The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Building and tuning a guitar for a beautiful acoustic voice is not the same thing as tuning it for volume. The loudest archtops don't sound beautiful, just loud. And that was the point of them, once upon a time.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I think that's pretty much right. Modern archtops don't need the sheer volume that was necessary before amplification. You don't find many guitarists in any type of band playing unamplified now. With current amplification methods, it's possible to get almost any sound you like, as loud as you like, so the current luthiers go for a nicer, more rounded sound without worrying about building something loud and brash. Using an amp is the norm, and expected. Things change.
    There are some bands. Gypsy Jazz, Bluegrass, trad jazz and some vintage style big bands are where its lingered on. It’s quite common for street bands to play unamped in New Orleans for instance.

    (Also roaming bands are quite trendy now and that has to acoustic unless you dick around with wireless stuff.)

    It’s nice to have the Loar for when I need it. Also it’s nice for that music semi amplified. I also played it on my last album, Balagan Cafe Band, which is swing influenced music....

    The stridency of the tone is kind of a benefit, if you want to avoid the ‘mainstream jazz’ tone.

    However, it is TOUGH to get the Gypsy jazz guitar or acoustic archtop sound as loud as you like it unless you have an attentive sound man and it’s your band and you can soundcheck the guitar for 30 minutes.

  4. #28

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    Even in New Orleans, amps are becoming rather common. They make strolling more difficult, but in clubs amps seem to be the norm nowadays. There are still, and probably always will be, strictly acoustic bands with guitar and banjos, but they're in the minority. As for Blighty Olde, I defer to you.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    Even in New Orleans, amps are becoming rather common. They make strolling more difficult, but in clubs amps seem to be the norm nowadays. There are still, and probably always will be, strictly acoustic bands with guitar and banjos, but they're in the minority. As for Blighty Olde, I defer to you.
    Nah I usually play through an amp. Musicians are sensitive, and acoustic sound is a thing of beauty, and I have the technique to play that way, but ‘audiences’ are loud.

    Agents are stupid as well, they have no idea. Often they say acoustic and I ignore it because unless we are playing to a listening audience in a concert room or something there is no way that is what they want. I have a battery amp that improves my life somewhat in these situations.

    But I do get some calls to do it. I did a shit one last night, all acoustic. Agent booked the wrong thing.

    I did a gig where the restaurant really did mean it. No amps at all. It was fine.

    But roaming is big here. Amps - even battery amps, don’t quite work in this set up. That’s a challenge at a party.

    But in general that’s always going to be a tricky one. A guitar is a guitar. A loud one is better but in a noisy room it’s all much of a muchness.

    That’s why I say if you are working player you might be better off getting a quieter guitar that amplifies well, maybe the Godin 5th ave, or something. Strident, loud guitars are difficult to faithfully amplify.

    This used to be an issue when I played in a band that wanted that sound specifically and not electric but never really allowed enough time in the soundcheck to get the guitar sound right. Fantastically frustrating, I can’t tell you. (Jonathon Stout can do what he likes, he’s the leader.)

    Now I just play a 175. Learned my lesson.
    Last edited by christianm77; 12-08-2018 at 07:17 PM.

  6. #30

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    Btw it’s easy to view the past with rose tinted spectacles, but I wonder if the audience hum was really any quieter in the age before amplification.

    I can imagine guitar players just getting really pissed off all the time but there being no option. There’s a reason the electric guitar took off.

    On the other hand, listen to that racket on the Mintons tapes - reminds me of a lot of present day places lol

  7. #31

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    Any place where people go for a good time, especially with alcohol, is going to be noisy. They don't go out to hear musicians play while they sit quietly, they're there to have a good time, and they will. The band is just part of the background, and having a good time. Might as well accept that, it won't change. I've played in 'clubs' in Oklahoma where there was chicken wire around the bandstand, to protect the band from thrown beer bottles and other hard objects. When a fight breaks out, you just keep on playing. The only real danger is when someone goes out to their pickup truck and brings back a gun. Chicken wire won't stop bullets. I don't keep on playing when guns are present, I get on the floor or behind something substantial. Fortunately, I haven't done that sort of thing in a very long time.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I've played in 'clubs' in Oklahoma where there was chicken wire around the bandstand, to protect the band from thrown beer bottles and other hard objects. When a fight breaks out, you just keep on playing. The only real danger is when someone goes out to their pickup truck and brings back a gun. Chicken wire won't stop bullets. I don't keep on playing when guns are present, I get on the floor or behind something substantial. Fortunately, I haven't done that sort of thing in a very long time.
    Man, I thought the chicken wire thing was just something from the movies.

  9. #33

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    Sometimes movies actually show real things. Not often, but sometimes.

  10. #34

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    That’s amazing.

  11. #35

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    Being almost 20 years of age, and having grown up in the country, never been to a city (I'd briefly visited Amarillo, TX a few times, but I wouldn't call it a city) I was easily amazed, but that part seemed sort of ordinary. The human interactions were interesting, though. I couldn't dance, but watching the patrons was educational. FWIW, this was back in the 60s, long ago and far away.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    Any place where people go for a good time, especially with alcohol, is going to be noisy. They don't go out to hear musicians play while they sit quietly, they're there to have a good time, and they will. The band is just part of the background, and having a good time. Might as well accept that, it won't change. I've played in 'clubs' in Oklahoma where there was chicken wire around the bandstand, to protect the band from thrown beer bottles and other hard objects. When a fight breaks out, you just keep on playing. The only real danger is when someone goes out to their pickup truck and brings back a gun. Chicken wire won't stop bullets. I don't keep on playing when guns are present, I get on the floor or behind something substantial. Fortunately, I haven't done that sort of thing in a very long time.
    Did you play both kinds of music?

    John

  13. #37

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    Got my ‘57 Les gold top nicked by those suckers thrown at us while playing at a North Sacramento Roller skating rink in 1958..

    We weren’t really that bad, it was just all the noise from those durn skates!

  14. #38
    Thanks guys for all your knowledge of strings--and guitars. Much appreciated.

  15. #39

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    chicken wire won’t stop thrown quarters

    Did you play both kinds of music?
    Chicken wire won't stop much of anything other than chickens and bottles. Mostly we played country, because it was in the country. We did western swing and some jazz, whatever the crowd would tolerate. Out there, they tend to tolerate Bob Wills music pretty well. And 50s and 60s country music. The closest we came to rock was Tequila. Nobody in the band knew how to play rock, or cared.