Are semi-hollow guitars brighter than solid body guitars?

[Tal_175]

This started out as a semi-hollow vs. solid discussion. The distinction is easily blurred. It can be argued that they all are semi-hollow.

A case for that can be made. But I believe that would be a very contrived case. Arguing that pickup routes amounts to the same category as hollow archtop with an added center block construction is not gonna convince many.

Can an equalizer add brightness if none exists? That's a trick question since some always exists. The presence of the brightness can be amplified relative to other frequencies.

The way the construction of different instruments shape the frequency response curve cannot be mimicked by the very crude 3 knob control. A more muddy sounding guitar cannot be made the same as an inherently clear guitar by suppressing the bass and maxing out the treble in other words, in my opinion.

It is my impression that a traditional solid body (old Gibson LP or non-chambered Heritage H-150) is brighter acoustically than a 335, but I could be wrong. But neither type of guitar is meant to be performed with sans amplifier. I would argue that the major difference between the two styles of instruments is their feel, appearance and balance.

I agree that neither type of the guitar is meant to be played without an amplifier. For that reason the discussion regarding brightness was never about the acoustic tone in this thread. It's strictly about electric amplified tone.

There are recordings of Clapton on a LP, a 335, and a Strat. The most striking thing is that they are all unmistakable Clapton!

It could be. Clapton sounds like Clapton on acoustic guitar too. But this seems to be a topic for another thread.

[Robertkoa]

I care about a warmer / phatter Guitar to record with .

I agree with Tal 175 above generally-
I don't care how many knobs you turn - you will NOT get your bridge PU to sound like your neck PU .

So to warm up a Strat or Les Paul or 175 easily - build a new one with the bridge moved , and place the neck PU at about the 18th or 20th fret .

Meaning - you will have a Guitar with 17 or 19 frets with neck PU next to fingerboard.

Another way is warmer saddles .

Another way is to have a luthier engineer the Guitar to sound much deeper unplugged.

Something like an El Rey with a slightly larger body....

A 335 type with tiny block and about 2.25 "
deep ...and merely experiment with tuned laminate tops slightly warmer saddles and 20 fret neck like the LGB30 ( Japanese knew that smaller made in China Guitar needed to have neck PU slightly warmer location probably ....

Want to hear what a warmer Strat sounds like ? Listen to the Marchione Semi Hollow .

Also - if you do engineer a very deep sounding Strat or Tele - it will not sound like a Strat or Tele generally- it will sound like a 25.5 " scale _________ .

[Greentone]

...to warm up a Strat...

I find my Strat plenty warm on the neck pickup through a Polytone Mini Brute. The key is to use .11-.50 or even .12-.52 gauge strings.

[Robertkoa]

...to warm up a Strat...

I find my Strat plenty warm on the neck pickup through a Polytone Mini Brute. The key is to use .11-.50 or even .12-.52 gauge strings.

Yes- I am talking about warming it up much more than that.



And more at an elementary basic point to where it sonically resembles a 25.5" Archtop with more sustain etc .

Engineering/ Luthiery: is my point NOT merely hollowing out a thin plinky Guitar and expecting it to be Phatt or any old solidbody :
Chiropractors are not necessarily good guitarists and Guitarists are not necessarily good Luthiers ( including me)

If you hear a super warm fat Strat or Tele - it probably won't sound like one to you anyway. I am talking about re- engineering on that scale length actually .

Or re-engineering on 25.0" scale or 24.75"

The thread- apparently just hollowing a Guitar out won't work to make it warmer phatter.

A very few companies and Luthiers are making Guitars designed to sound warmer- most are not.

A lot of what I am doing Online is finding out who does so at an affordable price and has samples for me to hear .

So the Answer to the thread is: Semis and Hollows have to be engineered to be warmer/ deeper sounding than Solidbodies usually ...


I have a resonant solid Koa Strat SHAPED Guitar but it sounds nothing like a Strat - the trem is blocked ...

Sounds like a semi hollow 25.5" something...

I need something else that does it too- to add to my collection of 1 Guitar...lol

[Robertkoa]

Is it really though? That's actually the reason I started this thread. There seems to be a common perception that semi-hollows are warmer than solids. I find that not to be true. As also rpguitar noted to more hollow you go, to brighter it gets. Of course there are other factors. But if we are looking at the nature of effect of a hollow body (chambered, semi or fully) it tends to brighten the tone in my opinion.

Like someone said earlier it's on an individual basis per Guitar.

I am pretty good at listening unplugged to see the general 'how deep can it get- ?'.

If you have a deep Guitar you can always add coil cuts parallel etc etc..

BUT -a thin sounding Guitar ( heavy strings help ) - but a really thin sounding Guitar ( like Fender Strat ) can sound much fatter with PAFs ...

BUT - only to a point - it will get muddy if you EQ and try to add bass/ low mids that aren't there.

Conversely a nice fat Solidbody that sounds like Santana or Carlton on the neck PU you can ALWAYS add a thin bright middle PU and it will brighten way up - I have done this ( with a tech to install ) before.

Problem is now - I crave a bit of true Jazz Fatness and Acoustic Vibe ...for my thickest tone ---I am kinda hearing a slightly stringier Kriesberg type tone ....

Now- your point is well taken - if they made a Jazz Les Paul with no maple top , maybe Redwood Top , ?

But more important - Neck Pickup on 18 19 fret neck probably would suggest an 'electric'175 tone or closer

than most solidbodies - but not the Acoustic vibe that still comes thru the Pickups.

I just learned on this Forum that microphonic pickups are better if you want some Acoustic vibe or have a sonically interesting Guitar.

A set neck Mahogany thick body 19 fret Tele with H- S- H could probably be great for Jazz and everything else but no one is thinking ....mostly copying.

Eccentricity - yes - but I love a Guitar that ' blooms ' sustains and evolves with finger vibrato on longer notes....

I have one Guitar that does that - and need another.

[JaxJaxon]

yes Hollows are brighter than a semi hollow and semi hollows are brighter than solid. I think it has to do with resonance. that's not pluged in. other wise its in the pickups and hardly are any two pickups the same.

[Runepune]

Yeah, it sounds reasonable to me that more resonating bodies will absorb more low frequencies. Shorter and brighter sustain. They obviously sound fuller acoustically but the pickup only cares about the motion of that string.

[Robertkoa]

Yeah, it sounds reasonable to me that more resonating bodies will absorb more low frequencies. Shorter and brighter sustain. They obviously sound fuller acoustically but the pickup only cares about the motion of that string.

Theoretically ...yes.

But in actual practice- often not .

The deepest most lively resonant sounding Guitars vibrate all over.

The dead ones sound tinny.

Don't care about the science ....

Guitars that sustain longer usually have a lot of vibration in the body - theoretically they are ' robbing the string of energy'.

But in practice ...they vibrate all over.

Vibrations on a good Guitar system radiate into the body and somehow feed back into the strings evolving over time and filtering the highs and enhancing other frequencies .....AKA 'bloom '.

'Dead 'Guitars don't have that .

Don't use Scientific Theory- just poll people about guitars that vibrate all over the body
- Winners usually.

[Tal_175]

Theoretically ...yes.

But in actual practice- often not .

The deepest most lively resonant sounding Guitars vibrate all over.

The dead ones sound tinny.

Don't care about the science ....

Guitars that sustain longer usually have a lot of vibration in the body - theoretically they are ' robbing the string of energy'.

But in practice ...they vibrate all over.

Vibrations on a good Guitar system radiate into the body and somehow feed back into the strings evolving over time and filtering the highs and enhancing other frequencies .....AKA 'bloom '.

'Dead 'Guitars don't have that .

Don't use Scientific Theory- just poll people about guitars that vibrate all over the body
- Winners usually.

That is not true actually. It can be easily verified empirically. A Les Paul will sustain longer than an L5.
There is also an inverse correlation between sustain and volume. A flat top will sustain longer than similar sized archtop but archtops are louder in general. That's the concept behind the design of archtops. Strings press downward to the bridge as a result of the tail piece which allows for quicker release of the string energy. That means louder, more explosive peak volume but quick decay. Arch is for structural integrity to counter the strong downward force.
Flat top saddles do not work that way. They rock side ways due to the way strings are attached to the body. That releases the energy gradually. Hence the sustain. But the attack isn't as punchy and loud as similar sized archtops.

[Tal_175]

Violins and cellos are archtops because the sustain is controlled by the bow which means there is no reason to sacrifice volume for sustain. So quick decay is not an issue, efficient and instant release of energy is desirable. Acoustic guitars are picked so sustain is important. Therefore design seeks balance between sustain and volume.
Banjos also have quick release of energy due to the soft material used for the top. So they are loud and punchy. Archtops were designed initially to have similar roles as banjo's in acoustic bands but be louder.
So there is science to instrument design and calculated trade offs. It's not all magic dust

[Robertkoa]

I wasn't talking about Archtops - but about
solidbodies and semihollows.

I don't have any experience with Archtops -

After being on this Forum about a year- I asked Lou At ArchtopsNJazz -
'which of your Archtops sustain as well as a good semi hollow with a stoptail ?'

I thought he would rattle off 5 or 6 Models but he said Archtops don't sustain as well as Stoptails - then I realized for the style I do now I want /need a 'true Hybrid '.

However there are many acoustics that sustain as well as Solids and Semis - but reality is reality experience trumps theory always.

For example- I might get a Seventy Seven Jazz Hawk in my hands and it may sustain
great with a little finger vibrato enough to excite the strings and then - experience trumps again - if it works it works .

I mean trends are interesting and if you have a lot of people who have tried a certain model and Brand/Builder - that's better than Theory.

Like if you tell me you have seen or played 4 or 5 models of X Brand Guitar- I believe you...a cool thing about this Forum and I think Jazzers focus on clean tones gives more of a true read on a Guitar.

So experience is good ....

I just heard a Video by Hekselman - and I said
'There's an Archtop with good sustain- an exception.

Turns out it's a Victor Baker semi hollow 15" with a small center block- I doubt if it is 1.7" thick like 335's probably thicker.


Appears to have a wooden tailpiece- metal with soft saddles ? is my preference.

Anyway it looks like an Archtop but semi hollow - Luthier Engineered/Designed etc for warmth and sustain ...

I wouldn't even care about this stuff...but if you want to get phatter on neck PU than a LP or most solidbodies ...with a lot of sustain...not that easy to find..

[Runepune]

but reality is reality experience trumps theory always.

Anecdotes trump science?

[Robertkoa]