Bill Moll Guitars and Checking

**SandChannel** · 02-15-2019, 03:43 PM

I have always had a bit of a hankering for a Moll 7 string and keep my eyes open for them on various sites - Lark Street has one right now, for example. I am surprised to see how many have checking to their finish even though many aren't that old. I can't believe that there are this many people having problems with climate control. So, does Bill use a different type of finish that leads to earlier than normal checking? If it plays well and sounds great, it doesn't matter. I am just curious if others have noticed or if they know what is up.

**Greentone** · 02-15-2019, 03:52 PM

Some finishes really check. I have noticed that Gibson nitro finishes check like mad on the late-50s-60s thin laminate body archtops.

No matter since they are fantastic playing and sounding guitars. I used to gig like crazy on them and they just didn't like going from cold cars/trailers to warm buildings for the gig and back.

**deacon Mark** · 02-15-2019, 04:08 PM

There are a number of different nitro lacquers to choose from this could account for differences, but not sure. Also the amount the nitro is thinned in application and the number of coats. Another aspect is setting time before final buff. Best practice is to wait a long time before final buffing even 4 weeks. Patience in finishing nitro an incredible quality.

**SandChannel** · 02-15-2019, 08:54 PM

I guess I am surprised to see as much checking on a guitar that is only 10 years or so old. No that checking is a bad thing - It is just character.

**rlrhett** · 02-15-2019, 09:29 PM

IMHO Bill Moll guitars are the gold standard from the 90's and early naughts. Bill made amazing guitars. But that is also a time when the VOC's in many nitro finishes were coming under scrutiny for their health and air quality effects. The big guitar manufacturers were still getting the old stuff or moving to UV cured stuff. That left us little guys working with formulations that seemed to change without warning as the companies making finishing products were experimenting with ways to bring the VOC's down.

I've not seen any discussion of excessive checking on luthier boards for guitars specifically of that vintage. But I have a couple I made that are seriously crazed, sitting next to another one from a year later that seem fine. My totally unscientific analysis is that I had a bad formulation that changed. I also moved to water based lacquer about then (or french polish), so I don't know if things got better.

Of course it doesn't affect the sound or playability. On the right guitar it can even be a cosmetic enhancement. Still, I understand completely why it would be a big turn off for a guitar that can cost in the +$8K range.

**SandChannel** · 02-15-2019, 10:42 PM

Thanks for chiming in. It makes a lot of sense what you mentioned about being caught out when Nitro finishes fell under scrutiny. It is possible that some of the ones that I have been seeing are from the years when things were a bit in flux. You never know - I might score a nice deal because of the checking.

**Jabberwocky** · 02-16-2019, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by SandChannel

...You never know - I might score a nice deal because of the checking.

With Buzzy? He is an old hand; you have your work cut out.

**TheGrandWazoo** · 02-16-2019, 10:54 AM

I had a Moll 7 string model-D(?) built 1997(?). The only finish checking/chipping was along the purfling/binding on the front and back of the body.

**SandChannel** · 02-16-2019, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

With Buzzy? He is an old hand; you have your work cut out.

Ha. I just meant in general - not with Buzzy in particular!

**GNAPPI** · 02-16-2019, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by SandChannel

>>SNIP<< You never know - I might score a nice deal because of the checking.

You wouldn't with me :-)

It's like bitching that undercoating on a car is flaking. Sheesh.

**SandChannel** · 02-16-2019, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

You wouldn't with me :-)

It's like bitching that undercoating on a car is flaking. Sheesh.

I could understand that if we were talking about the undercoat of a vintage '55 Chevy, because old stuff is, well, old. In this case, we are talking about a 10 year old Ferrari and I think there might be a discussion as to why the undercoat looks flakey.

Like I mentioned, not every Moll that I have seen has checking, but quite a few do. Since I have a hard time believing that a lot of people would buy an expensive instrument and not do their best to ensure its protection, it has led me to thinking that there was some specific issue with the nitro application or the nitro "ingredients" during the early 2000s. That's why I was asking if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

**GNAPPI** · 02-16-2019, 11:30 PM

IMO, if the price on a git is consistent with the condition, and the price is already fair there's likely little wiggle room anyway.

As far as this one goes, I'm SURE you realize that thousands of Gibson's (and other makes) made the same year have checking, others not... why? Because they all experienced different handling, temperatures etc. no?

**SandChannel** · 02-17-2019, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

IMO, if the price on a git is consistent with the condition, and the price is already fair there's likely little wiggle room anyway.

As far as this one goes, I'm SURE you realize that thousands of Gibson's (and other makes) made the same year have checking, others not... why? Because they all experienced different handling, temperatures etc. no?

Are you a luthier? I am curious about your experience with nitro application used in the early 2000s. I would be curious if you noticed anything odd about the VOC as mentioned by rlrhett.

**GNAPPI** · 02-17-2019, 08:58 PM

I am not a luthier and do not need to be, and I would say that anyone who has spent time with or owning a number of gits would know the events leading up to finish checking but clearly I am wrong.

**GNAPPI** · 02-17-2019, 09:06 PM

Since you said..."I might score a nice deal because of the checking"

Is where your irrelevancy on finish composition and my qualifications come in. You are a ninny buyer looking to score a great buy on a git. End of story.