Acoustic 7 strings: Eastman, Moll and Bourgeois?

[Dr_turkey]

I'm looking for a 7 string jazz guitar and it's proving difficult to find examples of them being played acoustically, but it's very important that whatever I get is built as an acoustic instrument first since that's my primary way of playing. Does anybody have experience with any of these? I'm leaning towards this Moll because I'm a John Pizzarelli fan and it's exactly what I want aesthetically. Is that a fair price?

There's also this Bourgeois which I have a hunch will have more of a Gibson sound?

I doubt anybody would've tried these exact models but maybe some of you have played the 6 string versions and can compare their acoustic sounds? Thanks!

[richpiv]

Guitars n Jazz has a carved Dale Unger American Legend for $4,000. These seem to be more of the Benedetto sound, and I think a good representation would be any You Tube video of Ed Laub playing with Bucky Pizzarelli. I believe it would give you a good acoustic and amplified tone.

[Dr_turkey]

Good looking out! Weird I couldn't find it until putting it in the search bar. I can't find any acoustic clips of it though I'll look more when I'm at a computer.

[Jabberwocky]

Here are what Joe Vinikow of archtop.com: Fine Vintage Instruments Online has in the shop:

2004 Dale Unger American Archtop 7 String, sunburst, comfy feedback resistant 16" slimline body, 2 1/16" ebony fingerboard, sweet has arrived

2004 Dale Unger American Dream 7 String, sunburst, 17" body, 2" nut, built-in Armstrong PAF, feedback resistant laminate body, best buy has arrived

[floatingpickup]

Guitars n Jazz has a carved Dale Unger American Legend for $4,000. These seem to be more of the Benedetto sound, and I think a good representation would be any You Tube video of Ed Laub playing with Bucky Pizzarelli. I believe it would give you a good acoustic and amplified tone.

I have a 7 String Unger American Legend (solid carved top). It is an excellent acoustic guitar with decent volume and a great tone. It also has a floating pickup with volume and tone controls and it sounds fantastic plugged in. I agree that they are very similar to a Benedetto, since Dale worked with Bob back in time and uses Benedetto’s design. I previously owned a laminated version (American Dream). It was a nice guitar, but more of an electric. Dale’s workmanship is as good as it gets.
Keith

[Woody Sound]

Here's a cool Foster 15" 7, if you're into slightly smaller guitars (as I am). But maybe it's a bit more "electric" than you want.

2005 Foster Basin Street Seven String

[Woody Sound]

Here are what Joe Vinikow of archtop.com: Fine Vintage Instruments Online has in the shop:

2004 Dale Unger American Archtop 7 String, sunburst, comfy feedback resistant 16" slimline body, 2 1/16" ebony fingerboard, sweet has arrived

2004 Dale Unger American Dream 7 String, sunburst, 17" body, 2" nut, built-in Armstrong PAF, feedback resistant laminate body, best buy has arrived

Also this one:

2001 Nickerson Virtuoso 7 String, sunburst, all carved 17" Venetian cutaway body, Benedetto S-7 floating humbucker, great shape has arrived

[Woody Sound]

FWIW, if you can afford it, the Moll would be an awesome acquisition.

[Dr_turkey]

FWIW, if you can afford it, the Moll would be an awesome acquisition.

I agree, it'd be my most valuable luxury if I bought it, I just want to make sure I'm not over paying. The fact it's been there over a year is a head scratcher

Those American legend guitars are really nice too, I think a 16" might be more of what I'm looking for though. My standard for acoustic archtops is the Gibson l5 though I mostly know them in the context of Johnathon Stout playing them and I'm definitely not him.

Jabberwocky, if it's not too much trouble, do you think you could record a short acoustic demo of your Unger?

[Woody Sound]

I agree, it'd be my most valuable luxury if I bought it, I just want to make sure I'm not over paying. The fact it's been there over a year is a head scratcher

Those American legend guitars are really nice too, I think a 16" might be more of what I'm looking for though. My standard for acoustic archtops is the Gibson l5 though I mostly know them in the context of Johnathon Stout playing them and I'm definitely not him.

Jabberwocky, if it's not too much trouble, do you think you could record a short acoustic demo of your Unger?

A 16" Moll 7 is not something that comes around often. The limited demand for high-priced 16" 7's is probably why it's not moving.

[Jabberwocky]

...Jabberwocky, if it's not too much trouble, do you think you could record a short acoustic demo of your Unger?

Love to help ya, mate but that is Floatingpickup's port of call. He is a far better player than I can ever hope to be. I don't have an Unger.

I agree with Woody Sound that the Bill Moll would be my first choice but, uh, 7-strings are an acquired taste and kinda hard to move on the used market. And, two, for the asking price of that Bill Moll, a brand-new custom Bill Comins 7-string is not far off. Steve Herberman plays a Bill Comins 7-string Concert Classic.

[floatingpickup]

Love to help ya, mate but that is Floatingpickup's port of call. He is a far better player than I can ever hope to be. I don't have an Unger.

I agree with Woody Sound that the Bill Moll would be my first choice but, uh, 7-strings are an acquired taste and kinda hard to move on the used market. And, two, for the asking price of that Bill Moll, a brand-new custom Bill Comins 7-string is not far off. Steve Herberman plays a Bill Comins 7-string Concert Classic.

Jabberwocky: thanks for the compliment! I’m working on a video.
Keith

[Dr_turkey]

Love to help ya, mate but that is Floatingpickup's port of call. He is a far better player than I can ever hope to be. I don't have an Unger.

I agree with Woody Sound that the Bill Moll would be my first choice but, uh, 7-strings are an acquired taste and kinda hard to move on the used market. And, two, for the asking price of that Bill Moll, a brand-new custom Bill Comins 7-string is not far off. Steve Herberman plays a Bill Comins 7-string Concert Classic.

Oh that was some brain fart on my part. True that extended ranges are pretty hard to sell, something I'll certainly have to keep in mind before buying something expensive

Jabberwocky: thanks for the compliment! I’m working on a video.
Keith

I appreciate it!

[floatingpickup]

Dr. Turkey:
Here’s a short video clip. I decided to compare the Unger to my 1963 Gibson L5C, so you have a reference point. I played basically the same thing on both guitars. They are played totally acoustic and have the same strings on them (THOMASTIK flatwounds). I tried to demonstrate chords, single notes, rhythm, etc. on both guitars. I just recorded with an iPad, so the sound is not perfect, but it gives you an idea. The Unger is warm, the L5 is bright. I hope this helps.
Keith

[Dr_turkey]

Thank you, that was a great video. It's close but I slightly prefer latter. I'll probably be a month before making my decision

[floatingpickup]

Thank you, that was a great video. It's close but I slightly prefer latter. I'll probably be a month before making my decision

Do you mean you prefer the sound of the Gibson? I have found many of the modern archtops seem warmer and more mid-range compared to vintage Gibsons. All of my Gibsons have been brighter than my modern archtops. Part of that may be the parallel bracing, but my Campellone is parallel braced and still sounds warmer than the Gibsons. I think the bright guitars would cut through a big band better. I like both sounds in different ways.
Keith

[Dr_turkey]

Yeah I like that brighter sound. Though I'm wondering if a larger body won't be better when the 7th string comes into play.

This option just popped up recently:
c.2003 Devoe 18 Seven String: Warm Voice, Best Buy! | Reverb

and I'm really considering it now. The price tag is interesting too

[deacon Mark]

Well I am going to try and talk you out of it unless you have played 7 string guitar for a long time. I had Bill Barker make me a beautifull 18 inch 7 string. I sure wish I had had him make he a regular 6. He made it for me in 1985 and I played it till around 1992ish. It had sound but frankly for me the low A never on any 7 string I have played has enough tension to really stand out acoustically. I had a pickup on mine a Dearmond but after giving it a really go I decided to stop playing the 7. I traded the guitar to Scott Chinary for a D'angelico Style B in a great deal for me for sure.

I guess I decided that frankly the best 7 string players never had me like the best chord melody 6 stringers. I alway preferred Lenny Breau when he played the 6 string although he used a high A. My favorite 7 string players are Ron Eschete and the late Jimmy Foster. I still prefer Ron on the 6 string but Jimmy Foster could make his 7 sound good and swing cool. In the end 6 strings are all I need and to me sound and work better.

Probably not anything you want to hear about.

[floatingpickup]

Well I am going to try and talk you out of it unless you have played 7 string guitar for a long time. I had Bill Barker make me a beautifull 18 inch 7 string. I sure wish I had had him make he a regular 6. He made it for me in 1985 and I played it till around 1992ish. It had sound but frankly for me the low A never on any 7 string I have played has enough tension to really stand out acoustically. I had a pickup on mine a Dearmond but after giving it a really go I decided to stop playing the 7. I traded the guitar to Scott Chinary for a D'angelico Style B in a great deal for me for sure.

I guess I decided that frankly the best 7 string players never had me like the best chord melody 6 stringers. I alway preferred Lenny Breau when he played the 6 string although he used a high A. My favorite 7 string players are Ron Eschete and the late Jimmy Foster. I still prefer Ron on the 6 string but Jimmy Foster could make his 7 sound good and swing cool. In the end 6 strings are all I need and to me sound and work better.

Probably not anything you want to hear about.

I can relate to what Deacon Mark is saying. I know lots of guitarists who got into playing 7 String, but very few who actually stayed with it. It is a different animal, for sure. I got seriously into it many years ago and was fully committed to becoming a full-time 7 stringer. In order to become comfortable with it, I played 7 exclusively and nothing else for a few years. Eventually, I became frustrated and starting playing my regular six stringed guitars again. It felt liberating to go back to the guitars that felt so comfortable. I didn’t completely give up 7 but I play 6 most of the time these days. I play the 7 on some gigs, but it is more work and I feel that it limits me in ways. Certain chords are challenging, because you just don’t have enough fingers to deal with that extra string.

I knew Lenny in the old days when he lived in Toronto and played his crazy Baldwin 6 String and Ramirez Flamenco. I loved his playing then. He was experimenting with different ways of adding a higher register back then, customizing some other instruments he had. Eventually, he went to the 7 with a high A. He mastered that instrument too but I don’t think it was necessary, as he seemed able to play anything with 6 strings.

Anyway, it’s a tough decision and requires a major commitment.

Keith

[sgosnell]

My method of dealing with the extra string on difficult chords is to ignore it. Just because you have a 7th string doesn't mean you have to use if all the time, or even much of the time. I bought a cheap solid-body 7-string to try to learn on, and it's ok for solo playing, but if there is another instrument playing in the bass register, (bass, piano, whatever) it's less useful, IMO. I haven't played the 7-string in a long time, mostly because in the end, it's still a cheap solid-body guitar, although it's one of the nicest-playing guitars I've ever had my hands on, orders of magnitude better than I expected. It's a DeArmond made in Indonesia, SG copy, bought as a Stupid Deal of the Day on a whim. Worth more than I paid, but not worth trying to sell and ship.

[deacon Mark]

If i am really playing complex things and simply not using the 7th, then for me i had to get rid of it. The 7th string almost became a distraction. I think if you play a 7 you basically have give up on the 6. I just never heard the clear and present low A. It is muddy most of the time.

The anology I use is that some running shoes look cool and you think i am going to put them on and run easier and faster. Then you go to the pair of shoes that you know work and how they feel, and say wow those new design shoes were not what I expected.

[floatingpickup]

My method of dealing with the extra string on difficult chords is to ignore it. Just because you have a 7th string doesn't mean you have to use if all the time, or even much of the time. I bought a cheap solid-body 7-string to try to learn on, and it's ok for solo playing, but if there is another instrument playing in the bass register, (bass, piano, whatever) it's less useful, IMO. I haven't played the 7-string in a long time, mostly because in the end, it's still a cheap solid-body guitar, although it's one of the nicest-playing guitars I've ever had my hands on, orders of magnitude better than I expected. It's a DeArmond made in Indonesia, SG copy, bought as a Stupid Deal of the Day on a whim. Worth more than I paid, but not worth trying to sell and ship.

Sure, you can ignore the 7th string much of the time but not always. For example:

You can’t really use your left thumb to fret a note on the sixth string when that low A is in the way. I find that prevents me from using some of the chord shapes that I like.

I find that in order to play “Freddie Green” Style rhythm, I have to either use the 7th string in the chord or try to mute it, which is not always easy to do. It’s hard to strum freely with your right hand if you have to avoid hitting the bottom string.

When you use the low A string for chords (which is the whole reason for having it) you still have six more strings to deal with and only four fingers (or five fingers if you are able to use your thumb on the 7th string). As a result, there are certain chords I just can’t use when I’m on 7 string.

These are things I was thinking about when I said I feel that it limits what I can do to a certain extent. Of course, it adds some great things to your toolkit that you can’t do with a 6 string, but I find I have to think of it a as a different instrument. I’m not against 7 string, in fact I embrace it and always use it it for certain types of gigs. I am just saying it’s a lot of work and very few people seem to stay with it forever.

Keith

[sgosnell]

I don't disagree with you, I just meant that my method was to ignore it much of the time. My method is not necessarily the best, or even a good, one. And I also gave up on the 7-string. It was fun to experiment with, but I'm not convinced that another string is worth having, thus the DeArmond lives in the closet.

[floatingpickup]

I don't disagree with you, I just meant that my method was to ignore it much of the time. My method is not necessarily the best, or even a good, one. And I also gave up on the 7-string. It was fun to experiment with, but I'm not convinced that another string is worth having, thus the DeArmond lives in the closet.

I didn’t mean to sound argumentative; I just wanted to explain some of the challenges that I have run into with the 7 string. It certainly isn’t for everyone and that is evident by how many of us try it and end up going back to 6. I have a love/hate relationship with the 7 string so I haven’t quite given it up, but I certainly won’t be retiring my 6 stringed guitars any time soon.
Keith

[sgosnell]

No, I didn't take any of it as argumentative. Just slightly different perspectives, and of course everyone's perspective is unique. There is no doubt your experiences are far deeper than mine, and I wouldn't think of questioning your judgement or experience.