The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hey all.

    I've been intrigued by these amps for a while, and purchased a Sequal Ravine today used at a very good price (half off new).

    My question is this: are these only for jazz/archtops, or do solid body guitars sound good through them as well? Something like a Gibson GA-50 sounds wonderful with solid bodys, and since Sequals are somewhat based around the old Gibson Octal preamp circuit, I was thinking they would as well, but I never could find a clip of a solid body through one.

    What can I expect? Thank you.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Welcome to the Forum, and congrats on finding a used SeQuel!!

    Assuming you're playing jazz/blues with the solid body, I'm sure the amp will sound great! If you're playing high-gain metal, then maybe not ..

    Please post some pics and a review when it arrives!

    Marc

  4. #3
    Hey thanks. I play a little jazz, blues, and mostly rock. But lately I have been really getting into Julian Lage and Bill Frissel style jazz. Kind of a hybrid style. Do you think the amp can handle rock and that style of jazz? My guitars are a Gretsch Duo Jet, Danocaster telecaster fitted with a P90 neck/Humbucker bridge, and a Fender Jazzmaster (right now it has SD Antiquities in it, but I might put in Fralin Noiseless P90s for playing out live). I was going to use the amp to gig all these styles and guitars. Think it can do the job?

    I became infatuated with the Octal/GA-50 sound after seeing Frissel cover Sam Cooke's "A change is gonna come". The clips I heard on the Sequal site sounded a lot like it, though they were clearly through a hollowbody. Frissel uses a Telecaster with a TK Smith (they usually sound twangy, but on this recording they sound magical) through a GA-50 mic'd with a ribbon.
    Last edited by beeswax; 11-21-2018 at 02:06 PM.

  5. #4

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    I played a couple of SeQuel amps a few years ago. The earliest amp was dubbed the “one-knob wonder” because it only had a volume control. I think the objective was to provide a warm/neutral frequency response referenced to classic jazz recordings and vintage Gibson amps. Treble and bass controls are now on all products, but I think the intended use is to start with controls at noon, and only use them to tweak a bit. This is in contrast to Fender’s midrange scoop. With Fender amps you must turn the bass and treble near zero to get a flat frequency response. If you find yourself turning the bass and treble very low when you use Fender amps you’ll probably get along well with the SeQuel. If you find Fender reverbs too bright and “surfy” you’ll probably like the SeQuel’s reverb much better. They are also beautiful and solid. Nice catch!
    Last edited by KirkP; 11-19-2018 at 08:02 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP
    I played a couple of SeQuel amps a few years ago. The earliest amp was dubbed the “one-knob wonder” because it only had a volume control. I think the objective was to provide a warm/neutral frequency response referenced to classic jazz recordings and vintage Gibson amps. Treble and bass controls are now on all products, but I think the intended use is to start with controls at noon, and only use them to tweak a bit. This is in contrast to Fender’s midrange scoop. With Fender amps you must turn the bass and treble near zero to get a flat frequency response. If you find yourself turning the bass and treble very low when you use Fender amps you’ll probably get along well with the SeQuel. They are also beautiful and solid. Nice catch!
    Thanks! Right now I play through a '62 Fender Princeton brownface, and it only has one tone knob, so I definitely don't tweak knobs much at all. Usually I have it on 4, which is a bit on the darker side, and then from there I will adjust the pickups a bit with my tone controls as well.

    I would stick with this amp were it not for my newfound obsession with a few jazz players and the fact I want to gig, and to bring a '62 Princeton to shows is probably not a wise idea.

    I do use some pedals (delay, strymon flint, big muff, and wah) occasionally for dynamics/build ups, but mostly play clean. My understanding is the Sequal has a lot of clean headroom. That could be nice compared with the Princeton, which breaks up around 4, and with the P-90 it breaks up even sooner.

  7. #6

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    99.9% of the folks here have never heard a Sequel amp. Congrats, you scored. Where on earth did you find a used Sequel Ravine?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    99.9% of the folks here have never heard a Sequel amp. Congrats, you scored. Where on earth did you find a used Sequel Ravine?
    I found it on reverb, but it was labeled as Verellen (I believe that is the amp designer in Seattle who makes them for Sequel?). Since it had been sitting a while, probably due to that labeling, I then got into a difficult two day negotiation with the place. They kept coming back with the same figure, which I wasn't comfortable with, but eventually I got basically half off new with free shipping and a $90 'studio slips' case included. I do feel lucky. If I don't like the amp for some reason, I will pass it off at a fair price and notify you guys it's up for sale. If I do like it, I'll try to post some clips. It might be hard to find a good time to do that since I live in a condo with shared walls.

  9. #8

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    Since I live near Seattle, I’d probably have grabbed if I’d spotted it first. I think you’ll like it. If you need the Fender mid-scoop sometimes a pedal should get you there. What’s the speaker model?
    (Edit — I misunderstood & thought you meant the Reverb seller was in Seattle.)
    Last edited by KirkP; 11-20-2018 at 08:22 PM.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP
    Since I live near Seattle, I’d probably have grabbed if I’d spotted it first. I think you’ll like it. If you need the Fender mid-scoop sometimes a pedal should get you there. What’s the speaker model?
    I'm not sure yet, but I'll let you know when it arrives. I know they were using Fane Alnico speakers in the original builds, but in an interview Verellen stated they had several iterations of the amp. This is a 2017 model, so I'm not sure what they were using then.

  11. #10

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    Okay, it was sold by CME. I wonder why CME labeled it a Verellen. Is it possible that a local owner traded it in and CME didn't know what it was?

    That Ravine was my favorite all time jazz guitar amp. I sampled it at SoundCloud in Seattle, and at the time I was trying to justify paying the $2k price. Now they're what, near $2700? Great amp. If you decide it's not your cup of tea I'd gladly take it off your hands.

  12. #11

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    it's a smart design, cause you get the octal preamp tube grind, but then have 6l6 hi power amp section...so its hot toned but clean!..until you really get super loud...the alnico 12 speaker is only going to make it that much better..and true vintage sounding!...plus it has reverb!! flint is great, but nice to have the reverb in the amp..not pre pre-amp


    should go great with your collection of guitars!...

    cheers

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Okay, it was sold by CME. I wonder why CME labeled it a Verellen. Is it possible that a local owner traded it in and CME didn't know what it was?
    Yes, I was wondering this. It is clearly a Sequal Ravine, right? I think Verellen built the amps for them, so maybe that stamp is on it somewhere, and they didn't know any better? I will have to check. Only thing I was nervous about is the speaker didn't look like a known one that they use, but I'll see when it arrives.

    So, a head's up for anyone looking for one of these: you might find it labeled as Verellen, since, to my understanding, Ben Verellen builds these for Sequel. Here is an interview on their collaboration:

    Bench Press: Ben Verellen of Verellen Amplifiers | Fretboard Journal


    That Ravine was my favorite all time jazz guitar amp. Great amp. If you decide it's not your cup of tea I'd gladly take it off your hands.
    Well that is great to hear! If I don't like it, I will notify you all that it's up for sale. It arrives Friday, so I'll give some feedback then.

    If anyone has more info on these please do share. Especially sure about the speakers used on the 2017 models.
    Last edited by beeswax; 11-21-2018 at 02:06 AM.

  14. #13
    Attached is an image of the speaker, from the ad.

    The two speakers I know were used in these are the WGs12 and Fane Alnico. From reference pictures I've been able to pull of these speakers, it doesn't resemble either. I'm a bit concerned the original speaker might have been replaced. I'll have to see what information is on the speaker and if there is any evidence it's been replaced once it arrives. Does anyone recognize that speaker? I know it's not a great photo. I didn't think to ask about that before buying because usually CME documents anything unoriginal, but I should have, given that they didn't even seem to know what amp they had.

    I added a 2nd photo for those who don't know these amps -- one of the cool things, visually, is how they use bass and treble clef images on the amp instead of writing the words. I thought that was a super nice touch.
    Attached Images Attached Images Sequel Ravine-n8h2zyhf0loszavojr3d-jpg Sequel Ravine-ctcqsw31l3ri4dzv2dwy-jpg 

  15. #14

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    Michael Biller is the only dealer of these Sequel amps. I understand that it was made for and in collaboration with Michael Biller's Sound Island Music by Ben Verellen under the Sequel brand name. beeswax, email Michael; he can probably fill you in on the original speaker.

    As for the speaker in situ, the basket looks like a blue frame. It also looks as if a CD has been stuck over the label to deflect the heat from the power tubes/valves. My guess is that it is a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog.

    The Ravine was pretty expensive new, $2500, if I am not mistaken. If you paid half for it, I think you got a pretty good deal.

    PS Run it for a few hours when you get it. If you have a looper, feed it with a looped guitar signal. And then play your guitar through it. You want to listen out for distortion or loss of clean headroom at normal playing levels for jazz when the amp is cooking. I have a suspicion the heat from the power tubes/valves is not playing nicely with the speaker driver. And that is why the owner sold it. Design shortsightedness possibly. Not trying to be a wet blanket here. I may well be very wrong about it. Re-housing it in a head cab or a larger combo cab may alleviate the issue. What looks to be a CD stuck over the label has to be there for heat deflection. Can't think of any other reason for being.
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 11-21-2018 at 01:37 PM.

  16. #15
    Thanks for that; I will look for that issue. So you're saying the tubes should be further to the right so they're out of the way of the speaker?

    Wouldn't they pick up on that design flaw by now, though? They have been making them since 2013, and this is a 2017 model.
    Does anyone know if a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog has ever been used as the factory speaker in these amps?

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by beeswax
    Thanks for that; I will look for that issue. So you're saying the tubes should be further to the right so they're out of the way of the speaker?

    Wouldn't they pick up on that design flaw by now, though? They have been making them since 2013, and this is a 2017 model.
    beeswax, I cannot be sure which is why I suggest that you test it for a few hours to get it cooking. I would have made the cabinet much taller so that the tubes/valves clear the speaker magnet but it loses then its cuteness cuboid factor. It will probably work as intended for one to two hours until the heat builds up in the magnet. Over time, heat will degauss the magnet. This is just a wild guess on my part.

    It is a small boutique amp. Boutique is as boutique does. They don't sell in enough numbers to have a pressing need to address issues. Again, just wild speculation on my part.

    Test it and see for yourself.

    This is what I got off the web: When heated above 176° Fahrenheit (80° Celsius), magnets will quickly lose their magnetic properties. The magnet will become permanently demagnetized if exposed to these temperatures for a certain length of time or heated at a significantly higher temperature (Curie temperature).

    In close proximity to those output tubes/valves, 176F/80C is quite readily achieved. Perhaps the previous owner got tired of replacing speaker drivers. Again, just speculation on my part.

  18. #17

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    verellen use wgs speakers ...thats probably one but without the label sticker!!..it's a ceramic mag speaker...its proximity to the power tubes may have caused the label to peel off...or they peeled it off as a preventative

    the power tube 6l6 positioning is going to make speaker changes tricky..pretty sure an alnico speaker with bell will not fit...tight little cabinet

    the heat with an open back cab shldnt be an issue...tho not ideal


    the images for tone and volume knobs is something orange amps has been doing since the 60's..

    cheers

  19. #18

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    That amp was originally designed with an Alninco speaker as part of its design philosophy, was it not? I heard Michael’s, Sound Islands, Ravine with an Alninco speaker. I was so enamored with its sound I don’t recall the speaker inside. Regardless, that Ravine is an amp aimed for a purist audiophile who believes guitars are pretty kewl, too. You heard it here first.

  20. #19
    I wrote Michael to ask and linked him to this thread, so hopefully we get clarification on some of the issues brought up.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by beeswax
    I wrote Michael to ask and linked him to this thread, so hopefully we get clarification on some of the issues brought up.
    Oh good. At minimum I'll learn if I'm coming down with Alzheimer's.

  22. #21
    From Michael:


    All I can say about the RAVINE is that since we switched to the WGS 12L we have not had any complaints about the sound, performance, or longevity of our RAVINE combos.
    Plus we have a very strong warrantee: you return the amp to us, we fix it for free, then return it to you. We are quite proud of our accomplishments and want to share the fine musical sounds with others who believe in what we do and how we do it.

    There is a lot of crazy perhaps well intentioned "information" on the web forums. Originally we were going for a more 1950s sound with an AlNiCo speaker but these didn't hold up as well as we'd wanted. These included the FANE A60 and a Weber knock-off based on their Blue.

    Michael
    So it seems like this speaker could be a problem, after all. I'm surprised they used a "knock-off" (sounds cheap) since they are known for using premium parts.

    We will see what arrives. Now I'm thinking I got a bad deal...
    Wishing I just bought a GA-40 or 50.

  23. #22

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    don't get too hung up on the speaker...alnico magnet speakers are more susceptible to damage from heat and stress...why they typically have a plastic bell covering the magnet...it gives distance and protects...the ravine is very tightly packed cab...many alnicos won't fit..so ceramic speaker is gonna be way to go...

    if not satisfied with stock speaker, look into a celestion creamback...ceramic but very vintage alnico sounding speaker,,great speaker

    plus michael basically just told you they take care of any problems...thats pretty darn good customer service...keep the faith..its a fine amp


    and you have some nice gear (guitars-pedals) to match up with it

    it's gonna be good

    cheers

  24. #23
    Hey thanks, Neatomic.

    A bit more info from Michael. I asked when they switched to the WGS-12L


    I don't recall offhand but likely about 2-years ago if not more. My personal favorite speaker in the RAVINE was the FANE 12 AXA AlNiCo 100-watt but unfortunately the company discontinued making that model which is a shame in my opinion.

    At their recommendation we then tried the FANE A60 but it produced an odd "gas passing" type noise at low frequencies in the RAVINE circuit. We then used the Weber custom version on a few amps but it didn't quite have the sound of the FANE so we kept on researching others.
    The WGS 12L works nicely in the RAVINE producing a highly pristine transparent accurate sound of the guitar. Plus it is shallower thus giving more room for the power tubes. The only downside is that it adds weight...the speaker itself weighs about 18-pounds.

    Anyhow, enjoy your new-to-you RAVINE and focus on making music with it; in the end that's what it's all about!

    Best regards,
    Michael

  25. #24

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    yeah..michaels on point..fanes were great speakers..go way back to classic hi watt amps..but many changes and rebrands since..

    he also realizes they are facing a space problem..as far as housing a speaker within the ravine cab..they found one they like, that fits...ok

    tho check out the celestion creamback, if not satisfied..its premium speaker..but worth it...if it fits!!

    but also agree with michael- play don't worry!- mick ronson

    cheers

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    yeah..michaels on point..fanes were great speakers..go way back to classic hi watt amps..but many changes and rebrands since..

    he also realizes they are facing a space problem..as far as housing a speaker within the ravine cab..they found one they like, that fits...ok

    tho check out the celestion creamback, if not satisfied..its premium speaker..but worth it...if it fits!!

    but also agree with michael- play don't worry!- mick ronson

    cheers
    Thanks! I'm going to see what is in it first on Friday, then see how it sounds, and then go from there. If I need recommendations I'll come back here, though I have yours jotted down. Thanks again.