Sustainably and ethically produced guitars

[Lobke]

Hi everyone,

I am working on a school assignment related to sustainably and ethically produced guitars.
I wonder what you guys are thinking about when talking about this topic. What do you think is or isn't sustainable or ethical about guitar production? How can this process be improved? Thoughts about other musical instruments are welcome too

[marcwhy]

Hi - welcome to the Forum!

You may want to repost this in "The Builder's Bench" page where more specifically knowledgeable members would see it.

Good luck on the project!

[paulkogut]

I've performed at a number of conventions for the Guild Of American Luthiers. I know they had panel discussions on the subject from time to time, maybe you can get some good info from them. Homepage | Guild of American Luthiers

PK

[Drumbler]

A guitar with good sustain is a beautiful thing.

[339 in june]

Hooray for organic and sustain able guitars !

[Gitfiddler]

Check out Taylor Guitars. They've raised the issue of forest conservation and sustainable guitar building practices more than most other brands. They run articles in guitar magazines discussing the topic and build their instruments with an eye for the future of our limited wood resources.

One example is how they actively seek out Ebony from fallen trees, some of which are less than 'perfect' (pure black in color). Ebony with reddish brown streaks are the least desirable and is often left in the forest or tossed out at the warehouse. Taylor is using some of this 'imperfect' Ebony to build guitar fretboards and they are beautiful. The amount of wasted 'imperfect' Ebony is staggering.

Sustainability - Environmentally Responsible Company | Taylor Guitars

Ebony Project | Taylor Guitars

[pauln]

I suppose sustainably and ethically produced guitars suggest being played in a sustainably and ethically enlightened manner through sustainably and ethically produced amps in sustainably and ethically built performance venues for audiences that only wear sustainably and ethically produced clothing, who arrived by way of sustainably and ethically produced transportation, and who limit their consumption to sustainably and ethically produced food and beverages.

Maybe on a more serious note, the most profound statement one can make with regard to sustainably and ethically produced products is to refuse to accept a new product and use an old existing one, because its impacts are sunk costs. There are virtually no products made today that can compete thermodynamically on a sustainably and ethically produced basis against their extant old counterparts.

[Cunamara]

Ethics and sustainability are huge challenges in the manufacture of any item. In the case of guitars, sustainability typically is going to refer to the resources harvested to make the guitar: specifically wood, since it is an increasingly restricted resource, but also environmental damage produced by manufacturing such as finishing the wood, milling, direct manufacturing processes, etc. There are going to be a waste products created; how are those handled?

And in terms of ethics, one of the questions would be whether the people doing the logging are being paid a fair wage for their work, provider with safety equipment, whether they have any healthcare protection in case of injury or illness associated with their work, etc. Many consumable products around the world are produced with extremely low paid labor or even slave labor, as uncomfortable as that is to think about (in some places in the world, for example, seafood is harvested by people who are essentially or literally slaves. Manufacturing in China is sometimes done in prison camps utilizing unpaid workers. Etc.).

If you have not looked at the fair trade model of doing business, you might find that an interesting area of study that could bear upon your research. There are American importers that use fair trade strategies for dealing with producers of coffee and bananas, for example. These products are usually labeled as such.

Another apropos model to examine might be Fender guitars. There are Fender guitars made in California, Fender guitars made in Mexico, Fender guitars made in Asia. Each of them occupy different price points in guitar stores, largely due to differences in labor costs associated with production. Apparently Leo Fender or someone like that once said "you can buy a Fender guitar made in America by Mexicans or you can buy a Fender guitar made in Mexico by Mexicans." The guitars are basically identical but the ones made in Mexico are half the price of the ones made in America because of lower labor costs and other overhead. The Fender guitars made in Asia are a quarter to third of the cost of American made Fender guitars. Gibson opted to keep its brand made in America, using the Epiphone brand for less expensive instruments made in Asia. That's one reason that Gibson guitars are uniformly more expensive than many of their competitors. This appeals to folks who prefer to buy American made goods on principle and probably turns away those who are driven more by price- for whatever reason- in their product selection. The disparities in labor costs, worker rights and protections, etc., are factors in international trade agreements and in complaints thereof (e.g., that this forces American workers to compete with much lower paid workers and other parts of the world for jobs. If the disparity is too great, the manufacturer moves the jobs to the cheaper area).

In short, you have tremendous scope for research in addressing ethics and sustainability in guitar manufacture and production. You may need to narrow the scope by some means, such as looking at a specific manufacturer, to make the task manageable.

[lammie200]

To my knowledge all guitars are gluten free if that makes a difference.

[cosmic gumbo]

Compared to the amount of wood people use globally just to burn for heat and the wood used to make paper products, I don't think guitars make any dent in the planet's resources. Are people going to stop buying pizza in boxes, fast food, or take-out coffee cups that use way more wood products than guitars?

Rosewood gets too expensive because of scarcity, do they stop making guitars? They may BS about conservation as an excuse to why they use cheaper or less desirable materials. How much do you think the wood actually costs for a $5000 guitar? $15?

[Alter]

I do consider it unethical that you cannot use certain wood types to make guitars anymore

[Average Joe]

The most sustainable thing would be to only buy/use used guitars. There are probably enough guitars in the world to last the playing public several generations, even if we limit the scope to giggable instruments. I'm also sure more could be done to repair rather than replace guitars, amps or pedals.

As for sustainable production, Taylor seem to be doing something with their use of previously rejected cuts of ebony.

[Grez]

From a more pratical if less deepy considered standpoint, using a combination of relcaimed wood, FSC wood, domestic woods and local (California) labor, gets me through the day with out feeling too bad.

[GNAPPI]

I consider it unethical for the global community to attempt to dominate a sovereign country to tell them how to use THEIR resources.

I think it's unethical to crab about consuming renewable wood resources in instruments. It's called forestry management, if a country elects to not use it... well then it's none of anyone's business.

I think "responsible" countries need to keep their noses out of others business.

[Cunamara]

Wood for a $5000 guitar is a bit more than $15, at least for a proper archtop, flattop or classical guitar. Boutique plank guitars are often way overpriced IMHO. For any instrument, AAA or AAAA maple, spruce, mahogany, etc., ain't cheap. As for "renewable" wood, old growth timber is not renewable as anyone in the logging industry could tell you. And that wood is a big part of why vintage instruments sound the way they do.

Also, perhaps it would be good for folks to read about "the tragedy of the commons."

[GNAPPI]

Old growth trees will die of their own accord, nothing to be done about that but plant new trees every year, and in a couple of hundred years, old growth all over again :-)

[Jazzstdnt]

To my knowledge all guitars are gluten free if that makes a difference.

But if gluten free how will it produce that fat sound?

[Jazzstdnt]

I do consider it unethical that you cannot use certain wood types to make guitars anymore

You mean like Brazilian Rosewood? I think that there is talk that their new president may open that up just a little.

It might be interesting (and responsible) to harvest no more than 5-10 trees per year, thereby rendering the wood to be highly prized. Tonally, they say there is nothing quite like it, but I don't really know if that's true.

[Jazzstdnt]

I'm OK with solid bodes being made out of something other than wood if it comes to that. If it gets too heated politically, all guitars need not be treated equally. Does a solid body really need to be made out of wood?

[paulkogut]

Not sure of the scope of your project, but you might want to check out the CITES treaty NAMM offers signs of hope with CITES | Music Instrument News

PK

[Cunamara]

Old growth trees will die of their own accord, nothing to be done about that but plant new trees every year, and in a couple of hundred years, old growth all over again :-)

That would be great but unfortunately, as I have read about it anyway, no. Replanted trees grow differently than true old growth forests and are considered poorer quality- structurally as well as aesthetically- for most purposes. Old growth is pretty much a one shot deal. And the niche market of fine guitar making competes for that wood with vastly larger industries. Replanted forest woods are usually grown and intended for pulp and paper, OSB, chipboard, etc.

Might be that forest management science and techniques have improved since the last time I did any reading on the subject, though. That would be good.

And then there is the story of "The Tree," one particular renowned specimen- included because it's just an interesting tale rather than proving anything one way or another.

The Tree — Luthiers for a Cause

[ccroft]

For those interested in understanding more about sustainable forestry and ebony in particular, I recommend clicking on the links Gitfiddler gave us above. Ebony project in particular. (I personally prefer ebony with a bit of color and character)

In a addition to what Cunamara wrote I'd like to point out that under-developed countries don't have the same work-place safety and environmental protections that manufacturers in first world companies are faced with. This further lowers cost of doing business there, and raises ethical questions for consumers in clean and safe countries who profit by other's unfortunate births.

Some years ago I saw a documentary about ebony. They showed some workers in an African village cutting ebony into billets. I've been working with table saws since I was about 10, but what I saw was truly hair-raising. I won't bore you with the details. I can say without doubt that our shop would be shut down immediately if we asked our guys to do what they were doing with that machinery. I wonder how many workers have been maimed there. Guys who couldn't possibly play a guitar or a clarinet if we gave them one.

I bet Grez runs a safe shop!

[rlrhett]

I do consider it unethical that you cannot use certain wood types to make guitars anymore

Yes, and I find it an outrage that they won't let us eat dodo eggs for breakfast anymore! Do gooders run amok!

[cosmic gumbo]

Plastic Maccaferri

[Drumbler]

Caution: Plastic guitars must be made from recycled plastic only.

I'm thinking of starting a politically correct guitar company.

PC Guitars LLC.

Only politically correct musicians can buy them and only politically correct music can be played with them.

Investors wanted.