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Hi,
I own a Tele and a Gibson es135 with p90s. I am considering an archtop. I play gypsy jazz and Charlie Christian/blues. I love the classic jazz guitar tone, but I'm not into mellow. I would appreciate any recommendations for a used guitar. Not interested in buying new. I know, try before you buy, but that's not easy in my area. Thanks for any assistance.
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11-06-2018 09:42 PM
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Godin Kingpin. Easy choice.
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Under $1k, jazz tone... Aria PE-175.
I think it's a nearly universally accepted fact that you're hard pressed to find something substantially better for substantially more buckazoids. Prices on them have been (IMO justifiably so) slowly inching their way up to and above the $1k mark but even then for what they do they're way undervalued.
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Archtop, for jazz, < 1k : have a look at Eastman, used. I have an AR503CE that I love.
Some guys will suggest Ibanez, but no personal experience with these.
And some others will tell you that you are covered with your Tele, but that's another question ...
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If you are prepared to buy a "road warrior" that is in player-grade condition, you could probably get an Ibanez 2355 (excellent ES175 copy) for around a thou.
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In addition to the Godin Kingpin, check out the Guild A150 Savoy (floating DeArmond RC 1000 pick-up) and Eastman 405e (set-in P-90 style pickup). Both are quite nice, and under a grand used. It might also be worth taking a look at an Epiphone ES 295 Premium (I haven't played one, though, so can't comment from experience).
John
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Just note the neck joint design on Godin cutaways is not a smooth transition. I couldn't deal with it on the Godin Jazz model that I had for about a year. Other than that they are great guitars IMHO.
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Epiphone Dot... Great tone, excellent playability, and you should have ~$700 left over for a new amp!
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There seems to be broadly two categories of electric hollowbodies in my opinion. Bright sounding ones (Benedetto style?) and dark sounding ones (ES 175 style). Eastman's I think are on the bright side (I used to own a 503). Godin's seems to be on the dark side. I recommend trying guitars from each type and deciding what you prefer.
Epi ES 175 premiums are the only (legal) exact ES 175 copies in the market and affordable if you're looking for a dark tone. They seem to be very well received.
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Ibanez, Epiphone, Eastman or Guild. All give a lot of guitar for the money. I tried a Godin a while back and was underwhelmed, but some out here really like it, so you may as well. Good luck, and enjoy the search.
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An Ibanez with a pressed spruce top for under $500. There was an AFJ95(?) with a single neck pickup from a few years ago. There is probably one under a different model name now but the specifications remain largely the same.
Ibanez makes consistently good functional jazz boxes, if one is not concerned about pedigree. They are a great boon to anyone who wants to play jazz on an archtop but is a little strapped for cash. Fine fretwork on the Ibanez ArtCores.
Ibanez Artcore Vintage AKJV95 - Dark Amber Low Gloss | Sweetwater
Edit: Sorry, you said not into mellow and something used, not new. Hmm, an ES-330 type with humbuckers like Emily Remler's? I have a Seventy-Seven Guitars Exrubato Hollow with a pair of humbuckers. Perhaps a Gibson ES-390 Studio, if you can find one used?
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Perhaps the Eastman T486 will be of interest to you. It is an archtop, but in a thinline version. As a result, it will not be mellow (unless you want it to be), and it is very versatile, and works well for jazz. It generally lists new for around $1200, so used will be under $1000. Here is an example from eBay that I have no affiliation with.
2018 Eastman T486 Classic Archtop Semi-Hollow Body Guitar PRISTINE | eBay
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Thanks to you all for your suggestions. There's a lot to consider here. I have some possible preferences, but the fact is that I have not played any of those above and the others mentioned. A lot of "work" to do. Thanks again!
Originally Posted by snoskier63
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To add to your research: Originally Posted by Phil59
An Epiphone Broadway, ideally an MIK, is a good choice for a pressed top.
If you want a carved top, The Loar offers a couple models in your price range.
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If you’re looking for smaller (the Broadway is a 17”...), consider the Epiphone Zephyr Regent. It’s a 16” ES165 type. I have one and it’s superb. Originally Posted by Alder Statesman
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There's a guy in CT selling an early 60s Guild T-50 with the Franz P-90 type pickup on CL. Right at your dollar cutoff area. I'd be on that one were I looking for the sounds described.
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I'm playing the new Ibanez Model, AFC95. It has 2 floating PU's, and the flat finish. I paid $699 w/o case. They also have 3 other models that have a high gloss finish, 1 or 2 PU's but comes with a case. There a bit more $. Coming from solid bodies, and a 335 type. I'm happy with it. After I bought it I saw that Richie Zellon has a video on YT were he rates hollow bodies under $1000. He chose the Ibanez 2nd, and said it was a great value for it's price.
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I say it again: The ES175 is not a dark sounding guitar. You can make it sound dark by turning down the Tone Pot. But the pure sound of the ES175 is lively and bright. Did you really ever play a 175? Originally Posted by Tal_175
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I own a Gibson ES 175. When people say it's dark, they are speaking relatively. I owned a Eastman it was brighter. I played ES 275 a couple of times, it was considerably brighter. I played GB 10, it was much brighter. The list can go on. I keep my tone at 10 a lot of the times. Originally Posted by redwater
Can you give an example of a guitar that you consider dark?
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Gibson Pat Martino, L5, most Ibanez Jazzboxes either from China or Japan sounding darker than the ES175.
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Well I disagree. L5's I played were actually bright most likely due to the resonance of the solid carved body. We are speaking of the electric sound not the acoustic, right? Originally Posted by redwater
In general, solid carved guitars will sound brighter than ES 175 with the exception of may be very resonant early ES 175 models from the 50's.
I'm under the impression that Ibanez's are generally known to be bright guitars.Last edited by Tal_175; 11-10-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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Yes, we are talking about the electric sound. I played three different L5s, all from 2010-2015. They all sounded very mellow and darker than the 175s I played. But I agree that solid carved top Archtops tend to sound brighter than 175s. Heritage Eagles come to my mind.
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Soooooo many variables. Make sure all the archtops have at least .12-.50 strings. Else, all will sound brightish.
Now, all else equal, the solid topped instruments with thinner tops, e.g., Heritage, will sound brighter. Thicker top? (Recent L5) Darker tone.
Laminated construction? All over the place. Older, thinner topped 175s...brighter than newer, thicker topped ones.
Amps/settings?
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All the L5's I played were in the vintage zone, not the new ones. It makes sense that the new ones sound more mellow.
Also all the thinner depth hollowbodies I played regardless of the make (Collins, Gibson, Ibanez etc.) sounded brighter which is counter intuitive to me. My theory is that thinner depth makes them more resistant to feedback so there is more tolerance to make the tops thinner? Thinner tops also make up for the loss of body volume in the acoustic tone perhaps.
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That´s all true. My original point was just that the 175 is not a dark sounding guitar, compared to many others. Originally Posted by Greentone
I think that many folks associate the dark sound Jim Hall had with the 175.
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