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Hello Everyone,
It is my first post on this forum that I have been reading for so long ! But I have a very big choice to make and definitely needs advices from you experienced jazzers !!
I'm a very average player, have always played on accoustic guitars so far. I first owned a Taylor Big Baby (was so good), then got serious with a martin 00-15 I bought like ten years ago. I stopped playing for a while and went back to practicing intensively since a year and recently purchased another Martin 00-17S for shorter scale/great neck.
I never really got into electric guitars because I am just very disturbed when I strum it, and the sounds comes from another place than the soundhole.... It stupids but it feels so weird to me ! ALso all I could ever try was budget electrics, epiphones or squier, and their very poor building quality/feeling compare to my Martins maybe participated in the fact that I got off electric guitars...
Since a few months I got very attracted by THE jazz sounds. It just feels so cool, so clean, that's the sound that I want ! And decided to invest in a jazz guitar.
After hours and hours of researches, reading reviews blabla, my choices went on the ES-175 VOS.
I kept reading that the guitar is very accoustic, good building quality but fat neck...
In my street there is that store that is selling one, for a good price. It's a 2016 model , blonde, just stunning.
After months of restraining I finally decided to make a try and invest.
I went yesterday for the trial, and ended up being so, so confused.
- At first a good surprise with the neck, that feels very comfortable despite my small ends, I guess if I was used to a strat neck it would feel like a baseball bat, but coming from accoustic it just feels like home to me
- Also the size was OK for me, I don't like big guitars, this size felt confortable.
- BUT The finish on the guitar is very very far from what I am used to on my accoustic martins. On the neck joint, it is just a mess between painting and maybe glue. The frets are for some of them not well polished at the end. Some of them are "into" the binding, others are over the binding. I see a few painting issues also. The pickup selector that is floating feels nowhere near solid...
- The "accoustic tone" attributed to this ES-175 59 on forums was totally absent to my ear. That was just the chord sound to me, nothing coming from the wood case, no vibrations at all, quite deceived.... Does it opens up with time ?
- The amplified tone sounded good to me, I think this guitar can make the tone that I love which is great
What I would like to know is, is it reasonable for me to expect, from a Gibson, the same flawless finish that I get from Martin or Taylor ? Or are just players accepting these defaults because of the legend or unique tone you get from their instruments ?
I was really expecting better on this, I mean I dig gibson marketing, seal of approval from all legendary players, I had cash in my pocket to buy that instrument but really got hesitant ....
Unfortunately I don't have chance to compare multiple models, new ES175 vos are quite rare now that they stopped producing, especially in my country (Turkey).
Tonight or tomorrow morning I will go try it again, and take pictures of the defaults that I see to share with you guys and have your expert opinion.
Is there any point that you guys would advise me to check on the guitar ? Neck setup/action was good for me.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the very long post ! Any advice welcome
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03-15-2019 06:46 AM
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If you're going to spend that money on a 175 you should make sure you're happy with every aspect of it. But, like you say it's rare for you to come across another one so maybe consider buying it and having work done to it for the frets etc. The thing is 175 guitars were made to be used as electric guitars so the acoustic properties are just a positive addition.
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sloppy neck joint finish is par for the course from what i understand (it is on mine). i would guess they do it after attaching the neck? not sure. You mean under where the fretboard is floating right?
Originally Posted by Labruse
frets shouldn't be over the binding if what i'm picturing is correct.
pickup selector should be solid...could just be a quick fix..maybe see if you can can snug it up while you're there?
it's definitely not an acoustic instrument. Those people were most certainly coming from an electric background. I've heard they open up with time (mine is still young at 5 years old). I hope they do. I can't say for sure if that's true since it's not a solid top. You need fat strings and a solid attack to make the actual body resonate. A lot of players use a normal electric guitar attack and don't make the top move at all.
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First I'm really a fan of the 59 VOS. It is a very acoustic sound as 175s go. If you try some other 175 this might be more apparent. You can't forget though it's primarily an electric guitar. As far as the finish goes, it has the VOS treatment which is basically not doing the final polish. You can with a little elbow grease and some polishing compound bring it to a high gloss. If your talking about the neck where it hangs over the body, that's the way it is they really can't get in there to clean it up very well. The fret ends should all have binding over them. Perhaps someone did an aggressive leveling?? Pixs would be helpful. To a player such as yourself looking for a more acoustic instrument, a carved top would get you much closer to the tone you seek. In a Gibson that will mean a lot more money but in some other brands you can probably do it for the same or less. Finding your sound in jazz is a real journey. It takes time and lots of guitars and it's a moving target. As your ability changes so does the instrument choice. Enjoy the journey.... Good luck with your choice.
Originally Posted by Labruse
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Gibsons often aren't finished well. I think older ones seem better, and are more acoustic too. I love the designs, but build quality is variable. If you want an archtop with an acoustic voice, then an Eastman AR371 is much more acoustic, probably better built, and is much cheaper. The only issue is the neck is a bit wide, 1.75 inches, or 44mm at the nut.
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The binding being inconsistent as far as over/under the fret bothers me. Is this a used guitar?
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My advice to you would be to trust your own judgement.
You're the one who's going to be playing and listening to the guitar - probably for years.
If you like the way it plays, sounds, looks, and feels then go ahead and buy it!
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That's true, Steve, but I think it's smart for him to mind these fine details because they might mean problems later? even if he loves it now
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OP didn't say the acoustic sound was weak but absent, I wonder if this is normal.
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The A reference to a "acoustic" sound in the context of this type of guitar is when it's plugged into the amp, versus more modern style ES-175s. As an acoustic instrument, this guitar will have little sound.
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I don't have much knowledge about Gibson quality for that particular year and model, but I would make sure that it isn't counterfeit. The way that you are describing it it might be.
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When I compare my 2014 175 VOS to the other archtops I've had or have, the build quality does not exactly shine. The bindings, the neck joint, the fret markings, the sharp cutaway, everything is less precise than a $ 400 Ibanez or a Korean-built Emperor Regent, let alone a Vestax D'Angelico or Benedetto Bravo. Why Gibson insist on the binding over fret ends, likely to bulge out in colder, drier climates, beats me. My earlier experience (in 2004-2005) with "ordinary" 175s was less than encouraging: only one out of three was acceptable. The VOS weighs significantly less than the previous ones but is not necessarily better acoustically. Louder, perhaps, but with even less sustain (however a plus for a jazz box). As an electric archtop, it's my favorite. However, a Jet Blue Ibanez AFJ 91 comes damn close and, thanks to its soft bag and carefree value, gets most gigs with our old boys' band. The audience won't notice the difference, if any.
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It is not a used guitar it is new, but they had it in store since 3 years now, guitars of this price hardly sell here. I think it was moved shops also.
I went to the shop again Saturday for another try
The guitar really feels comfortable, despite my small hands again, I really like the neck and size.
There was less people in the shop, I was alone, and could finally hear the acoustic tone of the instrument.
It was weak but present. I think joe2758 is right when he says that that guitar needs big attack to vibrate.
I tried an ES-275 side to side to compare. And to my surprise the es-275 was a lot more acoustic and vibrating than the es-175 they had in store..... Adding to the confusion ! I tried another es-275 and result was same. I mean if I put equal attack, same chord to it, the es-275 was louder and more mid-range. The 175 was more bright and metallic to my hear. Chords seemed to be same tension, not dead chords.
Fretwork was not as catastrophic as I pictured at first, its just not very clean at the end with some little cracks on the bindings, some ends are a bit itchy also, I think it is manageable.
This model is from 2016 but the guy says it is classic 57 on it and not MHS. Is that possible ? I thought they switched to MHS on these around 2014
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Please see below a picture of the neck joint that I think looks a bit messy
Maybe I am too picky but it does not seem very neat for me !!
Also binding tend to turn redish at some point on the neck, like if the overpaint that they would put on the neck (like a light cherry painting) has overflown on the binding
What do you guys think ?
Thanks in advance
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Hi,
That neckjoint looks absolutely normal to me. Maybe not the prettiest they ever made, but well within the normal range.
The reddish binding is also absolutely normal. People call it 'bleeding'. Already the Gibsons from the 50ies had it. There are guys on other forums worrying if their guitar does not develop bleeding, because it makes their guitars less 'vintage correct'
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what bleeds into it? I just thought it was some sort of oxidation. How long before it becomes noticeable?
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My 2017 ES-175 59 reissue has the bleed into the neck binding already. It is from the dye they use on the neck. Pretty normal stuff.
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thanks i'll look at mine tonight, 2013
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Oh right, I thought mine had been owned by a heavy smoker lol
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Ok thanks a lot guys this is really helping for me
Im just used to perfect 100% neat finishes from Martin (im a fanboy, love them) so I just wanted to know if these are normal...
What about humbuckers, do you know from what year they switched from classic 57 to MHS ?
Is that good news or bad news this one is on classic 57 ? It sounded good to me but I heard good feedbacks about MHS ones and i have no expert ears !!!
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I have no problems with Classic 57's, I think it's a good pickup for jazz, I have them on my touring box.
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I have 3 ES-175's. Two of them have classic 57's, my 2017 59 Reissue has the MHS PUPs. I like them both. Equally so. Originally Posted by christianm77
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That PUP selector is supposed to float. I learned that when I got one. Also learned that the VOS 175 is an amazing instrument, but...it's VOS, so it's not shiny new looking like the shiny new ones are. I can't speak for the one you're looking at, but the one I got lucky with is the best playing/sounding arch-top I've had in my hands. Not sure if I think the MHS PUPs are the final cut for this guitar, but I've never played a newer 175 that felt as good to me. That means nothing to you thought cuz...it has to speak to you...not me.
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Thanks guys for all your replies, it is of great help.
I think I will go for it I cannot retain my GAS anymore............
Plus I have the feeling that Gibson is going to speculate a bit on ES-175 and generally all historic jazz guitars, they stopped production for the first time in 50 years I heard, and I feel like prices will increase on second hand market.... And they will come back in 2 years with a new model, starting price 5kUSD haha !
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