What strings did Charlie Christian use?

[Doug B]

What strings did Charlie Christian use? Flat wound or round wound. I seem to remember hearing that flat wounds only came in around 1955? (Maybe)

[neatomic]

the first gibson "charlie christian pickup" was designed for a wound b!!! so that is an indication of the thickness of the strings he used!!

cc with guitarist teddy bunn and bassist slam stewart (2 greats) at some early gibson promo



chances are the strings were 80/20 bronze (d'angelico's preferred) or steel....the original flats were smoothed rounds...similar to todays groundwounds...flat ribbon tech happened a bit later

cheers

[MarkRhodes]

A wound B? Never even thought about that. Wonder what it would be like. As a kid, I played unwound Gs but once I tried wound ones, I never looked back. But a wound B? There may be a good reason it went out of style.

[neatomic]

well, in the olden pre electric days. it was thought, the heavier the string the greater the projection..so a wound B could be beneficial...(also probably the technical string making limitations at that time)...but once pickups entered the scene, then things changed..the very first cc pups were made with the old acoustic style mindset...the next generation of cc pickups had a notch under the b string to allow for unwound use..the unwound/plain b was born



cheers

[archtopeddy]

Roundwound monel strings as I recall Johnathan Stout and others noting...

[neatomic]

monels and pure nickels were in there...gibson mona-steel (monels) were classic 50's-60's gibson strings

when rotosound started in early 60's in the uk..they used monel!!

cheers

[wintermoon]

the first gibson "charlie christian pickup" was designed for a wound b!!! so that is an indication of the thickness of the strings he used!!

cc with guitarist teddy bunn and bassist slam stewart (2 greats) at some early gibson promo



chances are the strings were 80/20 bronze (d'angelico's preferred) or steel....the original flats were smoothed rounds...similar to todays groundwounds...flat ribbon tech happened a bit later

cheers

Side note, that's Christian @ the NY music trade show Gibson booth in late '39 playing the newly introduced ES-250 (complete w tags hanging from knobs and headstock) and Teddy the newly introduced Super 400PN, (new L-5PN on stand) super rare instruments along w the uber rare EH-275 flame maple cab amp (basically an upgraded EH-185 amp) and as neatomic said, the great Slam Stewart on new Gibson bass.

[Doug B]

the first gibson "charlie christian pickup" was designed for a wound b!!! so that is an indication of the thickness of the strings he used!!

cheers

Karumba! A wound B sounds like cables for a suspension bridge!

Cheers

[Litterick]

Gibson's 1937 Catalog, which introduced the ES-150, includes lists of Gibson strings (page 67). For Electric Spanish guitars it recommends, "Use Regular 240 Set of Guitar." Set 240 is described in the Mona-Steel list as a "Set of Guitar, Plain Second".

[ruger9]

Johnathan Stout is our local CC expert. Read this: (BTW they were likely rounds):

Guitar String Composition and Swing Guitar — Jonathan Stout and his Campus Five featuring Hilary Alexander

Another good read:

String history – what did guitar players use in the pre-war era? – Online Audio Services by Tinderwet Studios

[sgosnell]

Some people use that photo to claim that CC played with his thumb. That clearly is not his guitar, with tags hanging all over it, and he probably didn't have a pick handy, he was just trying the guitar for a publicity photo. I wouldn't buy anything in that photo as real, other than that they were there.

[SandChannel]

Jonathan Stout probably knows about Charlie's gear than Charlie. He says Mona-Steel so there you go.

Flats became much more common once archtops were designed with pickups in mind rather than when they were designed for overall acoustic projection in a swing band setting.

[mr. beaumont]

Stout knows his stuff.

Monels on a single coil equipped archtop...mmmmmm.

[archtopeddy]

Gibson's 1937 Catalog, which introduced the ES-150, includes lists of Gibson strings (page 67). For Electric Spanish guitars it recommends, "Use Regular 240 Set of Guitar." Set 240 is described in the Mona-Steel list as a "Set of Guitar, Plain Second".

Great info Litterick! And -- as an aside -- thanks for sharing the 1937 Gibson Catalog. Wow!! I'd love to have one of each guitar in there -- even the banjos!

[campusfive]

Gibson's 1937 Catalog, which introduced the ES-150, includes lists of Gibson strings (page 67). For Electric Spanish guitars it recommends, "Use Regular 240 Set of Guitar." Set 240 is described in the Mona-Steel list as a "Set of Guitar, Plain Second".

Thanks for everyone suggesting that I might actually know something about the subject, ha!

But yeah, this notation from the Gibson catalog is the big indication.
At that point, Gibson had been putting their proprietary Mona-Steel strings (which were monel) on all of their guitars, but had just recently added bronze strings to the line up, and so they started putting them on their full-size, pro-level archtops (L-7 and above). Based on all the literature I've seen, I don't believe there were any mainstream options other than monel or bronze in common usage. That Gibson is specifically saying to use monel for electric guitar is pretty telling.

Now, in the Charlie Christian biography, it indicates that he had a preference for "Black Diamond" strings, but they also made monel, and there's no indication they made anything other than monel and bronze in this era. So, it's a pretty safe assumption that even if he were using a different brand, that they were still monel strings.

The final thing to think about, is that when Gibson introduced the electric (spanish) guitar, they didn't ALSO introduce some kind of special string - they had to use what they had on hand, which would've been monel. There are no notations in any catalog about electric-specific string until at least 1940, but those were only monel strings with specific gauges for better electric balance. It isn't until the mid-1940's that there is any mention of electric-specific strings with any difference in the metal - given that Charlie's final recording session is mid-1941, and he's dead by 1942 - I think it's a pretty safe to draw the conclusion that he used monel strings.

As to flat vs. round - there is no mention of flatwound string in any 1930's or 1940's catalog. And based on a conversation I had with the late Bob Bain, he indicated that flats came in during the early/mid 1950's. There were indications in the catalogs about "polished" or "hand polished" strings. Unpacking that a bit, I believe these were not some kind of "ground-wound" (like chromes) or "half-flat" strings, but rather strings that were essentially sanded to remove burrs and surface imperfections. One company sold "sepam cloth" so you could "polish" your own strings - but that something akin to an emory board, and let's face it, you're not going to remove that much metal using an emory board. Similarly, gut string bass players often will sand off parts that start to fray to keep the strings in tact.

Actually, it now occurs to me - given how much less frequently they must've changed strings back then, owing to scarcity - I'll bet they also used those sepam cloths to remove build up on the strings from playing and to extend their useful life.

[gmek]

surprisingly interesting thread! cool stuff

[campusfive]

Hey all, take a look at this post from 2013:
Midnight Blue---Kenny Burrell

Forum member "Eddie Lang" shows an old set of Mapes strings with the sepam cloth. (Which just reminded me Sepam is just Mapes spelled backwards, lol).

So, take a look, and ask yourself, "is there anyway that little cloth is going to shave enough material to resemble anything like a flat wound string?" Clearly not.

And due respect to my (in real life) friend Mark Cally, who's post is directly above the one I'm referencing, while LaBella may claim to have introduced flatwounds as early as 1940, I don't believe there is evidence to show widespread adoption that early on.

If anyone has some evidence of early flatwound usage, I'd love to see it.

[Doug B]

Thanks for the info Jonathan, I would agree with all you said. Just one thing:

What the heck is MONEL? Is it plain? Wound? More like acoustic guitar strings?

Thanks

Doug

Thanks for everyone suggesting that I might actually know something about the subject, ha!

But yeah, this notation from the Gibson catalog is the big indication.
At that point, Gibson had been putting their proprietary Mona-Steel strings (which were monel) on all of their guitars, but had just recently added bronze strings to the line up, and so they started putting them on their full-size, pro-level archtops (L-7 and above). Based on all the literature I've seen, I don't believe there were any mainstream options other than monel or bronze in common usage. That Gibson is specifically saying to use monel for electric guitar is pretty telling.

Now, in the Charlie Christian biography, it indicates that he had a preference for "Black Diamond" strings, but they also made monel, and there's no indication they made anything other than monel and bronze in this era. So, it's a pretty safe assumption that even if he were using a different brand, that they were still monel strings.

The final thing to think about, is that when Gibson introduced the electric (spanish) guitar, they didn't ALSO introduce some kind of special string - they had to use what they had on hand, which would've been monel. There are no notations in any catalog about electric-specific string until at least 1940, but those were only monel strings with specific gauges for better electric balance. It isn't until the mid-1940's that there is any mention of electric-specific strings with any difference in the metal - given that Charlie's final recording session is mid-1941, and he's dead by 1942 - I think it's a pretty safe to draw the conclusion that he used monel strings.

As to flat vs. round - there is no mention of flatwound string in any 1930's or 1940's catalog. And based on a conversation I had with the late Bob Bain, he indicated that flats came in during the early/mid 1950's. There were indications in the catalogs about "polished" or "hand polished" strings. Unpacking that a bit, I believe these were not some kind of "ground-wound" (like chromes) or "half-flat" strings, but rather strings that were essentially sanded to remove burrs and surface imperfections. One company sold "sepam cloth" so you could "polish" your own strings - but that something akin to an emory board, and let's face it, you're not going to remove that much metal using an emory board. Similarly, gut string bass players often will sand off parts that start to fray to keep the strings in tact.

Actually, it now occurs to me - given how much less frequently they must've changed strings back then, owing to scarcity - I'll bet they also used those sepam cloths to remove build up on the strings from playing and to extend their useful life.

[wintermoon]

Some people use that photo to claim that CC played with his thumb. That clearly is not his guitar, with tags hanging all over it, and he probably didn't have a pick handy, he was just trying the guitar for a publicity photo. I wouldn't buy anything in that photo as real, other than that they were there.

I'm going to differ there, I believe it's all 'real'
It's not a posed publicity photo, you can see he's plugged into the amp head on a table behind him.
If it was staged I don't think Christian would be looking down at his guitar. He very well may have been using his thumb that day.
I doubt that they owned those instruments that day as they're obviously demos, but soon after Christian owned a sunburst 250 before getting a blonde one later and Bunn owned a Super 400PN, so maybe they were given the instruments after the show.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Thanks for the info Jonathan, I would agree with all you said. Just one thing:

What the heck is MONEL? Is it plain? Wound? More like acoustic guitar strings?

Thanks

Doug

Monel is a nickel alloy : Monel - Wikipedia

It can be used in guitars strings, either round wound of flat. For example:

C. F. Martin Acoustic Guitar Tony Rice Martin Monel, .013 - .056, MTR13





Warning: RotoSound changed these strings and they are no longer monel.

[christianm77]

Ernie Ball super slinkies obviously

[sgosnell]

There is no way to tell exactly what was going on there. Playing very much with 4 tags hanging from the guitar would be a little difficult, perhaps. I can't really tell whether the guitar is plugged into anything. But it's certainly possible that it was, and that he played a few notes or chords. But I doubt that he played very much with his thumb. Impossible to say anything for sure, though.

[Doug B]

Thanks BDLH, I learned something new today!

Doug

[christianm77]

Btw Charlie christian, teddy bunn and slam Stewart? Oh man, that would have been something to hear.....

[Greentone]

I always thought that flats came in during the 50s. The older guitarists I've read about would use pencil graphite and candle wax to rub into the grooves of their round wound strings to make them quieter for studio work way back when. (This did wonders for intonation, I'm sure.)