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Chasing Trane is a fine documentary.
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11-14-2018 07:40 PM
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It's sort of depressing to come to a jazz guitar forum and see yet another post about tedious baby boomer rock guitarists. For F's sake, who comes to a jazz guitar forum to talk about Jimmy Page? I come here to escape Jimmy Page
But since the thread is here in my opinion Hendrix is probably the most brilliant rhythm player ever, nobody ever did the R+B drop in and out of chords and lead thing better than him, but he's a really tiresome soloist, harmonically uninteresting, and he epitomizes the rock guitar thing of letting sonics (pedals, overdrive, feedback) do the work of interesting harmony. Miles wanted him for his band because he was stylistically interesting and hip but if you were just going to jam on two chord vamps and let Teo Macero splice it into a song, like Miles was doing at that point, Hendrix would be a disaster.
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Then why'd ya click on this thread, bruh?
Originally Posted by PB+J
I actually find it interesting to read what jazz players have to say about these iconic rock guitarists. Far more insightful (at times) then the guys who usually fawn over them. And most people here have more than enough casual confidence to just offer their thoughts, and even their appreciation, for what these players contributed to the scene.
I can't really remember another such thread in recent memory. Seems like no big deal to me. How many times can you talk about Kessel or Martino or even Wes and offer much new material? So it's all good.
I'm not much of a Hendrix fan either, FWIW.
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Why'd I click on it? Why, to express my disapproval! It's a time honored forum practice. Originally Posted by rpguitar
I think it's partly the title. Hendrix and Beck might be worth considering in a jazz forum, maybe, but Page and Clapton are just generic blooz rockers. So tired of hearing about them. It's not a discerning title thread title, so it starts off badly imho.
I had beck's jazz albums, wired and blow by blow, back in the day. They were kinda good but he couldn't manage to solo on "goodbye pork pie hat" and reverted to blues changes. Says it all right there
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They didn’t solo on the changes in the Mingus version either. During the sax solo they revert to a few very simple chord changes, somewhat like a minor blues. So Beck’s approach is not so different really. Originally Posted by PB+J
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Originally Posted by jzucker
I think they sound like a product of their time...which is no slight, it was a damn good time in music.
But "Gypsies" is on another level for me. I love all the live stuff, but Gypsies is just...damn. It's just one of the best sets of music I've ever heard. Completely blew my mind when I first heard it. Still blows me away.
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I think that some of it may sound like a product of the time, but some of it has been proven to be almost timeless. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
What sets it apart for me (besides his playing, phrasing, compositions, etc.) is the engineering. I knew what stereo was before I bought something like Axis, etc., but I never knew what stereo was capable of until I heard Axis, etc. I asked previously, but I don't recall (and I have probably all of Hendrix's studio and most of the after death releases) anything that has added strings or horns. I think that says a lot about what the guitar meant for him.
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If we could have taken one or two of the contenders out of this match and replaced them with Django, we might have had something like this...
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Clever juxtaposition of Hendrix at Woodstock playing "Banner" with somebody playing Nuages in a style reminiscent of Jimi.
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Opinions are one thing, but Hendrix was fairly late to the game as far as psychedelic music goes. By the time he made his mark, what we think of as psychedelia was a couple of years deep. Originally Posted by Steven Herron
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i don't agree. Electric Ladyland and cry of love are masterpieces and still hold up 50+ years later. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Well, you're disagreeing with a point I'm not making. I'm just saying something like say, 'Axis' sounds like a record made in the late 60's/early 70's. Originally Posted by jzucker
It holds up just fine.
To me, Gypsies is harder to place an era on...Jimi''s after some sounds on Machine gun that wouldn't be out of place on a Sonic Youth record...
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There was some mention of Hendrix and Miles Davis a while back. Yesterday Prelude Part 2 of Agharta came up on my playlist. It was interesting to hear Pete Cosey on that track and think about Hendrix and Davis. I am not sure that Hendrix could have done anything better than Cosey did, but it seems like the two might have been interchangeable for that track at least. Kinda makes me think that Davis would have wanted to go in a very different direction with Hendrix since Cosey seemed almost like a Hendrix stand in.
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Taking down the decorations today while listening to Hendrix. Some thoughts:
(1) damn fine stuff;
(2) there was assuredly Telecaster on a couple of cuts on Are You Experienced;
(3) I clearly recall how much I felt this made psychedelic rock sound corny when this came out.
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First time I ever heard the word psychedelic was in response to a song called Psychotic Reaction. That was 66. Originally Posted by customxke
Hendrix's first album was 67.
I guess you might call the Byrds Mr Tambourine man psychedelic, maybe. That was 65.
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Early Jefferson Airplaine was psychedelic, too. Don't forget The Beatles--Rubble Soul/Revolver/Sgt Pepper's. Quicksilver Messenger Service. And, there was a LOT of psychedelic pop music going on.
It all went into Hendrix's horn and came out something else, it seems to me. Almost all of the other "psychedelic" guitarists, for example, sounded like the "bag of bees" that originated with '2000 pound bee' by The Ventures and their use of fuzz. Even though Hendrix used effects (Dallas Arbiter fuzz), his tone didn't sound like a fuzz box/bag of bees. His overdrive sounded much more like Marshall/Fender amp power-tube stage overdrive than just slam the preamp with tons of signal. Same thing with Clapton.
By comparison, Beck's venture into psychedelia--Heart Full of Soul--is very fuzz boxy/bag of bees--very 1965.
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I dunno, so does kind of blue... Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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When this thread first started my first thought was, what is it doing here.............this is a jazz forum and these are rockin bluesy styles.........and then I thought why only 3? (now 4) but if you want an answer to the O.P. Neither.....it has to be Gilmour. However like many others in all styles most are brilliant in their own style and cannot be compared.
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It's a shame, from both a human and musical perspective, that we didn't get to see/hear Hendrix mature as a musician. He was getting better and better. I like to think he would've made some great modern jazz/funk. But ya never know - for example, if he lived and, instead, Clapton died in 1970, maybe we'd be bashing the boring rehash that Hendrix became and mourning all the great music that EC never got to make.
Of the 3 still living:
Beck is the best guitarist - innovative and vocal playing, but he has only written a couple of songs in his entire career. I could listen to Blow by Blow all day long.
Page the best songwriter and producer, but also the most inconsistent as a player - I dunno if it's because of substance abuse, but he could be soooo sloppy, with very awkward phrasing. But when he's focused, he smokes.
Clapton - I have sort of a love/hate relationship with him. I love his voice. Guitar playing has been pretty routine for a long time. Someone mentioned liking his Robert Johnson tribute record - I was very disappointed in it. I thought he sucked the soul out of those songs.
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I have records, many records, by all four. But I never say "Alexa play me some Eric Clapton" (or Jeff Beck, Or Jimmy Page). The only one that Alexa has ever been asked for by me is Jimi Hendrix. So with zero analysis, other than which one I still listen to, it's Jimi.
All that said, Alexa tends to get asked for Barney Kessel and Charlie Christian and Django Reinhardt more.
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Hendrix-Innovator and icon. Discussed to death, but he changed the landscape, so...it's earned.
Beck-Guitar icon. Do love the early stuff, but Blow by Blow, Wired, & There & Back...those are the reason I became a guitarist (interesting that folks tent to fall into the two different Beck camps...the pure-ists and fusion-ists). I will say that when he plays live...sounds like he's got a plane to catch. A lot of rushing through songs and chopping off notes. Exactly the opposite of what I loved about his studio work, which is beyond tasty. Don't care for the techno stuff, but respect that he doesn't get stagnant. For whatever it's worth, most of the guys I dig in jazz and fusion like all of these guys but think Jimi and JB are the s**t. I do too.
Page-Rock icon. Zeppelin is my definition of "classic rock." As much the other guys in the band as JP, but Zep and Floyd are the official soundtrack of the 70's.
Clapton-Pop icon. Once a rocker...back in the day. He's a smooth professional. Plays nice...and safe. To me that's boring. Has created some insanely good music in his career, but as a guitarist...doesn't challenge my ear. I respect him, but I don't listen to him.
Whoever said Gilmour...I'm with you...he's right up there with Jimi and JB IMO. He wasn't in the Yardbirds and he wasn't Jimi, so...guess he doesn't fit the thread
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Why has no one mentioned STEVE MORSE!?!?!
He's better than any those guys.
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He's subbing Ritchie Blackmore in Deep Purple, so I guess he's somehow could be relevant to this thread... Otherwise wtf SM has to do with anything?? Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
Speaking of Ritchie, he should be on the list- Page vs Hendrix vs Beck vs Clapton vs Blackmore- it does make sense!
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Might be because he is hard to look at - spandex and all. Just saying. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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Cuz it's a thread about four specific guys...one of which is not Steve. Otherwise...how about a hundred others?
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