The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hey all.

    Generally, I'm not much of an archtop player, but I've been recording recently and restrung my acoustic archtop with a fresh set of DR flatwounds. The problem I've been noticing is that the high b and e strings have a sharp, bright tone to them that kind of jumps out against the wound strings. I suppose my last set was about the same, but it's much more noticeable when listening back to my recordings. I've tried a few different mics and tried tweaking the EQ a bit, but there's still a bit of a "twang" that stands out and sounds really apparent (to me, at least; my girlfriend says I'm just losing it), and too much treble reduction in the recording takes away some of the articulation from the overtones in the lower strings.

    Has anyone here experienced this? Are there any options out there to keep the plain steel strings from jumping out with that zing in the highs? I play with the flesh of my fingers, so I can't just swap out picks or anything.

    Thanks all.

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  3. #2

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    I notice it more on heavy guage sets than the lighter guage. I adjsut the pole screws to compensate. And Older stings have less of the effect.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxJaxon
    I notice it more on heavy gauge sets than the lighter gauge. I adjust the pole screws to compensate. And Older stings have less of the effect.
    Interesting. I've been playing with thicker strings because I always operated under the assumption that thiner gauge would equal thinner tone, specifically in regards to them having weak fundamental and brilliant overtones. I'll try switching the unwound strings to a lighter set maybe.

    I will say, I have a set of Pyramid Western Folk strings on my acoustic flat top and, at the same gauge as the previous set on it, I noticed the unwound strings weren't as sharp sounding. My guess would be that they, like some of the other Austrian/German companies, the different alloy makes the difference compared to most other manufacturers who get their wire from one of a couple mills. (I believe that only Thomastik, Pyramid, and Optima use the Silberstahl alloy, but I could be wrong; I've just noticed those brands mentioned it when I was looking at their catalogs in German.)
    I can't say the difference is discernible outside of comparing recordings of the strings at the same point in their lifespan, but I do wish other companies would experiment with different alloys.

  5. #4

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    I use D'addario Chromes .12s but swap out the plains for a gauge up. Feels better for me.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by p1p
    I use D'addario Chromes .12s but swap out the plains for a gauge up. Feels better for me.
    Yes, I do this, too, but in reverse. I use Thomastik-Infeld flatwounds, and I'll buy 1st and 2nd D'Addario stainless steel .011 and .015 (for example) and the rest (wound strings) from a set of T-I 12s.

  7. #6

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    Flats and plain strings, are different, and sound different. AFAIK there is no getting around it, other than turning the treble down on the amp, the guitar, or both. That helps to some extent.

  8. #7
    I have this same problem. I need to change e and b strings to something else. What flatwound set has the darkest tone? Now im using d’addarios 11s and they are way too bright. Or is the problem my kent armstrong pickups?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art ”Artie” Storm
    I have this same problem. I need to change e and b strings to something else. What flatwound set has the darkest tone? Now im using d’addarios 11s and they are way too bright. Or is the problem my kent armstrong pickups?
    DA 11s were too twangy for me,Thomastik 12s with lowered pickups/pole pieces worked for me. I doubt if the pickup is the issue. Obviously picking/playing style and amp settings come into it too.

  10. #9

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    +1 for pickup pole adjustment. A little dab 'ill do ya.

  11. #10

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    +2 for pickup pole adjustment, and B and E strings once used are less bright than new, but still much brighter than wound strings.

    It may look strange at first but lowering the pole pieces will definitely both attenuate and take the brighter tone off the treble strings. You probably don't need to do this with a wound G string, only the B and E. And as stated above, make sure you're not using ultra slinky string gauges (like a .008 or .009 E).

    While lowering the two pole pieces, you can also slightly raise the remaining pole pieces so that at the same time you lower the brightness of the unwound treble strings you also increase the brightness of the wound strings. It's a subtle difference. You then compensate on your amplifier with tone controls as desired.

    You can also try experimenting with pickup height. In general, the closer you move a humbucker next to the strings the warmer the sound. But don't overdo it or you'll start getting a harsh tone.




    I do all the above to my bridge pickup the most. Works quite well.

  12. #11

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    I also adjust the poles and use a EQ pedal to get the sound I want.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaligulaCuddles
    Interesting. I've been playing with thicker strings because I always operated under the assumption that thiner gauge would equal thinner tone, specifically in regards to them having weak fundamental and brilliant overtones. I'll try switching the unwound strings to a lighter set maybe.
    Jim Hall used .010s, often with a plain 3rd. Was his tone thin? Ditto Ed Bickert. John Abercrombie used .009s, I believe, and got a pretty fat tone (using his thumb for the last half of his career). Bickert and Abercrombie generally played solidbodies, Jim of course played the ES-175, D'Aquisto and Sadowsky.

    I think that with lighter strings the acoustic sound may be thiner, but through the pickups the difference is fairly minimal. And you have to play with a different touch to avoid twang.

  14. #13

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    This seems like less of a problem with Thomastiks - the unwound strings have some kind of bronze colored coating on them designed to tone them down.

    Also GHS flats don't seem to have the problem in my experience.

  15. #14

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    I forgot about this thread.
    I ordered a couple single Thomastiks the other day, just to try on my acoustic archtop for the high e and b strings. Just out of curiosity, I went with a .014 for the high e string, and a .018 for the b string. They're flatwound, so the tension is actually a bit less than the .012 and .016 I have on now, so... who knows. Could be interesting.
    ¯\_(?)_/¯.

  16. #15

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    try different picks and picking angles as well, that's where the tone is produced.

  17. #16

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    I've been using these strings for years and love them! The set has 5 wound strings including a wound second (14w)! Thomastik-Infeld Steel/Nickel Flat Wound Light Steel Core, .010 - .038, KF110

    Personally, I prefer my high E to have a little more punch as I use it a lot for accents etc. Nothing like hitting the E string and and be left there holding a "plink". Also, as others have mentioned, you can lower that side of your pickup or lower the poles on them if that's what you have.

  18. #17

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    I have a similar sonic experience with a set of Thomastik flats on a 335 style guitar,I’ve lowered the treble side of the pickups,nurse my tone control,etc,and the plain strings are still way too bright.So I swapped out the B and high E strings with an Ernie Ball 10 and 14 and guess what? yup still bright.

  19. #18

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    With a little more time and experimentation, I think this is a solution that can just be solved with hex core, steel flats. The Thomastiks have round core and nickel wrap, which makes them darker sounding than any unwound steel string. Steel flats are more even across the wound and unwound strings. So if you're taming highs, they're going to be tamed more evenly across the strings.
    Last edited by One_Note; 04-16-2021 at 09:18 AM.