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Thanks for the replies! I had asked about the pickguard and it's missing for as-yet-unexplained reasons. I suspect it was removed due to disintegration, but I might go and have a look at it (given it is so close) and see if there are any other signs of damage. I has also heard they can be difficult to replace. Also, thanks for the tip on the case!
Just on the ongoing value of these guitars, I am buying something to play (at home) but also hoping for an instrument that will at least hold its value or possibly appreciate over years. I know it's a bit like predicting the lottery numbers, but would welcome any opinions on whether the L4-CES is a model that us considered "desirable" and likely to stay that way.
It 's hard to get a feel for these things as a relative novice, because it seems like some less-well-made models fare well due to limited production numbers or they have something unique, whereas reading about the L4-CES, it seems the manufacturing quality was quite high, but prices don't seem crazy (yet?).
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07-31-2021 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dmorash
Sounds great! What are those humbuckers?
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I'm looking at a 2010 solid mahogany back in natural / blonde and probably can't get much lower than $6800 after taxes and shipping. Is this too high a price for a L-4 CES in excellent condition?
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Way too much. Be patient and they come up for $3.5-4.5k. There's lots of speculation and price volatility lately, but I wouldn't pay anywhere near $6800. Originally Posted by tomvwash
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Sounds great! I wonder what pickup you have in the neck position? Originally Posted by Fred Archtop
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Do black mahogany L-4's have a mahogany top as well?
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No. They have a spruce top. Originally Posted by Djangorocks1
Do black mahogany L-4's have a mahogany top as well?
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I ask, because that grain looks very much like that on top of my former R4 Les Paul Custom all mahogany.
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Hello folks,
I'm new on this forum and hope to get some info about my L4:
Recently i bought this lovely Gibson L4. Yesterday I noticed that the neck-pickup is not in line with the strings. See picture, the '5th and 6th string poles' ar out of line.
The shop owner told me that the bridge-pickup is not original, it is from another brand. I didn't check it myself, but I trusted the shop owner. Now I don't know what to think about the originality of both pickups. (i didn't inspect them myself yet)
Any info welcome, thanks!
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Hi - just purchased a 1989 James Hutchins signed L-4 CES with a 24.5" scale. Yeah, realize a 1/4" difference is not that big, but as a boomer with hand mobility challenges it allows me to play some basic chords I could not with 24.75". (Had a 23.5" Byrdland but that was too cramped so have been mostly playing 24" Jaguars.) Based on Google searches seems there were possibly just a handful from 1989 with this shorter scale(?) Anyone know more about these guitars or any other Gibson archtops with 24" - 24.5" scales?
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That isn’t a Gibson sadddle in the picture, so I would guess that the string spacing at the saddle is too narrow. You could either put a Gibson saddle on it (it would have come with a tune-o-matic) or re-cut the grooves on your saddle to the proper spacing. Once you have done that, hopefully you can adjust the position of the bridge to align with the pickup poles.
Keith
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A few things:
Gibson-style humbuckers come with the spread of the pole pieces available in several widths.
These include:
-"narrow width", best used for the neck position of the Byrdland and ES-350T;
-standard Gibson width;
-slight variations from other makers;
-"trem-bucker" width, which is wider, matched to the string spread at the bridge position of Fender strat, tele, and jazzmaster styles of plank guitar.
Even with the adjustments suggested by Keith, above, it appears that your neck pickup pole spacing may be on the wide end of the scale. I suggest measuring it and comparing it the that of your bridge pickup - one possible and easy adjustment might be to simply swap their positions if the bridge pickup pole spacing is tighter.
If, after all of the various adjustments, the spacing still looks off, you could always fit a narrow-spaced humbucker onto the guitar at the neck position. Easy to sell off the extra pickup to offset the cost of a narrower one.
Even with a slightly off alignment, the magnetic field that's generated by the vibrating strings is diffuse enough in the neck position so that it should not affect the overall sound once these adjustments are made.
Lastly, our friends at Gibson have never been super-precise about the exact location of the pickup holes routed into the tops of their archtops, or the exact side-to-side placement of their pickup rings. The same goes for precise side-to-side location of their tailpieces. I've relocated tailpieces on several high-end Gibson archtops over the years.
Your guitar's neck pickup ring is clearly offset a bit to the bass side, which moves the pickup itself over to the bass side a bit - clearly visible if you compare where the two outer pole pieces sit with relation to the edges of the fretboard. I wouldn't bother repositioning it until after trying some of the remedies mentioned, and only if it really bothers you. It would require pushing the ring over to the treble side a bit and drilling four new, small screw holes into the top to secure it. The old tiny screwholes could easily be filled, and would be hidden by the plastic pickup ring. Relocation might possibly involve slight alteration of the pickup hole on the treble side if clearance is an issue. This would allow for better alignment of the neck pickup under the strings.
This work can easily be done by any competent guitar tech - it's all dead easy stuff for those who know what they are doing.
Last edited by Hammertone; 01-08-2024 at 11:27 PM.
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Hi Floatingpickup,
Thanks, good advice, will try that!
Thing is that the strings do run well over the neck, so the bridge spacing is good.
I'm afraid the pickup itself has been swapped for one that's too big.. I'm going back to the store where I bought. Feels like a scam
Greets!
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Hammertone and Floatingpickup are both right and astute. I'd add that an L-4CES should have goldplated humbucker covers. Yours, Woody Leg, have been swapped for something else. The other thing is this: the pole spacing is identical in Gibson neck and bridge humbuckers. The string will align with the poles of the bridge humbucker but over the neck, yes, the bass strings will align with the inside edge of the poles and not with the centre. So, the strings do tend to look skewed towards the inside of the bass pole pieces. Your neck humbucker though appears to be one with the 53mm Fender bridge spacing. Gibson standard spacing is 50mm, centre to centre. Easily measured with a machinist ruler.
The L-4CES came stock with Classic 57 humbuckers: Access to this page has been denied. .
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FYI, the nominal “24.75” scale length in nearly all Gibson electrics is actually 24-9/16" (with some variation within a narrow range). If Gibson actually labeled this guitar as 24.5” or listed that in a spec, that would be unusual. But if you measured it (by measuring the nut to 12th fret distance and doubling that) and found it to be about 24-1/2”, that would be normal; Gibson would call that 24-3/4” . Originally Posted by PhillyNash
This is a result of a quirk in the way Gibson calculates fret spacing. If you google “Gibson fret spacing" you can find tons of info and discussion of this. I have both a true 24-3/4” scale guitar and a 24-9/16" scale guitar. I don’t notice the difference in spacing, FWIW.Last edited by John A.; 01-17-2024 at 10:48 AM.
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The Rule of 18. The actual scale length is 24.594". Paul Reed Smith said so. Originally Posted by John A.
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don't roll your finger when pressing down on the fret, the feel could change in an instant.
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Thanks Jabberwocky!
Learned a lot today
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Thanks,
Today I unscrewed the pickups. I sadly discovered extra holes drilled, to mount the oversized neck pickup.
Saturday I'm going back to the shop... This don't feel good anymore.
Thanks everyone for helping me with the info!
I consider returning the guitar.
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Here's my 1949 Gibson L4C with a Lollar pickguard, (the first McCarty he sold I believe.).
With this setup there's no damage to the guitar and can be converted back to an acoustic.
Unfortunately, I never play it anymore, but it looks nice.
In 2009, I sent some pics of my guitar to Lollar and they posted one on their web page. See below:
Mccarty pickup | Lollar Pickups Blog
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Thanks much John A. and Jabberwocky! (Sheepishly I add Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Yep, did a bit of further digging and discovered prior posts on Rule of 18. More searching even found StewMac article discussing the variation of Gibson neck scale lengths and many actually measuring 24-9/16". Don't have digital caliper so my measurement could certainly be off by 1/16" -- but let's say my pinky would notice if it were additional +3/16" ... or my ear when I can't make the stretch!
In my defense, seems almost all more modern Gibson archtops specs on various sites are being listed as 24.75" (excluding those 25.5" and known outliers like 3/4 models, Byrdlands, Johnny Smiths, etc.) From now on if checking out guitars will be carrying a pick and a tape measure.
However, note this now archived circa 2010 Gibson L-4 CES Gibson website description lists the neck scale as 24-inch (which is probably a typo maybe indicative of Gibson QC around then?)
Last edited by PhillyNash; 01-20-2024 at 01:24 PM.
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I guess it could be the camera angle of the pic but the bridge looks off. The high E string seems to line up vertically with the inside edge of the treble side thumbwheel but the bass E's relationship with its' thumbwheel seems substantially different. As I say it could be distorted by the camera and I hope I'm wrong! Originally Posted by Woody Leg
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mid-ranginess?
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