The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #126
    So in further cleaning up my L4, I decided to take the pick guard off. It was indeed splotches of glue on the edge, and all kinds of it on the back side, obviously from how the white/black binding was applied to the tortoise shell. Very dissapointing. I took some 3M 1000 and 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper and smoothed out the glue splotch, nice and clean now, baby butt smooth. Now to vacuum out the golden retriever hair...

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  3. #127

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    Truss Rods are great things but they are not like guitar machine heads made to be turned all the time. A well made neck should not really do any moving after it is made and set up for maybe 3-4 months. If you drastically change string gauge then they might need a turn of some sort. I personally was taught by archtop guitar makers about truss rods. Here is a situation that should remain constant generally.

    If you take all the string off the guitar to change them at once when you put them back on the guitar without doing anything to the truss rod then the guitar should go back to is "set point." If you take the strings off the guitar for a longer period of time maybe a week and then string it again, it should return to set point. The longer the strings are off the guitar generally the farther away from "set point" you get but it is completely normal for this to never really change on a stable guitar if the strings are off the guitar for months.

    The main reason I never adjust the truss rod with tension is that you have 2 opposing forces working in the opposite direct. Realizing that guitars are built this way it is true they can be adjusted with tension and 9 times of 10 you are probably fine. By why take really any risk. We know the limits of many things but no need to go where not necessary. The fact is most guitars are not nearly as fragile as some think and truss rods will take a lot of abuse believe me I have seen this as they are brought in the shop. If you adjust the tension of the rod to tighter with no tension on the neck and you over shot the mark, then that is easy just back the tension off under tension. No opposing forces are at work.

    One thing I do all the time even if I think it really is not needed. If I see a neck that has large amount of relief I will put in in my neck jig and put the neck to the proper amount of relief without even turning the truss rod. This then allows me to simply snug the rod to where it needs to be instead of force. The analogy is the truss rod acts as a set point just like you are winding strings on a tuner. In fact I have been know to remove all the tension from a truss rod to see where the neck goes under no stress. Then using the neck jig I will even over compensate and put a concave bow in the neck. Then tighten the rod and see what I get. In effect this allows for a new "set point. Naturally for a two way truss rod this does not work.

    The way to look at this is simply like detuning your strings. The worm gear changes when you take all the tension off the machine head and rewind. A string that is fully stretch and broken in and bought up to pitch and all the slack pulled out of the tuner will hold proper pitch much longer.

    I just wanted to clarify why I do not advocate adjusting truss rods with strings a tension. I know some very big and important luthiers who disagree with this but everyone has do what they think is best for the patient. I know Bill Barker would get pretty irritated at guys fooling around with the truss rod like is was a cure all for action and how the guitar played. I say this because he said a broken truss rod was not worth any effort large or small a person put into breaking the rod.

  4. #128
    After further cleaning and polishing the pick guard glue splotches, I decided to do the truss rod. The truss rod cover was stubborn, seemed glued on, but popped off with some gentle prying with a pick. Didn't have a key supplied bought it 2nd hand, but my recent purchased Gretsch had the proper fit key, I loosened the strings and did a 1/4 turn, which was very smooth, no creaks or noises. Seems all is where things ought to be. Sure would like to talk to that Mr. Hutchins about that glue slop....

  5. #129
    When putting back the pick guard, I always had the problem of the lower end slapping against the bridge pup plastic case. I used a small felt furniture pad, about 3/4" cut in half in between to touch the pg and pup case. Otherwise it flopped free in the air about a 1/4" and would click on the pup case when I palmed it. Anybody else had that problem?

  6. #130
    Thought I share what this beautiful guitar sounds like through an old polytone 212....

    The Flat Tones.mp3 - Google Drive

    Sam from Austin

  7. #131

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    Wanna lubricate the truss rod?

    Vaseline.

    /thread


  8. #132

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    I don't trust the in case just ad water humidifiers. What an opportunity for disaster, IMHO. Also, Looks like you've gotten good advice. Especially, don't panic. It will be ok, and, if you do decide to turn the truss rod nut, easy does it. A quarter turn all at once would be extreme. Also, give the guitar time to adjust before checking and readjusting. Relax.

    Think about getting a room humidifier, and putting it in a small room where you (can) keep your guitars. A room that you can isolate by closing doors. It would help.

  9. #133
    I've used Vaseline for years, with or without pencil filings for the nut, but you're gonna laugh. What I use these days is a little swab of "Chapstick". seems to lube well and stays in place much longer. Great on lips as well....

  10. #134
    Not a big fan of the dampit. I usually find it bone dry. I have a Honeywell humidifier running now. I Did give the L4 a 1/4 turn the other day and lowered bridge, all is now well. Thanks.

  11. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Samborsky
    I've used Vaseline for years, with or without pencil filings for the nut, but you're gonna laugh. What I use these days is a little swab of "Chapstick". seems to lube well and stays in place much longer. Great on lips as well....
    Definitely go with chapstick over Vaseline - much like prefering the Stewmac (absurdly expensive, but a tiny amount is a huge supply) guitar grease vs. a petroleum grease.

    Sounds like things are calming down with your L4, great news.

  12. #136

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    The previous owner bought it and either broke the headstock or bought it after the accident. There was a visible line down the treble side. Also... somewhere in the history of the guitar an owner also added a Bigsby. So I had to address both issues. The guitar was sitting in a pawn shop that was going out of business and they were willing to be flexible. I bought it for around $1500 and set about fixing stuff. I gave it to a renowned Luthier here in Middle Georgia (Tom Dodson) and he set the headstock straight. He replaced the tuning pegs with Vintage style Klusons and gave it a setup. The guitar plays like a dream if you want a rockabilly guitar that screams with 10s. (And with a Bigsby through a Super Deluxe.) But I think this is a Jazz guitar and I'd like to find a decent tailpiece for it. Does anyone have any ideas ?? I read once that Gibson would replace the tailpiece for a thousand dollars if I mailed the guitar to to the custom shop. Ha, Ha.

  13. #137

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    Steve Holst makes solid wood tailpieces (cocobolo or macassar ebony) with solid brass brackets for $120 or so. They give your L4CES a D'Aquisto look. Steve could even make a T-style, if you ask him.

    Otherwise, the ES-175 style 3-rhomboids T-bar or zigzag-wire tailpiece would have to do. Genuine L5-style tailpieces don't come cheaply.

  14. #138

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    BeBog,

    I have a blank (so no laminated wood “badge”) L4-CES tailpiece here.

    It has the unfortunately typical extremely thin gold from Gibson in the mid 2,000’s so is a very pale gold overall and nearly through to the nickel plating in places.

    This all from a tailpiece that was on a guitar for only a while at a dealer.

    Anyway, if you are very serious about getting a stock tailpiece and can get some one to make the ebony-faced badge for the front, it will cost FAR less than $1,000.

    PM only if serious, and can get a badge made. Not interested in making a badge here.

  15. #139

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    Thanks all for the input. I'll probably go the ES175 tailpiece route. If it weren't for the broken headstock, I'd worry about making it all correct but as it is, I just want it set up properly and playing like a true jazz guitar. Bebog

  16. #140
    The family heirloom.... But afraid to take it out of the case, been dropping things lately. Over 8$ k Canadian these days... 120$ plus tax to replace those tuners. Hard when all you have is an 80$ give lined up...

    Here is what it sounds like, in my humble hands...

    Crystal Silence.mp3 - Google Drive

  17. #141
    Just wanted to thank everyone again for their comments and advice. Its been almost a year since I posted and thought I should say that my 2007 L4 CES is playing perfectly, in the dead of winter. I have installed a room humidifier, bought a set of feeler gauges and mechanics ruler. Neck and 13-56 Chromes set at near factory specs. The problem I had was I thought it was neck relief originally, but it turns out it was my wound G string had a strange "nasal" choking tone, unlike the rest of the strings.

    The problem was my neck pickup was too high. Just by lowering a mm or 2, that tone problem fully resolved, Guess those magnets were pulling the G string . Weird..but happy.

  18. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M
    I had a 2001 that was maple.
    I'm surprised that a maple back on an L-4 CES, instead of solid mahogany, is a laminate. Is this correct?

  19. #143

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    John Samborsky's issue, pickup too high pulled strings, is common--especially on Fenders moreso than Gibsons. Those pole pieces will really pull the strings and choke them. With Fenders it can be so pronounced it pulls the note sharp.

  20. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    John Samborsky's issue, pickup too high pulled strings, is common--especially on Fenders moreso than Gibsons. Those pole pieces will really pull the strings and choke them. With Fenders it can be so pronounced it pulls the note sharp.
    Greentone, the magnetism? Never thought about that, but my '55 175 P90's should come with a warning to people with pacemakers too! Man, are they strong.

  21. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by tomvwash
    I'm surprised that a maple back on an L-4 CES, instead of solid mahogany, is a laminate. Is this correct?
    yes I believe they’re commonplace. I’m sure someone here will advise when the laminate back for maple on L4’s came in vogue.

  22. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by skykomishone
    Greentone, the magnetism? Never thought about that, but my '55 175 P90's should come with a warning to people with pacemakers too! Man, are they strong.
    Yes. The pole pieces on Gibson pickups sit atop bar magnets. On Fenders the pole pieces are themselves magnets. They exert significant force on the strings and need to be kept a reasonable distance from them for optimum performance.

  23. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomvwash
    I'm surprised that a maple back on an L-4 CES, instead of solid mahogany, is a laminate. Is this correct?
    The 1994 Historic catalog shows the L-4CES as having laminated maple sides and backs. The version with mahogany back & rims was all solid.

    Danny W.

  24. #148

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    The L-4 CES is the last guitar on my bucket list. It was the first Gibson guitar I ever played (back in 1976)and I fell in love with it. It was wine red and, me at 13 years old, I dreamed about that guitar instead of girls.

    In the many years since then, I’ve owned dozens of guitars and amps as a working musician playing hundreds of gigs. In my older years, I play for enjoyment. As money has allowed (been careful and sold off most of my gear) I’ve focused on finding my 3 personal ‘dream’ guitars (L-5 CES, L-4 CES, ES-175). I made my list 7 years ago, but last year this forum taught me about the Tal Farlow model so that got added to the list making it 4.

    Like many of us, I have had to be focused and disciplined in saving up and selling off in order to fund these purchases. And, I admit to occasional bouts of GAS still, but it feels good to have made a goal and seen it through to near completion. I’ve owned many 175s over the years, but the one I kept is the best one. My L-5 is alive and dreamy sounding. My Tal is even better than my beloved 175. I hope I’ll find an L-4 CES I’ll like as much. It’s only fitting that the last archtop to complete the list be the first archtop I played as a kid. I’m keeping my eyes open!

    Have a great week my friends!

    Roli

  25. #149

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    Roli,
    How are you buddy.
    Its funny, the guitars you plan on ending up with are exactly the guitars I want to end up with, only exception being the 175 which I will be happy with my floater 165 in its place.
    Your list is the THE list. A dream for any Guitar Aficionado who favors Gibson's over all else.
    You are my kinda guy!
    I've never played an L4, but we have a mutual dear friend who can be helpful with this one.
    Joe D

  26. #150

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    Robert when you are ready for a great mint VSB L4CES Mahogany email me. I will mail you those tubes in a couple days.