-
Another interesting subject:
Reactive Load SS amps.
The future of SS amps lies within this technology IMO.
Years ago, Pritchard amps pioneered a feedback loop between the speaker and a reactive load circuit that made his SS amps feel like tube amps. Not that you would confuse the two but for the first time, a SS amp was created which has the organic and interactive feel of a tube circuit. (Pierce may have been doing something along these lines also?)
Peavey later did something similar with the transtube series.
More recently, Quilter and DV Mark are doing something really similar. To me, the Quilter and DV sound more organic than even the modeling amps and I think they hold the future of tiny but power guitar amps that can get great and dynamic clean and distorted tone.
-
05-09-2019 04:03 PM
-
Used to have a PRS Harmonic Generator amp years ago.I believe it was built by Eric Pritchard. Not sure if had the design you are talking about. Wasn't a bad amp,but a bit under powered and large in size compared to today's SS offerings.
I'm actually quite happy with the Quilter Aviator Clean tone, but would like a bit more Fender type of breakup in the gain knob.
Have you tried the new Hughes and Kettner Black Spirit 200 yet Jack?
-
Award Session is applying this technology in their BluesBaby 22 and 45 amps. The technology mimics the interaction of the output transformer and the speaker. According to Steward Ward it is actually this interaction that is responsible for what guitarists call 'tube sound' and 'tube feel' and not the tubes themselves. SS amps don't need an output transformer and are therefore lacking this interaction.
Owning a Bluesbaby 22, I can testify that this technology makes the response of a SS-amp very tube-like!
*edit: Award Session can also apply this in older Sessionette 75 amps, as the "RetroTone"-mod.
Here's an interesting write up by Steward Ward about the subject:
https://www.award-session.com/pdfs/t...amp_tone_1.pdfLast edited by Little Jay; 05-10-2019 at 07:40 AM.
-
Hmm, a long time ago (70's or 80's?) Galien Krueger used to make an SS Guitar Amp (might have been 100w with 2 12's - can't really remember) with an output transformer that their marketing literature claimed captured the "tube sound."
-
I had no idea what you were talking about Jack so I did a quick search and found this;
Suhr Reactive Load | Humbucker Music
Am I putting it together correctly that, ...the reason you cannot turn on a tube amp without it being connected to a speaker or it will damage the circuit, because it needs the “load” resistance, and that load has a bearing on the tone produced. So a Reactive Load SS amp emulates that function, which would make it sound/feel more similar to a ube amp?
I have read glowing things about Pritchard amps but the common opinion seems to be....why should I spend $2500 to simulate a tube amp when I can buy a fine tube amp for $2500?
-
That Suhr product is addressing a somewhat different issue. It’s intended to take the place of a speaker when you want to keep your amp silent while taking a direct out signal from its output stage. Direct out devices that use a simple resister as a load don’t give the output stage the same impedance vs. frequency as an actual speaker, which can alter the frequency response of the power amp. The Suhr product is supposed to better simulate the speaker load. But it’s not intended to make a SS amp sound more like a tube amp.
Originally Posted by whiskey02
It’s my understanding that Award-Sessions “Reactive Loading”, Peavey’s Transtube, etc. are trying to make the output stages of SS amps respond more like tube amps by better emulating the output stages and sagging power supplies of tube amps.
-
no, not really interested in modeling amps at this point. Originally Posted by jads57
-
That's a completely different thing. The reactive load in SS amp design is something that you don't see advertised but it's an attribute of the design of the amp that interacts with the speaker in a similar way as an output transformer with a tube amp. The reason you'd want to use a SS amp with a reactive amplifier vs. a tube amp is that you can get a 50w reactive SS amp into a 2lb package vs a 50lb package for the tube amp.
And price. The SS amps are about 20% the price of their respective tube amp cousins. Pritchard is an outlier. Not sure how he stays in business but the other amps are all well under $600
Originally Posted by whiskey02
-
Okay Kirk, if we forget about the product link, is my guess about what a "reactive load" SS amp is ( trying to) accomplish in the right ballpark? I'm not exactly a tech savvy person, certainly lacking JZ's level of understanding of how amplifiers work.
-
no, you are way off. The suhr product is designed as an amplifier attenuator and silent recording device. The tech is completely different from what I'm talking about. The technology I'm talking about is a way to make a solid state amp have a varying load that utilizes the speaker motor as part of it's output circuit with the result being that it feels like it's breathing in the same way a tube amp feels like. Originally Posted by whiskey02
-
It sounds interesting, but if given examples are DV or Quilter, I don't think I'll be on board. It didn't feel much like tube amp either one, especially DV, very stiff and undynamic sound.
The most tube like response in SS amp I found was ZT Lunchbox. If they can expand and make more reliable amps that would be cool.
But mostly I put my hopes into micro tube technology or whatever they call it, like what Vox are doing with mini heads MV series. That could be a promising future.
-
We just have different tastes then. Neither the DV Mark jazz nor the Quilter are stiff AT ALL! I sold my Carol Ann ODR-2 tube amp after getting the quilter because the cleans were so close. The carol ann is legendary for a big, breathy, transparent, clean tube amp sound. The DV Mark has a similar response. My dad has a lunchbox amp with reverb and about the only thing positive I can say about it is that it's portable. Talk about Stiff! No tube amp feel at all! Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
Just curious if you think this sounds stiff? If so, I guess we just chalk it up to different tastes. Nothing wrong with that.
-
I did a blindfold A/B comparison between the DV Mark Little Jazz and a pristine 1964 Ampeg Reverberocket. I added reverb in front of the amps with a Boss ME80. Originally Posted by jzucker
We just have different tastes then. Neither the DV Mark jazz nor the Quilter are stiff AT ALL! I sold my Carol Ann ODR-2 tube amp after getting the quilter because the cleans were so close. The carol ann is legendary for a big, breathy, transparent, clean tube amp sound. The DV Mark has a similar response. My dad has a lunchbox amp with reverb and about the only thing positive I can say about it is that it's portable. Talk about Stiff! No tube amp feel at all!
Just curious if you think this sounds stiff? If so, I guess we just chalk it up to different tastes. Nothing wrong with that.
The listener couldn't tell which was which, or if I'd changed amps at all. Small changes in the EQ on either amp were much more obvious than changing from one amp to another.
This test was done at rehearsal volume and with only one judge, so someone might reasonably quibble with my experimental design.
Previously, I'd compared that Ampeg to a Roland JC55. I can hear the sonic difference between those two much more clearly. There's an icy or stiff quality to the JC55 compared to the Ampeg, even though the JC55 still sounds good.
As far as a comparison with the Lunchbox, I won't repeat all my negative comments about the LB, other than to say I thought it sounded awful, no matter what I did with it.
Does the DV Mark LJ have this special technology?
-
Yes, different tastes, different requirements, different styles etc I guess? I really enjoyed my ZT while it lasted, it was very comfortable to play, it could get that break up tone very very good. Originally Posted by jzucker
We just have different tastes then. Neither the DV Mark jazz nor the Quilter are stiff AT ALL! I sold my Carol Ann ODR-2 tube amp after getting the quilter because the cleans were so close. The carol ann is legendary for a big, breathy, transparent, clean tube amp sound. The DV Mark has a similar response. My dad has a lunchbox amp with reverb and about the only thing positive I can say about it is that it's portable. Talk about Stiff! No tube amp feel at all!
Just curious if you think this sounds stiff? If so, I guess we just chalk it up to different tastes. Nothing wrong with that.
I ordered Quilter and DV Mark heads from MF last year, thinking I'll keep one, but hated and returned both, trying with all kind of different cabs, didn't suit my playing.
I honestly much prefer my AER with Tech 21 preamp pedal before any Quilter or DV, it gets a great tube like compression.
My main amp of course is Vintage 47 replica of old octal Gibson amp, and that's what I judge all other amps by, far from classic clean Fender tones.
-
All amps tube and SS have their pluses and minuses. And while I love small Fender tube amps as well as some the 1950's Gibson's as well,especially with 6v6 tubes.
For practical purposes Quilter Aviator amps are the best compromise I've found yet. Boss Katanna 100 is quite interesting as well,especially with all the onboard effects and low price.
One issue with the Katana I've found is it can't go 4 ohms. And so with a 2x12" cab I have to run it at 16 ohms, which I didn't care for.
-
Hey Jack, have you tried the Quilter 101? I'm quite digging it so far, but ust wondering how it compares to the OD200, aside from wattage.
-
I had the exact same thoughts when looking at the new BOSS Tube Amp expander (reactive load plus SS-power-amp, plus fx _after_ the amp, and much more). It's quite expensive but very interesting (OK, at least for gear-hunting-side of me...;-)).
We might soon see entire boxes that have a (small) pure tube amp (with tube power amp) and such a thing built in. Something like the boxes Hughes and Kettner did in the 80s but on a more refined level and with more power to drive speakers.
-
maybe but I like my amps discrete. I like my tube amps and I like my SS amps. There's an amp reviewed by GP magazine recently though that used a full tube pre and power amp but had a reactive load instead of an output transformer. Never heard it though. Originally Posted by MikeTT
-
yes, it's a cool amp. Same design as the OD200 Originally Posted by Jehu
-
I had a GK SS guitar amp back in the late 70s. 50 watts through a single 12. It made nearly every guitar sound like rubbish and I bought and sold a few guitars before trying a Peavey Classic 30 and realizing my amp was the problem.
-
neither of those are reactive load amps. Originally Posted by Bach5G
-
A speaker by design is a reactive load.
-
Yes, but it's all about how the amp (power- and preamp) are connected to this load, and how they react to a dynamic load. As far as I know these dynamics are just a given in classic tube amp designs (with some designs more, with others less...negative feedback etc pp), in SS-amp-designs - it seems to me - a lot of times the speaker is/was too much isolated from the amp and not a lot of feedback/interaction was going on, or not in a very "musical" way.
Of course sometimes you want that isolation, e.g. when you just want to make a completely formed signal (modeler) louder or just want the interaction between input and preamp.
For me personally, modelers still don't work live. I use them for practicing or sometimes when there's no other option, but even with the "best" ones, something still bothers me after a few hours of use. Might have a lot to do with what one used in the past, I probably played too long through traditional amps and am locked in to that sound and feeling, lol.
-
Just stumbled on this thread!! Obviously not a lot of interest in the Sessionette here. It was OK for Jan Akkerman!! (and EC). I have the reissue Sessionette 75 from the 90s. They don't do the retro tone on those but Session claimed it was 'better' than the 80s model. Maybe it doesn't need the retro tone mod. Anyway I've done many a rock gig with it instead of either my Twin or my Musicman. It lacks nothing in comparison. Originally Posted by Little Jay
-
Yes, Award Session was/is onto something imho. I find their amps sounding and reacting better than other SS-amps. The most striking is their volume: the 22 watts of the Bluesbaby are really the same 22 watts as that of a Deluxe Reverb for example, whille typically 22 watts in other SS-amps would by no means be enough to use that amp on stage. I can even use the Bluesbaby with a big band (mic-ed that is, but still). Originally Posted by garybaldy
I think their amps are worth checking out for jazz guitarists as well, especially the 45 watts models. And they are very reasonably priced.
Btw, Eric Clapton used the Rockette:30 model ;-)
Reply With Quote
Part 2 Secrets to McCoy Tyner using 4ths,...
Today, 07:31 PM in Improvisation