The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I continue to enjoy playing with this cheap Monoprice 15 Watt tube amp. This evening I thought I'd try out using the effects send for direct recording. So this clip is 3 choruses of "How About You," the Head, then 2 boppish choruses of Jimmy Raney from Aebersold Vol. 20. I alternate between the mic'd and the direct line about every 10-15 seconds. I have tried to equalize the loudness of each track, but no other changes.

    You can spot the direct line recording clips because the red cable running from the amp to my PreSonus AudioBox iTwo is coiled on top of the amp when I'm doing the direct clips.

    Honestly, I can hear a slight difference, but not enough to make me think one or the other is definitely the preferred way to record with this amp. I am inclined to be biased toward mic'ing the cab, but seriously, the direct line from the effects send seems to me to be just fine for hobby-level recording.

    I also continue to enjoy this amp. No illusions, it is what it is, a $200 tube amp, but it has responded well to my TLC and tweaking and I'm having a ton of fun with it. Kind of like a girl you enjoy dating but likely wouldn't marry...


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  3. #2

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    It's as if the "invisible man" is switching between direct and mic - such a seamless edit!
    To me the direct sounds a tad clearer but not by much - both approaches are definitely useable. Nice playing, too - Thanks!

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO
    It's as if the "invisible man" is switching between direct and mic - such a seamless edit!
    To me the direct sounds a tad clearer but not by much - both approaches are definitely useable. Nice playing, too - Thanks!
    I have a pretty good workflow figured out for doing this kind of clip. It needs a backing track for synch, a more or less memorized piece of music, and my video editing software is Screenflow. Not "easy" but not especially difficult. I enjoy side-by-side comparisons, so it's natural to share with the forum.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I enjoy side-by-side comparisons, so it's natural to share with the forum.
    ...and very welcome, too.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    so it's natural to share with the forum.
    They are very helpful, thanks a million for doing and sharing them.

  7. #6

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    The direct recording seems hotter, even though the levels are more or less normalized. A slightly lower level on the recording might sound better, or not, that's purely preference. Microphone placement also makes a difference, and you might not have the optimal placement, can't tell from one clip. But that's all just nit-picking. The recordings and playing are good, and which is better depends on taste. For my taste, the direct seems slightly better, but my preference of seasonings isn't everyone's. And on a different day, I might prefer the speaker/mic.

  8. #7

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    Get yourself an impulse response (IR) plug-in (I use Space Designer inside of Logic) and some IRs and you can effectively run that direct signal through a variety of speakers/cabs.

  9. #8

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    Go on...marry that girl.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler
    Go on...marry that girl.
    Keep it as the side-chick! ;-)



    (I am all for monogamy, just not when it comes to guitars and amps....)

  11. #10

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    Tonally speaking I prefer the direct. However musically speaking (which matters most to me), I prefer the mic. I think because the mix seems so much better to me. The level of the direct guitar seems too loud compared to the backing track, at least on my end.
    So the point is I guess that everything matters to some degree.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I continue to enjoy playing with this cheap Monoprice 15 Watt tube amp. This evening I thought I'd try out using the effects send for direct recording. So this clip is 3 choruses of "How About You," the Head, then 2 boppish choruses of Jimmy Raney from Aebersold Vol. 20. I alternate between the mic'd and the direct line about every 10-15 seconds. I have tried to equalize the loudness of each track, but no other changes.

    You can spot the direct line recording clips because the red cable running from the amp to my PreSonus AudioBox iTwo is coiled on top of the amp when I'm doing the direct clips.

    Honestly, I can hear a slight difference, but not enough to make me think one or the other is definitely the preferred way to record with this amp. I am inclined to be biased toward mic'ing the cab, but seriously, the direct line from the effects send seems to me to be just fine for hobby-level recording.

    I also continue to enjoy this amp. No illusions, it is what it is, a $200 tube amp, but it has responded well to my TLC and tweaking and I'm having a ton of fun with it. Kind of like a girl you enjoy dating but likely wouldn't marry...

    I thought the two sounded pretty different -- the direct sound was brighter and less compressed, which is pretty much exactly what I would expect with the power section and speaker taken out of the signal chain. I prefer the sound of the complete amp. I find that for direct recording it's important to have some sort of speaker emulation.

    John

  13. #12

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    The direct was bright but still great sound out that 175 Lawson. I could tell easy and preferred the mic version not so hot and bright. Nice playing too.

  14. #13

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    I'm still getting adjusted to how tube amps, or at least this tube amp, sounds and how it responds. I get a little break up on the chord passages, but clean on the single-note; a little bright in the treble but not harsh... it's a different kind of thing playing through this amp. I know that there is a lot of difference between this amp and a really nice one, but already I do see how playing this amp is different. I keep the guitar volume closer to 5 or 6 but with the Polytone or DVMark I keep the volume on about 8-9, and there isn't much difference as I turn up or down from the guitar with the latter two, but on the tube amp I hear a significant difference in tone as I turn the guitar up and down. It's fun hunting for different "spots" in the spectrum of the amp.

    Or maybe I'm just deluded!

  15. #14

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    I preferred the sound of the mic-ed amp as well, but I’m sure that with some eq-ing, the direct sound could be made to sound pretty similar. But one if the most important factors you already mention: the feel, response and behavior of a real amp is just as important!

  16. #15

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    Hey Lawson - sounds good man! Have you pushed the amp to higher volumes? If so, how do you think it would compete with bass and drums on a gig or rehearsal? I haven’t had a tube amp in years because of the lower weight and convenience of solid state but this little thing is tempting. However if it were just a living room amp then I’d probably pass, at least for now. If I can put it to work, though, then I would probably get one. (Edit: I should have clarified, volume while still relatively clean. I don’t mind a very small amount of breakup when digging into chords - that’s a pleasing old school sound. But if everything is broken up when playing at gig volumes then it wouldn’t be usable for my purposes)


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  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by rio
    Hey Lawson - sounds good man! Have you pushed the amp to higher volumes? If so, how do you think it would compete with bass and drums on a gig or rehearsal? I haven’t had a tube amp in years because of the lower weight and convenience of solid state but this little thing is tempting. However if it were just a living room amp then I’d probably pass, at least for now. If I can put it to work, though, then I would probably get one. (Edit: I should have clarified, volume while still relatively clean. I don’t mind a very small amount of breakup when digging into chords - that’s a pleasing old school sound. But if everything is broken up when playing at gig volumes then it wouldn’t be usable for my purposes)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    That's a hard question to answer. First of all, I've put 5751's in place of 12AX7s V1 and V2, which gives a little more clean and (I think) a somewhat sweeter tone. If I put the Gain on about 2-3, amp EQ about 5, give or take, and my guitar volume at 5 or 6, I can turn the amp volume up past 7 or 8 without much break up on single note lines, but it does break up on chordal punches. It sounds pretty loud, way too loud for the room I practice in, but I haven't played the amp with an ensemble or on a gig, so i just can't tell you how it performs under those circumstances. It isn't set up to emulate a Fender sound, it is more like a British amp, I'm thinking. Power tubes are EL84/7189. What I'm actually running in it are a matched pair of NOS Russian 6P14P and I actually like the sound a lot. But I'm not the most experienced hot-bottle player in the neighborhood so my opinions are worth about what you paid for them!

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by rio
    Hey Lawson - sounds good man! Have you pushed the amp to higher volumes? If so, how do you think it would compete with bass and drums on a gig or rehearsal? I haven’t had a tube amp in years because of the lower weight and convenience of solid state but this little thing is tempting. However if it were just a living room amp then I’d probably pass, at least for now. If I can put it to work, though, then I would probably get one. (Edit: I should have clarified, volume while still relatively clean. I don’t mind a very small amount of breakup when digging into chords - that’s a pleasing old school sound. But if everything is broken up when playing at gig volumes then it wouldn’t be usable for my purposes)


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    So I thought I'd try to do a clip at higher volumes. The clip opens showing where the controls on the amp and the guitar were placed, and I've played a Jimmy Raney blues solo that has some chord punches in it. I turned it up until it was pretty much either breaking up or about to break up the whole time. Also dug in on my picking in places just to see what happens. I had to turn the input gain on my mic way down to keep the AD Converter from clipping.



    And since you, Rio, my friend, like the L5ces, here's the same solo done on my L5ces, same settings. Maybe the guitar volume a little lower actually, but no change on the amp.

    Last edited by lawson-stone; 02-16-2019 at 06:49 PM.

  19. #18

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    Great sound, even with the break-up. It sounds very much like a pushed tweed-era Fender to my ear.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    So I thought I'd try to do a clip at higher volumes. The clip opens showing where the controls on the amp and the guitar were placed, and I've played a Jimmy Raney blues solo that has some chord punches in it. I turned it up until it was pretty much either breaking up or about to break up the whole time. Also dug in on my picking in places just to see what happens. I had to turn the input gain on my mic way down to keep the AD Converter from clipping.



    And since you, Rio, my friend, like the L5ces, here's the same solo done on my L5ces, same settings. Maybe the guitar volume a little lower actually, but no change on the amp.

    Wow, thank you so much Lawson, that is extremely helpful. After hearing the L5 through it I think that is a totally acceptable amount of breakup and it really sounds awesome. Ive been thinking of putting some of my tax refund into something guitar related despite really simplifying and selling a lot of stuff...this is very tempting.

    edit: I just ordered one. I’ve been doing some recording for a bass player friend lately so if anything I can use it for that - I’ll be very curious to see how much volume I can get out of it. Will try the stock tubes for now - last tube amp I had was a Twin like 15 years ago so I don’t remember anything about tubes but I’ll keep the ones you chose in mind if I swap them. How did you arrive at choosing those as replacements by the way?

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    Last edited by rio; 02-17-2019 at 01:17 PM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by rio
    Wow, thank you so much Lawson, that is extremely helpful. After hearing the L5 through it I think that is a totally acceptable amount of breakup and it really sounds awesome. Ive been thinking of putting some of my tax refund into something guitar related despite really simplifying and selling a lot of stuff...this is very tempting.

    edit: I just ordered one. I’ve been doing some recording for a bass player friend lately so if anything I can use it for that - I’ll be very curious to see how much volume I can get out of it. Will try the stock tubes for now - last tube amp I had was a Twin like 15 years ago so I don’t remember anything about tubes but I’ll keep the ones you chose in mind if I swap them. How did you arrive at choosing those as replacements by the way?

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    I can tell you that replacing the V1 and V2 12AX7 tubes with 5751's is a great move for this amp. I used Tube Amp Doctor tubes ordered from StewMac. I also found some NOS EL84 subs for the power tubes (Russian 6P14P), but the original tubes actually sounded quite good to my ear. The 5751's will give a nice increase in clean headroom and I think the tone sweetens a bit with them.

    This isn't a Princeton Reverb, you know? It's a Chinese made PCB $200 amp... but I've gotten more than my fair share of pleasure from it.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I can tell you that replacing the V1 and V2 12AX7 tubes with 5751's is a great move for this amp. I used Tube Amp Doctor tubes ordered from StewMac. I also found some NOS EL84 subs for the power tubes (Russian 6P14P), but the original tubes actually sounded quite good to my ear. The 5751's will give a nice increase in clean headroom and I think the tone sweetens a bit with them.

    This isn't a Princeton Reverb, you know? It's a Chinese made PCB $200 amp... but I've gotten more than my fair share of pleasure from it.
    I’m pretty psyched to try it. I am so out of the tube loop considering how long it’s been (I think I used Sovtek back in the late 90s) so I just ordered some JJ 5751s since they were on amazon and I could return them that way if they’re stinkers. I was at an organist buddies last night for a jam and it’s been a while so I forget how loud it can get with a B3 and drums. Gigs aren’t typically that loud but I’ll be curious to see if that amp can hang in that context. I think even if I just use it for quieter stuff and recording then I’ll be happy but I’m very curious to see how it will perform.


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  23. #22

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    Hey Lawson, I have one more question if you don’t mind. I was doing some reading to catch up on tube amp terminology and so on and am wondering why you choose to replace the V1 and V2 tubes but not V3. I ordered 3 5751 tubes figuring if I do the same as you I can keep the third as a spare but wasn’t sure if it’s worth it to swap out the V3 as well. From what I’m reading it seems that V3 doesn’t have an affect on the tone on some amps?


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  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by rio
    Hey Lawson, I have one more question if you don’t mind. I was doing some reading to catch up on tube amp terminology and so on and am wondering why you choose to replace the V1 and V2 tubes but not V3. I ordered 3 5751 tubes figuring if I do the same as you I can keep the third as a spare but wasn’t sure if it’s worth it to swap out the V3 as well. From what I’m reading it seems that V3 doesn’t have an affect on the tone on some amps?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    V3 is the phase inverter and lots of folks do replace that but with a 12AT7. V1 and V2 are the actual pre-amp stages. YOu also have 2 EL84’s in the power amp. I”d suggest doing nothing with those and just see if you like them. I was pretty happy but got the Tube Rolling Disease and wanted to try some others. NOt sure it was worth it, but replacing V1-2 with 5751’s was a great move (for me anyhow). I can’t wait to hear your reactions. We can be a Study Group of 2!

    Also, the numbering starts on the RIGHT as you look at the back of the amp. V1 is on the far right.


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  25. #24

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    I've done a fair share of tube rolling, but in a lazy non-tech sort of way.
    But I will say that IMO the V1 position is the biggest tone changer, and that a good old NOS 5751 in V1 is just great in so many amps.
    If you are messing around beyond that, might as well look at some upgraded power tubes as well just for kicks.

    JJ's, Tung-sols, Tads, NOS, . . . it's all fun, but it's a deep rabbit hole for sure

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    V3 is the phase inverter and lots of folks do replace that but with a 12AT7. V1 and V2 are the actual pre-amp stages. YOu also have 2 EL84’s in the power amp. I”d suggest doing nothing with those and just see if you like them. I was pretty happy but got the Tube Rolling Disease and wanted to try some others. NOt sure it was worth it, but replacing V1-2 with 5751’s was a great move (for me anyhow). I can’t wait to hear your reactions. We can be a Study Group of 2!

    Also, the numbering starts on the RIGHT as you look at the back of the amp. V1 is on the far right.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ah ok - that’s for the heads up regarding v1 being on the right! It’s supposed to arrive tomorrow if the incoming snow doesn’t stop UPS (crossing my fingers) so I will certainly check in about it. I won’t be able to really push it to check the volume until I’m at work on Thursday unless my neighbors are out but I’m still really excited to try it.


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