Polytone with celestion speaker or not?

[Alex531]

Hello fellow guitarists,
I found a used polytone from around the 80s- beginning of the 90 from a local guitarist. The guy said that it has a celestion speaker in it which makes for a better sound and it also has a new reverb tank accutronics. He also said that these changes are required for the amp to sound better and to be more reliable and easy to use. What are your thoughts on these? Is the celestion as good as the original? The guy is asking around 300-350 euros. Is it worth it? I play an ES-175 btw.
Thanks

[medblues]

It would not hurt trying if a trial and return is allowed. A couple points: The original speakers in the old Polytones was 3 or 4 ohms in impedance so if an 8 ohm Celestion was installed, the amp may be less loud than its maximum, most people would not care about this (especially if the speaker has higher sensitivity than original). The accutronics tank would be an improvement over the old tank especially if the connections were bolstered. The character of the speaker is more important than anything if you are seeking the classic polytone sound. If you are just interested in an acceptable jazz sound, you should be able to get it with little effort.

[jorgemg1984]

To me, the original speakers are an integral part of the Polytone's sound. I wouldn't go for it.

[GNAPPI]

Celestion does make 12" and 15" speakers in 4 ohm impedance, so it's quite possible the replacement speaker is correct for the amp. Regarding sound, no replacement parts were "required" to make a Polytone sound better, they were fine as they were.

If you can demo it or have a right to return, I see no reason to not buy it.

[Stringswinger]

To me, the original speaker are an integral part of the Polytone's sound. I wouldn't go for it.

Exactly. The Polytone speaker was a special design and are no longer made. Speakers wear out, so eventually there will be no more "original" Polytones left. IMO, there are better choices than Polytone today.

[lawson-stone]

Exactly. The Polytone speaker was a special design and are no longer made. Speakers wear out, so eventually there will be no more "original" Polytones left. IMO, there are better choices than Polytone today.

Suggestions? Ive not been happy with the 8" options I've chosen. Some end up rattling as if they were blown.

[Stringswinger]

Suggestions? Ive not been happy with the 8" options I've chosen. Some end up rattling as if they were blown.

My friends Bruce Forman and Doug Martin are both using (and singing the praise of) the new Henriksen BLU (a 6.5 inch speaker) and those guys are some of the best jazz guitarists on the planet. I am thinking I may need to get one. Their endorsement is golden to me (they are both L-5 players, BTW)

I have (and have owned and used for many years) a Reazer's Edge NY-8ER cabinet. It sounds great with any of the three heads that I use with it. I have a 2008 Polytone Mini-Brain, a Henriksen Jazz Amp head and an Series 3 Acoustic Image Clarus. The RE cabinet with any of those heads sounds as good or better than any Polytone combo (I have owned 6 of them over the years) that I have ever owned. I sold my last Polytone combo when the speaker blew. No replacement speaker or recone kit was available. I used a 4 ohm Eminence replacement speaker and the tone was NOT the same. I sold the combo and am not looking back.

[deacon Mark]

I use Raezors Edge Twin 8 s they are great with Clarus R2 but the endorsement of Bruce Forman would keeps me away grom the poly and get a Bud. At this point old polytones can deliver but lots of great options now for similar money.

[vintagelove]

Well, it would depend on what celestion.

[jorgemg1984]

The only amp I found it could sound better than an old Polytone is the Mambo, especially the 8.

[jazzmus]

If its in fine condition try it out, there plenty speaker options to choose from iif you feel like experimenting and its my personnal-ears opinion that the “core” polytone Sound isnt un-obtainable today.

Lawson, Stringswinger - which speakers did you test/try out?

i recently swung by someone who has the Blu and new gen 110, i presviously owned a older 110 and thought it was mehhh, the new 110 sounds improved/quite good, the Blu sounded really good, wonderfull but i i think becuase it somehow, dare i say it... sounded and responded a little like polytone, a little boxy and super punchy, charming, not as “dry/crispy” tho and my ears prefer polytone (even without the original speaker mojo) .
I wouldnt mind owning a Mambo or Blu.

[lawson-stone]

My experience has been with the 8" speaker options. The Faital rattled after a while; might be a cabinet mis-match? I don't know. But eventually I found, used, on eBay, an Eminence 8" 7345 4ohm G2 300 watt speaker, which is in my "Little Red Polytone" that has the open back. It sounds great. I have a closed-back baby brute, and it has the OEM speaker, 838 67-8710 made by Eminence, the same speaker that is in my other open-back Baby Brute. I honestly can't hear a difference between the 7345 and the OEM speakers. I imagine they are very close in specs. All are 4 ohm speakers, and the speaker resistance, I'm told, is a critical feature of the Polytone sound.

[Herbie]

L

My experience has been with the 8" speaker options. The Faital rattled after a while; might be a cabinet mis-match? I don't know. But eventually I found, used, on eBay, an Eminence 8" 7345 4ohm G2 300 watt speaker, which is in my "Little Red Polytone" that has the open back. It sounds great. I have a closed-back baby brute, and it has the OEM speaker, 838 67-8710 made by Eminence, the same speaker that is in my other open-back Baby Brute. I honestly can't hear a difference between the 7345 and the OEM speakers. I imagine they are very close in specs. All are 4 ohm speakers, and the speaker resistance, I'm told, is a critical feature of the Polytone sound.

Good to hear the code for an about similar speaker to the Polytone originals.

But how would the resistance of a speaker be critical for a sound of an amp? With a 4 ohm speaker the amp will get a bit louder than with a 8 ohm speaker, but normally (?) we do not play volume in 10 where the difference in volume (not in sound quality) would be audible.

[lawson-stone]

L

Good to hear the code for an about similar speaker to the Polytone originals.

But how would the resistance of a speaker be critical for a sound of an amp? With a 4 ohm speaker the amp will get a bit louder than with a 8 ohm speaker, but normally (?) we do not play volume in 10 where the difference in volume (not in sound quality) would be audible.

I actually can't answer the question, but one of our Polytone experts on this forum has commented that the peculiar interaction between the amp's circuitry and the 4 ohm (sometimes 3 ohm) speaker creates the signature Polytone sound. I'm just passing along what I heard.

[Herbie]

I actually can't answer the question, but one of our Polytone experts on this forum has commented that the peculiar interaction between the amp's circuitry and the 4 ohm (sometimes 3 ohm) speaker creates the signature Polytone sound. I'm just passing along what I heard.

I am neither any kind of an expert so I can’t argue but only ask and wonder things.

And having very authentic Polytone experiences with an 8 ohm Eminence Beta 12A in my late 102 I am still convinced that other attributes (magnet, cone etc) do make a bigger difference on the sound than the ohm number itself.

[r_cc_c]

My experience has been with the 8" speaker options. The Faital rattled after a while; might be a cabinet mis-match? I don't know. But eventually I found, used, on eBay, an Eminence 8" 7345 4ohm G2 300 watt speaker, which is in my "Little Red Polytone" that has the open back. It sounds great. I have a closed-back baby brute, and it has the OEM speaker, 838 67-8710 made by Eminence, the same speaker that is in my other open-back Baby Brute. I honestly can't hear a difference between the 7345 and the OEM speakers. I imagine they are very close in specs. All are 4 ohm speakers, and the speaker resistance, I'm told, is a critical feature of the Polytone sound.

I had a mega brute (8") for a while. It came with an Eminence Legend 875 (4 ohm) which I believe is the original speaker. It has that polytone sound. From casual web search, looks like the 875 is not available new.

During the time I had the mega-brute, I had tried replacing the speaker with a Eminence Alpha 8 which sound very similar to the 875. Alpha 8 is 8 ohm.

[Boneyt]

I have an 80s Minibrute but I bought a Henriksen Blu last year for portability and to use with a Godin Nylon. It sounds good with the Godin, (with the horn switched on), but it sounds amazing with my archtops – I haven't touched the Polytone since I got it, highly recommended.

My friends Bruce Forman and Doug Martin are both using (and singing the praise of) the new Henriksen BLU (a 6.5 inch speaker) and those guys are some of the best jazz guitarists on the planet. I am thinking I may need to get one. Their endorsement is golden to me (they are both L-5 players, BTW)

I have (and have owned and used for many years) a Reazer's Edge NY-8ER cabinet. It sounds great with any of the three heads that I use with it. I have a 2008 Polytone Mini-Brain, a Henriksen Jazz Amp head and an Series 3 Acoustic Image Clarus. The RE cabinet with any of those heads sounds as good or better than any Polytone combo (I have owned 6 of them over the years) that I have ever owned. I sold my last Polytone combo when the speaker blew. No replacement speaker or recone kit was available. I used a 4 ohm Eminence replacement speaker and the tone was NOT the same. I sold the combo and am not looking back.

[jazzmus]

Thanks guys, Lawson, Herbie etc. for chiming in with speaker rep. experiences.
Im still curious which speaker Stringswinger used, oh well.

Ill add too the Polytone demystifying.

I have a late 78´s MB, 15" eminence Legend 8 ohm replacement speaker (bought as is).
A recently aquired oddity of Taurus, 12" OEM Polytone speaker.
A diy amp/cabinet (sized as the Mega brute, 180W class D power amp, a eminence Beta (A, it used to have a pre amp built accordingly to a Polytone schematic but currently its just powered cab with a "pre in" and "ext. speaker" from the power amp

All three sound like Polytones despite the different configurations, ive had the original preamp preamps connected to my diy cab and vice versa my diy preamps (including the Brute eq pedal) hooked up to both the original Brutes, also the class D to power the 15".
Now of cause they, speaker size, ohm, watt etc. kept in mind dont sound the exact! same but they for sure sound like they are very close related familly.

In the orignal Polytones the 3-4ohm OEM speaker drive the power amp quite hard which, imho, which (i believe) translates into how they sound/feel/respond when playing them.
Isolated just as "sound" with the stock Polytone power amp they (to my ears) come close with 8 ohm but with the OEM speaker they do sound a good handfull punchier, bitey, more direct, fuller and of cause has more volume on tap.

That being said, the effectivity/strength of the Class D power amp paired with 8 ohm, to my ears sound and feel/respond (give or take a tiny bit) like a Polytone - wonderfully snabby and dry/crispy.
Im aware that we all might have variying perceptions towards the identity of "Polytone sound".

I think there are plenty replacement speaker options to choose from theese days to probably make for a very happy and satisfied player after replacing a OEM speaker in a Polytone amp.

Im no "expert" though, just a hobbyist.

[Stringswinger]

Thanks guys, Lawson, Herbie etc. for chiming in with speaker rep. experiences.
Im still curious which speaker Stringswinger used, oh well.

Ill add too the Polytone demystifying.

I have a late 78´s MB, 15" eminence Legend 8 ohm replacement speaker (bought as is).
A recently aquired oddity of Taurus, 12" OEM Polytone speaker.
A diy amp/cabinet (sized as the Mega brute, 180W class D power amp, a eminence Beta (A, it used to have a pre amp built accordingly to a Polytone schematic but currently its just powered cab with a "pre in" and "ext. speaker" from the power amp

All three sound like Polytones despite the different configurations, ive had the original preamp preamps connected to my diy cab and vice versa my diy preamps (including the Brute eq pedal) hooked up to both the original Brutes, also the class D to power the 15".
Now of cause they, speaker size, ohm, watt etc. kept in mind dont sound the exact! same but they for sure sound like they are very close related familly.

In the orignal Polytones the 3-4ohm OEM speaker drive the power amp quite hard which, imho, which (i believe) translates into how they sound/feel/respond when playing them.
Isolated just as "sound" with the stock Polytone power amp they (to my ears) come close with 8 ohm but with the OEM speaker they do sound a good handfull punchier, bitey, more direct, fuller and of cause has more volume on tap.

That being said, the effectivity/strength of the Class D power amp paired with 8 ohm, to my ears sound and feel/respond (give or take a tiny bit) like a Polytone - wonderfully snabby and dry/crispy.
Im aware that we all might have variying perceptions towards the identity of "Polytone sound".

I think there are plenty replacement speaker options to choose from theese days to probably make for a very happy and satisfied player after replacing a OEM speaker in a Polytone amp.

Im no "expert" though, just a hobbyist.

I used a 4 ohm Eminence Texas Heat. That was the only 4 ohm speaker made by Eminence that weighed about the same as the OEM speaker. No OEM speakers or recone kits were available . The tone lost the Polytone warmth.

[jorgemg1984]

I used a 4 ohm Eminence Texas Heat. That was the only 4 ohm speaker made by Eminence that weighed about the same as the OEM speaker. No OEM speakers or recone kits were available . The tone lost the Polytone warmth.

But it still sounds good? I was always curious by the Texas Heat.

[Stringswinger]

But it still sounds good? I was always curious by the Texas Heat.

The guy who bought it thought it sounded pretty good. It was a tad bright for my taste.

[jorgemg1984]

Thanks!

[billy21]

I measured my 1981 CTS original speaker, sounds wonderful, it’s 4.5/4.8 ohm.
Eminence texas heat 4ohm could be the right replacement, very close to the olds cts.
There’s no possibility to find the original replacement, If you don’t like the sound you can try with another speaker brand, like jensen, celestion or jbl.

[vintagelove]

Fwiw, I hated the Texas heat.

i would go warehouse speakers, their c12c/s? (smooth cone) is excellent.

[jorgemg1984]

Why did you hated it?