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...or soprano saxophone... which is a clarinet that has lost its soul...
Originally Posted by sgosnell
When it comes to wind (at least jazz) instruments, the one which seems to be hardest to get a good tone from is the clarinet. With great tone (Goodman comes to mind) it's sublime, but the tinny, shrieking tone seems to be all too common. I cannot love a clarinet played with poor tone.
And I also didn't miss the irony of jzucker making a post which says that tone is in the hands.
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12-18-2018 06:45 PM
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Yes I pretty much lived through his career and to be sure, he had more voice early, but more authenticity later. That last album "Hurt" was really a tour de force. Originally Posted by John A.
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+1 on "Hurt." Cash delivered big time right at the end of his career.
I have been a huge Cash fan all my life. I have performed his stuff in almost every setting I have performed in. You can do Cash in a jazz setting, not just in a country gig.
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A friend of mine who is perhaps the best guitarist I have ever played with (Bruce Forman) once told me that if he ever found a guitar that did not sound like him, he would have to buy it.... Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Plus, I am not kidding about Bruce's skill set, and I have played with Larry Coryell, Howard Alden and other Jazz guitar luminaries. Bruce is the best of them all, just not as well recognized (or as innovative).
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Another performer with no voice but still a formidable singer is Willie Nelson.
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I've been a fan of Bruce Forman's Masterclass videos for some time! What a teacher! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 12-18-2018 at 10:02 PM.
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Agreed on Forman being outstanding. And also not sufficiently recognized. Plus he seems to have way, way too much fun with the music... Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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If you said to me hands down who is the finest all around jazz guitar player it may well be Bruce Forman. He has such taste and chops along with what appears to be a very happy spirit when he plays. I never get tired of hearing him play. He does not get the recognition he should really, and maybe he really does not want it either he has zero to prove. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Bruce is chops with really smooth lines and I love his comping behind a singer. He does it all.
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This! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Some people act like good tone is so difficult to achieve you could spend your whole life searching for it, spending money on gear, drive yourself to madness, and never find it. But I can coax a decent tone from most rigs.
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If tone is in the hands, you need to wash them with this.
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This is kinda of a joke .. like something you'd read on TDPRI
Gear doesn't matter when you play jazz, since you end up throwing a blanket over your amp anyways!
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I can when it comes to guitar, but never amp. For as long as I've lived, I've never gotten a pleasant tone out of an AC30 Originally Posted by DRS
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Bruce is an absolute monster guitar player. I love his playing! Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Bruce Foreman is great, no doubt. Fwiw, he is currently in the process of having Alexander Dumble build an amp for him. I wonder where he thinks tone comes from? I believe the hands can effect tone.
Discuss amongst yourselves, while I go visit my mom for the holidays.
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OTOH he still sounds like Bruce Forman on a Resonator guitar. Originally Posted by whiskey02
Tone - a players sound, touch and so on 100% comes from the hands.
For instance Adrian Brendel played my wife's cello, worth a fraction of his. It sounded like him. The missus was kind of thinking about getting a new cello until this rather brutal demonstration.
But - I don't think he rather have that instrument lol.
The right guitar won't make it easier to get YOUR sound, but we all are looking for the equipment combination that will just feel and sound right. Bruce wants that Dumble because it will make easier to dial in HIS sound - that's the whole thing about what Dumble does, from what I hear.
That said, I don't think the right instrument is necessarily a function of more money.... If you find something that works for you, not a bad idea to stick with it, even if it's not the most valuable or coveted instrument.
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In 15 years when Alexander finally delivers the amp, I guess we'll be able to judge its effect on Bruce's tone. Must ... resist ... saying ... something ... about affect vs effect as a verb .... Originally Posted by whiskey02
John
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The hands don't affect tone, they effect tone?
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Hands actually not being capable of producing a full musical sound (no pitch) they can only approximate "tone," or can only imitate, or act as if they produce tone, thus, they affect tone as in behaving as if they did. They can also influence tone, even cause it via a pitch-producing device, provided it is manipulated by the hands, so that yes, hands can effect tone. Hands can also alter or shape a pre-existing tone, and thus also can be said to "affect" tone. Originally Posted by christianm77
The things I will do to avoid grading at a term's end...
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I will offer one somewhat serious contribution here. I think the more advanced a player is, the more capable they are of achieving "their" tone on almost any instrument. I think excellent, high quality gear matters most to beginning and intermediate players. The beginner needs an instrument and amplifier that, when he gets it right, will not let him down. To have to fight the guitar and amplifier all day long, to have constantly to adapt and shift to accommodate an instrument that has bad intonation, sorry pickups, poor action, and just sounds awful, will discourage a beginner and greatly hinder an intermediate player. So ironically, when someone sees my L5ces and says "YOui must be a great guitar player!" I always say "No, if I was, I would not need a Gibson L5. But as a rank amateur, I need every advantage I can get to sound good."
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Both, I suppose. Originally Posted by christianm77
Effect = makes happen
Affect = has an effect (influence) on.
A very large percent of the time, people write effect, but mean affect (rarely, vice versa). Sometimes it's hard to tell what the intent is.
John
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It's very common in threads like this to conflate style with tone. As a gross generalization, a player's style tends to be apparent regardless of gear, and most players tend to dial in their preferred kinds of sound within the limits of the actual gear they may be using at the time. IOW, you'll never get a Tele to really sound like a Les Paul and vice versa. If you give George Benson a standard Tele, he'll sound just like George Benson playing a Tele and not an Ibanez GB10.
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How about this? Originally Posted by D.G.
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That sounds a lot like George Benson playing a tele.
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I don’t think I’ve ever had to deal with bad intonation and action even as a beginner 25 years ago. Student guitars are pretty good these days. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
The biggest problem for me was getting an amp that was light and good.... but a cheap guitar through a Fender twin will sound better than an L5 through a crappy amp.
Imagining that the instrument and amp can supply tone for you at any level is not helpful. Things like right hand positioning, pick attack, fretting, how and where you end notes, developing a true legato sound where notes don’t overlap or separate out, vibrato and so on - that’s something that can be worked on any basically sound instrument. Doesn’t need to be an L5, but if it is, fair enough.
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I think that’s a false dichotomy - it’s true what you say, but there are certain things I will do playing wise that will give a jazz tone - I do them on any instrument, Tele, 175, acoustic. It’s not just about dialling it in.... in fact if you *need* to dial in a jazz tone, I would argue you don’t have the playing together yet. Originally Posted by D.G.
That said obviously a Tele isn’t like a 175.
And obviously there are players who use a lot of effects as part their tone. It’s not cut and dried
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