people who went through the trouble of vetting them out. Every guitar I got was special. In retrospect, I've made a lot of mistakes and let some really great ones pass through my hands. Lucky for me, some of them are with friends now who did what I should have done. And that is, kept them and appreciated them. I wont make that same mistake again. Dont get me wrong. I didnt abuse them. Its just that I should still own at least 2 of them. One is hopefully near a window right now enjoying the view of the South Pacific. The other, is on a stage in Asia, on the lap of a great player who entertains 1,000's of fans every night. I somehow get the feeling those 2 guitars are a hell of a lot happier now than they were in my possession..
    V281, You have experienced the very best of what this forum can offer. There are some really great people here, who seem to come out and lend a hand whenever the need arises. It was getting a little stale around here and your post seemed to perk it right up again. I wish you the best of luck with your quest to buy an L5. When you get your guitar, please let us know about it.
    Joe D

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405 View Post
    It is really scary buying a guitar like this from someone you don't know.
    It makes me realize just how fortunate I've been. Thanks Vinny, Patrick, Mikey and Steve.
    I really took for granted just how lucky I was to have gotten perfect guitars from people who went through the trouble of vetting them out. Every guitar I got was special. In retrospect, I've made a lot of mistakes and let some really great ones pass through my hands. Lucky for me, some of them are with friends now who did what I should have done. And that is, kept them and appreciated them. I wont make that same mistake again. Dont get me wrong. I didnt abuse them. Its just that I should still own at least 2 of them. One is hopefully near a window right now enjoying the view of the South Pacific. The other, is on a stage in Asia, on the lap of a great player who entertains 1,000's of fans every night. I somehow get the feeling those 2 guitars are a hell of a lot happier now than they were in my possession..
    V281, You have experienced the very best of what this forum can offer. There are some really great people here, who seem to come out and lend a hand whenever the need arises. It was getting a little stale around here and your post seemed to perk it right up again. I wish you the best of luck with your quest to buy an L5. When you get your guitar, please let us know about it.
    Joe D
    JD,

    I have let a few women and guitars go over the years that in retrospect, were unwise decisions. Perhaps we all do this at some point. It certainly helps us focus on what works for us in respect to what we want from those wonderful creations. Luckily, I now have a great woman and many great guitars (if it were the other way around, I think I would have already died from the stress ) . You now know that you want a Gibson L-5. For jazz guitar, that is the benchmark that many strive for, including the OP in this thread.

    I have played a few L-5's in my day that were duds and a few that were amazing (I own one of those today) and many that were simply great guitars. Finding the right one is pretty similar to finding the right gal. They generally don't come knocking at your door. You have to spend some effort to find the one that works.

    Here is hoping that both you and the OP find the L-5 of your dreams sooner rather than later (because life is short and it is later than you think).

    And I think I speak for most of us on this forum when I say that we look forward to some very happy NGD posts from both of you.

  10. #34

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    At this present time finding a great L5 will be a challenge but not impossible. The fact that their isn’t a single new one in any music store in the USA drives up the used prices and the fact that people that have great L5’s usually only sell them when they get too old to play them.

    Sadly for us the archtop renaissance is behind us. I talked to Gibson 2 days ago and they said they had no plans to put the ES175 back into production. That kind of spells it out right there. Even the 275 now has a stop tailpiece.
    They no longer offer any guitar with a trapeze tail.

    V281.... your perfect L5 is out there. IMO seeing the high price on some less than stellar used ones ordering a new one for a couple grand more might be a viable no risk option. Gibson does honor their lifetime warranty. Take it from one that knows. Best of Luck !!!

  11. #35

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    I'm looking at a 2003 as well. Are the Hutchins still full size 17"?

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomvwash View Post
    I'm looking at a 2003 as well. Are the Hutchins still full size 17"?
    In 2003 Gibson made both 17" x 3&3/8" and 15.5" x 2&5/8" L-5 models; the latter will likely be labeled "L-5 Signature." I am playing one of these now and it is signed by Hutch. I suspect that there are also full-size ones from that year signed by him too. It's really easy to tell the smaller ones just by looking--the tailpiece will be much closer to the bridge and the bridge will be south of the center line of the f-holes.

    Danny W.
    Last edited by Danny W.; 01-11-2021 at 08:18 PM.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomvwash View Post
    I'm looking at a 2003 as well. Are the Hutchins still full size 17"?
    Yes.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny W. View Post
    In 2003 Gibson made both 17" x 3&3/8" and 15.5" x 2&5/8" L-5 models; the latter will likely be labeled "L-5 Signature." I am playing one of these now and it is signed by Hutch.

    Danny W.
    Thank you, Danny, Nice of you to respond. I was just out to this guy's house, and he's down to $4500. Would you mind looking at this? I'm not well-schooled. Decal has no serial and is on the treble side, not the base side. I am waiting for him to forward serial #.

    Gibson L-5 Hollowbody Guitar Custom Shop - musical instruments - by...

  15. #39

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    I had the good fortune to own 2 L5CES and a Super 400. The L5’s were Hutch models and their build qualities and wood were superb.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomvwash View Post
    Thank you, Danny, Nice of you to respond. I was just out to this guy's house, and he's down to $4500. Would you mind looking at this? I'm not well-schooled. Decal has no serial and is on the treble side, not the base side. I am waiting for him to forward serial #.

    Gibson L-5 Hollowbody Guitar Custom Shop - musical instruments - by...
    That is a full-size L-5. I edited my post to explain what to look for. As for labels, the model & serial are usually on the bass side and the signature label is usually on the treble side. With Gibson, "usually" is the operative word.

    Danny W

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomvwash View Post
    Thank you, Danny, Nice of you to respond. I was just out to this guy's house, and he's down to $4500. Would you mind looking at this? I'm not well-schooled. Decal has no serial and is on the treble side, not the base side. I am waiting for him to forward serial #.

    Gibson L-5 Hollowbody Guitar Custom Shop - musical instruments - by...
    don't wait too long, you don't want someone to swoop in and edge you out, $4500 is a pretty good deal

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon View Post
    don't wait too long, you don't want someone to swoop in and edge you out, $4500 is a pretty good deal
    Yes, I'm sweating this one out. I don't think I saw a sticker on the bass end, almost sure of it. Not promising, and I'm working on reading the headstock serial

  19. #43

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    ...seller just forwarded another pic of the actual serial # decal, in the case.. It checks out as 2003. Good to go! Thank you for the twin sticker education, very helpful. Nice price for an L-5.

  20. #44

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    if it's local I'd go over as soon as possible w/cash in hand.

    .......you're still here?

  21. #45

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    Yes, he's holding it for me, headed back with a wad of cash tomorrow. Serial # checks out. Glad he was able to locate the other sticker in the case, superb condition, otherwise.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomvwash View Post
    Yes, he's holding it for me, headed back with a wad of cash tomorrow. Serial # checks out. Glad he was able to locate the other sticker in the case, superb condition, otherwise.
    $4500 for this guitar in superb condition is a bargain.

    Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

  23. #47

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    $4500 for a L5CES “today” is a steal!!! A 2003 Hutch? C’mon, I’d run to get it!

  24. #48

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    Jim Hutchins was a highly respected member of the Gibson team, and responsible for spearheading quality to new levels. His legacy is highly regarded by Gibson. Here is an article from Gibson about "Hutch" and his contribution to Gibson.

    Gibson Guitar's James "Hutch" Hutchins Leaves Behind a Legacy All His Own

    Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    $4500 for a L5CES “today” is a steal!!! A 2003 Hutch? C’mon, I’d run to get it!
    You're right on that one. Im meeting him during the workday.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    $4500 for a L5CES “today” is a steal!!! A 2003 Hutch? C’mon, I’d run to get it!
    If anyone is still reading this thread from last night, here is the other sticker, not on guitar but in case cubby hole. It looks slightly damaged. And if the damage is connected to something with the guitar, please put your two cents in, before I spring for this later today. thank you!
    Attached Images Attached Images Gibson L-5: Does the model year of a James Hutchins signed L-5 matter?-tag-jpg