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  1. #1

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    Hi all,

    Some of you may have seen my post a few months ago regarding a jazz box I was searching for. Loving the neck dimensions on the Ibanez, I went for a PM2-aa that I got a good deal from on Reverb...

    I had some issues with the tailpiece being broken, was sent a new piece, and set that up. I spent the whole weekend trying to set it up right, adjusted the truss, bridge, but just couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted. It sounds okay...just...kind of ...cheap. I guess you get what you pay for.

    Yesterday, I went to the music shop, and on the wall I saw a Gibson Solid Formed 17 Venetian Cutaway, going for $4500 CAD, used. It had some fretwork done recently by the previous owner, plays like butter. Never heard of it, played it, and wowww. It sounds amazing unplugged, I played it so long I didn't even have time to plug it in.

    I read some information on here, some people had criticism regarding the 'cost cutting' in the solid formed, in truth I have not played many carved top, all I know is this thing felt 'right' to me. Some nice reviews here too. The projection and tone on it is amazing just unplugged. I'm going back to play it today...

    Makes me want to dump the PM2 and get the Gibson. Thoughts? Is that a good price? Anything else 'amazing' I can get in that range? I know it might not be a huge budget for some of you, but for me it is - but I can afford it.

    Guitar looked mint. It is way over my budget what I thought, but I have been playing since I was 12, and I felt inspired to play (haven't felt that way in a while). I feel it would be a lifelong purchase.

    Thank you!
    Last edited by jaguarguitar; 07-04-2019 at 07:17 PM.

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarguitar View Post
    ...I felt inspired to play (haven't felt that way in a while). I feel it would be a lifelong purchase.

    Thank you!
    Gibsons can do that. I had a J-45 that I should have never sold and now I have an ES-390. Not to knock Ibanez because I know that they make some great models, but I never felt they worked for me. I had an Ibby acoustic many years ago and it never felt or sounded right to me. Every other time I have picked up an Ibanez (no matter what model) I have felt the same way. I guess there is some consistency in the brand for what that is worth. All that said, the most I have ever paid for a guitar is $2k, so you should get input from others about the kind of scratch that you are talking about.

  4. #3

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    Make sure you try an es 175 before you plunk down that much money. Mine doesn’t have much of an acoustic sound but that’s not what it’s for. Maybe, like me, you’ll get that same, “where have you been all my life?” feeling I did on first playing.

  5. #4

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    Before you compare any two guitars, have them set up for the best they can play. Then live with a guitar for a little while.
    I might add, become a good enough of a player so you can really get the best out of any instrument.
    All this is to say that first impressions are great, and I certainly know that there are qualities that make up an amazing instrument, objective qualities that will often put a good handbuilt guitar above a well made production instrument. It is NOT necessarily the instrument that will allow you to get the most music out of yourself. In the end, a good musician will find the best match and it may very well be the unlikely one.
    I'd played a D'Angelico. Wow. The feel of that instrument is still in my hands. I own a Johnny Smith, yeah a wow guitar. But they're not right for my hands. I get more out of my JP20 musically. My primary instrument is a Chinese guitar, a dog by many standards. No cache. No sex appeal. No name. Lots of mods. It's what I need, and it disappears in my arms and I make music; it does NOT get in my way.

    So yeah, the Gibson will have something, and if it allows you to be a better guitarist, then it's better. But it's an instrument. Know yourself if you want to be able to judge the best musical instrument for you. Just one random thought from a searching musician.

    David

  6. #5

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    The Solid Formed 17 Venetian is actually a great guitar, but the marketing for it was hideous, starting with the horribly awkward name.

    I’ve had two of these, one still in hand for now, and both were really good acoustic archtops, not among the top I’ve ever played, but certainly better than a significant number of carved top archtops I’ve played.

    2015 Gibson Solid Formed 17 Hollowbody Venetian - Mint Condition

  7. #6

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    When a guitar really speaks to you, and I mean REALLY, then if you can at all, get it. Life's too short for bad tone I've had to pass up a few guitars like that cause I just couldn't afford 'em.

    OTOH, I've had a couple of really cheap guitars that are just perfect, so cost is no perfect indicator. I've let a couple of those guitars go because I thought I was upgrading, but turns out not

  8. #7

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    When a reasonably made guitar like an Ibanez PM2 sounds 'cheap', my first guess is that something isn't right with the guitar.

    People should play what they like even if they have to pay a bit more. But, for the new guitar market anyway, the era of 'getting what you pay for' ended with a world economy and quality guitars coming out of Asia.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  9. #8

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    I have owned three Japanese made Ibanez archtops. All three were pro grade guitars that delivered what was needed to sound good on the gig. But none delivered the magic of a great Gibson.

    If the solid formed speaks to you, buy it. If you don't, you will always second guess your decision not to. The price sounds fair, perhaps a lower offer should be made to see if the store is soft (these guitars are slow movers).

    Good luck!
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  10. #9
    Thanks so much all, lots of wonderful advice. I played a Jap made gb 10 before which felt very good, but i never pulled the trigger. The gibson just sounds alive if i can say it that way. Im going tonight to play it and well see what happens!

  11. #10

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    Yeah, what TruthHertz said.....

  12. #11
    pretty cool video! I was wondering, do you have flats on it? I plugged it in tonight (albeit a Vox), and it was a bit on the trebley side, although lowering the tone control made it a bit thicker, it had regular roundwounds on it. let me know, thanks!

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    Before you compare any two guitars, have them set up for the best they can play. Then live with a guitar for a little while.
    I might add, become a good enough of a player so you can really get the best out of any instrument.
    All this is to say that first impressions are great, and I certainly know that there are qualities that make up an amazing instrument, objective qualities that will often put a good handbuilt guitar above a well made production instrument. It is NOT necessarily the instrument that will allow you to get the most music out of yourself. In the end, a good musician will find the best match and it may very well be the unlikely one.
    I'd played a D'Angelico. Wow. The feel of that instrument is still in my hands. I own a Johnny Smith, yeah a wow guitar. But they're not right for my hands. I get more out of my JP20 musically. My primary instrument is a Chinese guitar, a dog by many standards. No cache. No sex appeal. No name. Lots of mods. It's what I need, and it disappears in my arms and I make music; it does NOT get in my way.

    So yeah, the Gibson will have something, and if it allows you to be a better guitarist, then it's better. But it's an instrument. Know yourself if you want to be able to judge the best musical instrument for you. Just one random thought from a searching musician.

    David
    well said, the pm2-aa is by all means a nice guitar, but you feel the difference (as i suppose one would expect) when playing a higher end archtop, which i never really have before. it has lots of annoying buzzes and things like that, but i think i may take it in for a setup one last time to see if that resolves anything. thanks for your advice!

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Spook410 View Post
    When a reasonably made guitar like an Ibanez PM2 sounds 'cheap', my first guess is that something isn't right with the guitar.

    People should play what they like even if they have to pay a bit more. But, for the new guitar market anyway, the era of 'getting what you pay for' ended with a world economy and quality guitars coming out of Asia.
    i hear you, i think my choice of words as calling the pm2 'cheap' was unfair -- it is a beautiful looking guitar, and is well made. i think, i should have been a bit more 'respectful' and said that (of course) in comparison to a 4k guitar, it can't really be compared.

    that being said, i played the gibson again tonight, and it was quite lovely, but i might see if i can give the pm2 more a fair shakedown with another setup again.

    i have played jap Ibanez (like gb10) and those felt much more 'playable'. this is the 2nd PM2 i have played, and i found that they fret buzz in the same parts of the neck (5-8th fret, particularly the B string), and raising the bridge then brings the action rather high. i also know that could be from an upbow, but adjusting the truss did not help, except remove some of the buzzing on higher bridge raising after.

    i might take it to a professional shop to see if i can get the neck the way i want it if i dont go for something else, as it is a lovely guitar - just some of the issues with the neck and random buzzing was rather frustrating to troubleshoot.

    when i played jap Ibanez' they played rather flawlessly.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan View Post
    The Solid Formed 17 Venetian is actually a great guitar, but the marketing for it was hideous, starting with the horribly awkward name.

    I’ve had two of these, one still in hand for now, and both were really good acoustic archtops, not among the top I’ve ever played, but certainly better than a significant number of carved top archtops I’ve played.

    2015 Gibson Solid Formed 17 Hollowbody Venetian - Mint Condition
    pretty cool video! I was wondering, do you have flats on it? I plugged it in tonight (albeit a Vox), and it was a bit on the trebley side, although lowering the tone control made it a bit thicker, it had regular roundwounds on it. let me know, thanks!

    also what was the other guitar you mentioned? it was a gibson custom shop tal furlow right?

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TedBPhx View Post
    Make sure you try an es 175 before you plunk down that much money. Mine doesn’t have much of an acoustic sound but that’s not what it’s for. Maybe, like me, you’ll get that same, “where have you been all my life?” feeling I did on first playing.
    thanks for the recommendation, any particular era you recommend? theres a ton on reverb and in a few local shops i found

  17. #16
    by the way, the Gibson is brand new - it is B stock, but they sent it in to an authorized dealer and did some fretwork on it, which may be why it plays so well. i think it may be a great buy at the price even for b-stock. i couldnt find anything off about it, and i have a fairly sharp eye.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarguitar View Post
    pretty cool video! I was wondering, do you have flats on it? I plugged it in tonight (albeit a Vox), and it was a bit on the trebley side, although lowering the tone control made it a bit thicker, it had regular roundwounds on it. let me know, thanks!

    also what was the other guitar you mentioned? it was a gibson custom shop tal furlow right?
    Yes, it has flats on it. The tone control is also rolled back on it because these at least with the factory BJB pickup tend to the bright side plugged in. They sound fantastic if you take a little of the top end though.

    The price seems fair for a used SF in excellent used condition, as long as it’s not marked as a second. Then I would say that the price is high.

    Yes, the Tal Farlow can be a really great value for a Gibson Custom Shop archtop. As a laminate with two pickups set in the top, it’s an entirely different beast though.

  19. #18

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    Nothing wrong with a pressed solid top. I think the Peerless Monarch also has one. At about 1/4 the price.
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  20. #19

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    I am lucky enough to own most of the guitars mentioned here so these are my $0.02...

    The PM2 is a nice guitar. IMO all of the $1k Ibanez archtops are 'nice', but nothing to write home about. The PM200 is very nice, but can't really compete with any Gibson archtop that I've played. I wouldn't have believed this, but when I picked-up my first ES175, it was light years beyond anything else that I'd played. Peerless are really nice, but (again all of this is my opinion) really can't compare to the Gibsons either.

    The absolute best guitars that I own are an L5 CES and a Benedetto Americana. The Solid Formed (horrible name) feels and sounds a lot more like the Benedetto than the L5 or any of my 175's. It isn't better (nothing is better than an L5) it is just different. The wood is astonishingly beautiful, it is very light and sounds great acoustically. If I had to choose between that guitar and a PM2, it wouldn't even be close. It's like choosing between filet mignon and a good burger from Five Guys.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarguitar View Post
    thanks for the recommendation, any particular era you recommend? theres a ton on reverb and in a few local shops i found
    Try the ones locally available. You are lucky to live in area with both Solid Form and 175s in stock.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarguitar View Post
    by the way, the Gibson is brand new - it is B stock, but they sent it in to an authorized dealer and did some fretwork on it, which may be why it plays so well. i think it may be a great buy at the price even for b-stock. i couldnt find anything off about it, and i have a fairly sharp eye.
    It would be nice if the headstock weren't stamped as a 2nd. I think that Gibson sometimes does that.

  23. #22

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    If there are ES-175's that you can try out locally, I'd be sure to do that before making a purchase.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by lammie200 View Post
    It would be nice if the headstock weren't stamped as a 2nd. I think that Gibson sometimes does that.

    In theory there was a minor flaw to make it a second ... usually with the finish ... major flaws can send the guitar to a band saw and a dumpster if they can't be fixed before it leaves the factory

    I've seen seconds with no obvious flaws and I've seen non seconds that shouldn't have left the factory


    But there is speculation that they will sometimes stamp guitars as seconds so they can lower the dealer wholesale price and make them easier to sell


    It can lower the resale value in the long run, but once a guitar's been in the wild a while it usually has a few scuffs and dings that are far more annoying than any flaw that would justify stamping it as a 2nd

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    In theory there was a minor flaw to make it a second ... usually with the finish ... major flaws can send the guitar to a band saw and a dumpster if they can't be fixed before it leaves the factory

    I've seen seconds with no obvious flaws and I've seen non seconds that shouldn't have left the factory


    But there is speculation that they will sometimes stamp guitars as seconds so they can lower the dealer wholesale price and make them easier to sell


    It can lower the resale value in the long run, but once a guitar's been in the wild a while it usually has a few scuffs and dings that are far more annoying than any flaw that would justify stamping it as a 2nd
    would there literally be a stamp on it? there was no stamp i found inside the guitar or on the neck anywhere : )

    plugged in, the tone was a bit left to be desired but a pickup swap would fix that i think. wasn't bad, just a bit bright..im going back tonight to try it on a different amp.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarguitar View Post
    would there literally be a stamp on it? there was no stamp i found inside the guitar or on the neck anywhere : )

    plugged in, the tone was a bit left to be desired but a pickup swap would fix that i think. wasn't bad, just a bit bright..im going back tonight to try it on a different amp.
    Try rolling the treble off....a LOT. Once the brightness is tamed, I’ve found the tone with the BJB to be extremely good.

  27. #26

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    I think one of the things people didn’t like about the guitar was the price didn’t match the product. Less work on the guitar with a solid formed top, skimpy appointments etc. However, what other people think doesn’t matter and if it speaks to you that is all that counts. The difference between an Ibanez and Gibson is pretty big. Not in terms of quality at the highest point - I’ve had much better made Ibanez guitars than Gibsons in the past and the MiJ Ibanez archtops are generally outstanding. However what Ibanez doesn’t have is the sound of a solid wood 17” archtop (although I’d love it if they made one). On top of that you’re dealing with a mid-quality Ibanez and a higher end Gibson so the difference between the two will be even more notable.

    A good Gibson, if that’s the sound you want, is really all you need. I had like 15 guitars this time last year and over the last 12 months have gone down to just a handful because all I want to play is my L-5. And years after buying it I’m not thinking about the money I spent on it, even though money is always tight. I’m thinking about how much I want to play it every day.

    So with all that in mind I’d also recommend playing more guitars if you are going to drop that much money. Up in that range you have a lot of possibilities to get almost exactly what you want. Now if it were me I wouldn’t listen to someone telling me that (I am impulsive to a fault and it I were enamoured by a guitar line you are describing in your situation and able to afford it then I’d already have it) but it is the logical way to approach it.

    Let us know what you decide to do!

    Paul


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  28. #27

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    ThatRythmMan's sounded great, imho! Here's another...in black!


  29. #28

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    The PM2 is not an acoustic instrument and sounds really good plugged in, in the right hands. If great acoustic sound is a priority, yeah, look elsewhere. But not a ES 175 for that purpose, lol.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat View Post
    Well it sounds great, but...

    "...because when you take a thick piece of maple and carve out a top, you're disrupting the grain pattern..."

    Oh, it's a maple top? And now a pressed top is better than a hand carved graduated top?
    Last edited by Woody Sound; 03-07-2019 at 03:09 PM.
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  31. #30
    The comparisson between an 24,75 scale laminated guitar and a 25,5 scale solid and bigger guitar does not speak by itself bad about none of the guitars.
    It could be just that your taste goes for the larger and bigger one.
    The Pm2 should be compared to more or less similar specs guitars for example a Gibson Es-175.


    Enviado desde mi LG-H870 mediante Tapatalk

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavo Eiriz View Post
    The comparisson between an 24,75 scale laminated guitar and a 25,5 scale solid and bigger guitar does not speak by itself bad about none of the guitars.
    It could be just that your taste goes for the larger and bigger one.
    The Pm2 should be compared to more or less similar specs guitars for example a Gibson Es-175.


    Enviado desde mi LG-H870 mediante Tapatalk
    While I agree in principle, the Ibanez PM2 is a $1000 guitar that should work just fine for most players in most jazz combos. Though another $200 in setup in fret work might be in order. However, I would compare the $6300 Gibson solid formed 17" (ref Sweetwater music) to other guitars in that price range. Like a nice Campellone.

    Of course, value doesn't seem to be a primary concern for Gibson fans when it comes to buying and playing a guitar that brings them joy. As it should be. But some feel better guitars bring more joy and I don't think it's going too far out on a limb to say that the Campellone would be a better guitar.
    Hell is full of musical amateurs - George Bernard Shaw

  33. #32

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    Hi everybody. Just for the record the solid formed is a 25.5 scale and not 24.75... This was a mistake even in the gibson describe section. Ununderstandable ! But I assure you. I have my own... It's exactely the same neck as my Es 175 vos 1959 on a L5 body but more lightweight and more resonant ! It's a gorgeous guitar with a marvelous acoustic sound. The pick is a little bright for me but the tone button is really efficient. So it's my favorite jazzbox with a 25.5 scale and maybe the best I've ever had especially for low volume ! Because the only real issue for this guitar is to play loud for concert...The feedback is really inconvenient. The last time I tried, I had to give up, and went back to my Parker Fly Mojo ! ;-) But I love that guitar which by the way is a mysterious model with an inappropriate name... so weird to call it that way, and somehow a kind of commercial flop ! But when you have the guitar in your arms, the carved or press wood and the name, you don't care, because it sings so marvelously nice... And it's a beauty ! In my opinion, this guitar which is I think a commercial failure, is going to have its reputation growing and growing over time. Because if you meet it, you'll be captivated ! Love this Gibson SF ! :smile-new

  34. #33

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    For our American friends, $4,500 in Canadian dollars is the currently same as @$3,400 in American dollars.
    These are excellent guitars that feel and sound great.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post
    For our American friends, $4,500 in Canadian dollars is the currently same as @$3,400 in American dollars.
    These are excellent guitars that feel and sound great.
    And I have one available in the US for $3400 shipped.

  36. #35

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    would there literally be a stamp on it? there was no stamp i found inside the guitar or on the neck anywhere : )
    The ones I've seen have a 2 above the serial number on the back of the headstock, slightly larger than the serial numbers. Not all Gibsons have the serial number stamped into the headstock, though, and my sample size is small.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post
    For our American friends, $4,500 in Canadian dollars is the currently same as @$3,400 in American dollars. These are excellent guitars that feel and sound great.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan View Post
    And I have one available in the US for $3400 shipped.
    $3,400 is a far more attractive and realistic price that whatever number that Gibson initially attached to this model.

    One can only imagine the effort it took the Gibson marketing staffers to avoid concluding that they should call the model something like the L-8C, L-11C, L-13C and so forth.

    Especially since they did issue a new "archtop" called the L-9 at the same time. That one really took the market by storm as well
    , with a "list" price of $7,099 and a MAP of, what, $5,850 (at MF)? Somewhere around $6,000. They are still out there.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  38. #37

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    That's a good price for that kind of guitar, IMO.

  39. #38

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    PM2 opinions—feel free to skip this.

    For what it’s worth at this point, there are great PM2s out there and there are dog PM2s.

    Sadly, the only consistency in the two PM2s I’ve owned was neck dive and fret buzz. The first one I had sounded every bit as good as my best ES-175. But, the neck was not right (neck dive and uneven frets) so I sent it back. The second one had a better neck (although it too had fret buzz) but sounded dead and sterile.

    I’ve heard that good PM2s are out there. I just wasn’t able to find one in my limited attempts.

  40. #39

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    (Video of my PM2 deleted. Decided it doesn't need defending)
    Last edited by Peter C; 06-28-2019 at 07:38 PM.

  41. #40

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    Dave's Guitars cleared out the new old stock SF17 sold as used for $3995 each. (By the way, the 15" Gibson Modern Archtop is being cleared for $2995 right now.)

    The SF17 was designed by Bruce Kunkel. Henry J is remembered for his errors and failures such as the $40m Robotuners, and Firebird X but he was not all bad. He allowed the Custom Shop to produce some experimental stuff and release them to the dealers. Archtop guitars have never been big sellers but we still saw interesting though shortlived designs. The SF17 was one. I read about Gibson wanting to stop archtop production way back in 1989. To his credit, Henry J. kept Gibson archtop guitars in production all the way until his exit. That threat never came to pass under his tenure as co-owner-CEO. Gibson archtops became much better under his tenure as boss. He hired the right people to helm the Custom Shop.

    The new management is a lot more white-knuckled conservative business type despite their affected rebel motorcycle leather jacketed rock n roll vibe. They only want to make what sells. Gibson archtops have finally become a pipe dream. The ES-175 was dropped after 70 years of being in continuous regular production since 1949. We cursed Henry J., we mocked him, we wished Gibson would enter receivership to get Henry J out. Sometimes, we really get what we wished for. No more Gibson archtops for the forseeable future.
    Great Deals with Great Folks: max52 (Guild-Benedetto Artist Award); prickards (Ribbecke GC Halfling); Cincy2 (Comins Concert)

  42. #41
    I'm a big believer of buying a guitar if you connect with it, but at about 3.500 US$ you can connect with a 175, maybe put together 750 more and hopefully connect with an L5.... Lots of options at that price point. So i'd take my time, try stuff out etc..

  43. #42
    hi all how are you doing?! well, it's been months since i've been here, had some health problems but im well now

    you know that night after I played the the gibson via amp - it just sounded a tinge too bright for me. and after i rested on it a bit for a few days, i went back to play it...then i played some other guitars. including an epiphone swingster which had a nicer tone plugged in (to my ears anyway).

    the SF17 was good but i felt for ~5k i shouldn't have ANY doubts about the sound, and the main issue i had was it just sounded like a regular acoustic, amplified (which i know technically that is what archtops are, but it lacked something...character? mellowness? i dont know)..

    to me, for ~5k it has to be near perfect or VERY GOOD plugged in - it didn't do that for me.

    AND SO, i gave up on the purchase and my hunt for an archtop because i was tired of looking. i felt i had the pm2, and as someone said basically, you can develop yourself on any instrument. which is true! but i didn't really feel inclined to play the pm2 - i would get annoyed and frustrated every time i picked it up....so i really didn't practice my balls off like i should have been (but i dont blame the guitar for that!)

    i would go back to the store every now and then, just to check stuff out, and i would see the SF17 on the top wall (still not sold like many other nice expensive guitars at this particular shop months later) sort of 'calling out to me.' but i know, she's not right for me.

    this past weekend i went to the same store after some months, just to play and noodle. i checked out a few guitars, didn't really see anything...then behind one guitar, was a gretsch 2420...never saw it before, blonde, so i went to have a try. the neck was PERFECT on it for me and sounded great unplugged. i've played gretsch guitars before and they are nice but generally not quite the tone or vibe i go for.

    i kept playing playing, and this girl also at the shop was eyeing the guitar -- "how do you get that sound?!" -- me - "well you know, make the eq flat on the amp and roll off the tone..."...she kept eyeing it. i kept playing it... she was a relative beginner in terms of basics, but she could not stop eyeing the guitar! but i kept playing it not wanting to let her have it... "you know...see that wall? theres alot more gretsch guitars LIKE THIS on there!".

    a half hour later, she was still eyeing it! so i said you know what - go ahead here, try it. she loved it...and she was ready to buy. i wasn't sure i was ready to buy, because i wanted to off my pm2-aa first...so i said to the clerk - you know what man, let her have it, i can see she wants it. he confirmed they had a lot more in stock if i wanted one, so i said okay...

    so, i went and started playing a few other guitars...and another half hour later, she says -- "you can have it, i picked something else! (a squier telecaster )...this guitar is MEANT for you." i said "haha, we'll see". so back in my hands she was -- but being the picky f***er i am, i put the guitar back after another half hour and left - if i really want her, ill come back tomorrow. ill check out another 2420 at a different shop, just to see if the QC and action is just as great.

    and so this past tuesday, i went back in the evening after work - to another music shop - and found a wine red 2420 and played it. immediately - nah. the action is okay, but there's buzzing, just doesn't feel 'RIGHT' to me....i have to go get that one at the other shop. so then, i went to the other shop, played it some more - and said ill put this on hold since you guys are closing and pick it up tomorrow.

    so yesterday -- FINALLY and with still some nerves -- i bought the blonde 2420. they had one with a bigsby but this particular guitar just plays so well for me, just feels too good. my ONLY concern now - is the guitar had steel strings on it - i had them put flats on it. my HOPE is the whoever the tech is - doesn't F*** up the action because the flats i suspect are a slightly heavier gauge than the steel strings. the guitar was just so perfect in terms of action and feel, i was scared to change the strings!

    well there you have it - i should be picking it up tomorrow or on the weekend, and we'll see what the tech did. i am hopeful - this guitar has a lot of potential. and the kicker is, it was cheaper than the pm2 and the sf17 (lol) at 599$ CAD.

    so now, im trying to off the PM2-aa to someone who will make use of it and maybe set it up the way they want. ill probably advertise it on the forum.

    there you have it...now the amp...the katana 50?

  44. #43

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    Sometimes it's better to jump on a deal, sometimes it's better to wait. One never knows until after the deal is done. As for an amp, I like the DV Mark models. I have a Little Jazz, and it's a great amp for me. I can get it to sound very close to my AI Clarus/RE Stealth 10 setup, so close that I don't believe I could reliably tell the difference blindfolded. But that might not be the sound you're going for, and I really have no idea what that might be, so I have no amp advice. That's as subjective as the best guitar. All I can suggest is taking the Gretsch to stores and trying amps. There are worse ways to use your time.

  45. #44
    I went for the katana 50. Ive been busy working on my car but ill post a video soon.

    I tried it with my gretsch at the store which they set up well, im happy to say it still sounds great with the flatwounds!

    The katana 50 was fairly cheap as well at 289 cad, and it seems to have enough versatility for what i need. And no crazy menu diving, fairly tactile

  46. #45

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    You might want to consider this MIDI-USB control box for the Katana 50 Primova Sound - MIDX-20 BOSS/Roland compatible USB to MIDI Converter .
    Great Deals with Great Folks: max52 (Guild-Benedetto Artist Award); prickards (Ribbecke GC Halfling); Cincy2 (Comins Concert)

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    [...]
    The new management is a lot more white-knuckled conservative business type despite their affected rebel motorcycle leather jacketed rock n roll vibe. [...]
    Yes.

    I missed this post somehow. I am sure they all call each other “man” often.

    We can hope they somehow struggle through and drop a pair into the boxers (the underwear of choice for the affected gent) in time to make a real go of it.

    The Solid Formed seemed so extremely promising to me as an idea. Imagine a re-thinking of the Lee Ritenour and the Byrdland in a solid formed (despite the horrible name) configuration. Fix the odd F-hole positions, and ship some great sounding archtops with some modern imagination.

    Holding the hilltop is expensive, but so many ventures have found it so good an idea.

    They have had “Epiphone” since most of us dotards were born for the broad market.

    Any plan to make “Gibson” a higher margin Epiphone seems destined to run into the problem of no high-end cache.

    It will be interesting to follow, “man”.