half bone half brass nut

[rutledj]

What is the purpose of the half bone half brass nut on some Ibanez guitars? Does the string touch both for open strings or is just the brass nut in play? What benefits does it provide?

Thanks
Rut

[Gilpy]

In the 70s, when Ibanez came up with this, people were modifying their guitars by replacing the standard metal hardware and nuts with solid brass. The theory was that this would increase sustain and help the tone. (This was also the era of replacing PAF pickups with Dimarzio "Super Distortions". And businessmen wore long sideburns and big wide ties.)

The half brass nut was a marketing gimmick...."the sustain of brass, the warmth of bone". I never noticed any difference. Others may disagree.

[Woody Sound]

PT Barnum

[kris]

Ibanez sem9-hollow As-200 Scof model has this nut,,,,but not everyone.
Attachment 54679

[Ray175]

As an owner of two guitars with a half and half nut, I can say that the only real impact this seems to have is greater sustain on open strings - no effect on fretted notes, that I can hear.

[rutledj]

Seems like it would be a pain if you had to adjust the string slots in the nut.

[deacon Mark]

It is a gimmick for sure.

[edh]

Hey PT!! Nice to see you here again. Question...what would you rather have bone or brass?

thanks for your response
edh

[rio]

I have a half brass nut on my ‘77 2630 Artist (the granddad of the AS200) and I don’t notice any real difference from a good bone nut. It looks cool though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[sgosnell]

So in other words, it depends on one's priorities. Appearance or practicality. Me, I've always preferred function over style, in pretty much everything.

[consumerduck]

I’m just glad the days of gimmickry and everyone upgrading their stuff for the gear du jour are long over!

[Gitfiddler]

Interesting topic.

Gimmick or not, the great luthiers at Hoshino still go to the trouble of including the half bone half brass nut ONLY on the GB10/GB10SE and JSM100 models these days.

H

[sgosnell]

I hadn't seen (still haven't) those in person, nor in photos. That looks like a full-depth zero fret. As such, it should work very well.

[BigMikeinNJ]

I hadn't seen (still haven't) those in person, nor in photos. That looks like a full-depth zero fret. As such, it should work very well.

?That too was my understanding, a full depth Zero Fret... GB had a LOT to say on his original designs on the GB10, if Ibanez wanted him he had to have things a certain way. And he got what he wanted.

[sgosnell]

So how is it different from a zero fret, other than being taller and perhaps thicker? And with perhaps some slotting, which could also occur naturally, as with other fret wear.

[Gitfiddler]

So how is it different from a zero fret, other than being taller and perhaps thicker? And with perhaps some slotting, which could also occur naturally, as with other fret wear.

Here's an informative article from Premier Guitar:

String Nut or Zero Fret?

"In earlier centuries, acoustic guitar, mandolin, and lute production included a lot of local specialties that were handed down from generation to generation. Examples of this include a special bracing pattern or regional materials and woods that were incorporated only into local instruments.


The electric bass, being a very young instrument, grew up in “international” times. Parts, ideas, and solutions might originate in a specific geographical area, but once these were adopted, they were used everywhere in the world (patents excepted, of course). So it’s a bit surprising to stumble over something in guitar design that’s called European, or even more specifically, German: And that’s the zero fret.


Here’s a short rundown for those not yet familiar with zero-fret technology. A traditional string nut has several functions: It serves as one side of the bearing of the string. It also sets the height of the strings and aligns their spacing, and defines the end of the fretboard and anchors one point of its intonation.


A zero fret separates the business of spacing and height, so you end up with two parts instead of one. It is simply another fret positioned where a standard nut would be situated (Fig. 1). A second part—which almost looks like the original nut, but with deeper grooves—is placed behind the zero fret to align the strings. That’s it!


The zero fret takes care of the intonation and, more importantly, establishes the correct and minimal string height. There’s no better height than being identical to those other frets.


There’s some talk of a zero fret needing to be higher than the others, but that just doesn’t make any sense. If the following fret would need to be higher than the previous one, our fretboard would look like a set of stairs.


Historically, only a few U.S. instrument makers used a zero fret. And when the ’60s guitar boom hit, many of the cheaper instruments used a zero fret, so consequently the zero-fret concept was seen as a hallmark of budget guitars.


Generally, there shouldn’t be much difference in manufacturing costs. The zero fret requires two parts, while cutting four nut slots that consistently offer the correct height and spacing is costly in terms of time.


Of course, any nut can be set up for the same action and playability as a zero fret, but if you’ve ever slotted a nut you know how time-consuming it is to accurately set string height. Many nuts are left higher than necessary because shortly after being perfectly cut, the slots wear too low. If the nut is left too high, the intonation will also suffer because pressing down a string raises tension ... especially the closer you get to the nut—a bass player’s main moneymaking area.


So other than providing good, low action, what else does a zero fret offer? A classic 4-string bass with a nut and 21 frets gives you 88 notes—84 of which you access by holding the string against a polished nickel-silver fret. But the bass player’s favorite four notes are generated by running the string through a groove in a piece of plastic or a dead animal body part.


Why would anyone want these four notes to sound different? Yes, we know there has been a lot of great music played using bone or plastic nuts, but with all the lengthy debates about tone woods, the sonic qualities of different finishes, or even the brand of the battery in your active circuit affecting its sound, I can only hope your nut is at least made of very magical “tone bone.”


Now, let’s talk about friction. You’ll want the nut to have a minimum of sticking friction to achieve good, stable tuning. There is a technical factor for this. It is dimensionless, and the lower the value, the better for tuning. Steel-on-steel is around 0.15, while steel-on-synthetics is between 0.26–0.46. Assuming identical forces, the zero fret will put all down pressure on the slipperier contact of steel-on-steel.


One argument against the zero-fret concept has been fret wear, although this mainly comes from guitarists, saying the thinner strings cut little grooves into the zero fret, causing strange “pling” sounds if it pops out while you’re bending a string. Tell that to Brian May, who finally had the zero fret on his “Red Special” swapped after 40 years, while the rest of the frets had been replaced way more often. And you can’t say he didn’t use it.


Several luthiers make zero frets from stainless steel, perhaps simply to avoid the endless discussion. Fret wear mainly comes from friction, not contact. The zero fret wears much less than the other frets, as the string break point is basically motionless. Except for tuning, there is very little motion there!"

[D.G.]

I love a good zero fret! It's standard on gypsy guitars. I also have a GB 40thii and it has the half-n-half nut. Both the brass and the bone are slotted so it's not behaving as a zero fret. It does look cool though

[TH]

The reasoning behind these is simple. They work just fine. But they create a feature that makes one piece nuts look simply ordinary.
Some may say it takes genius to create the perception of superiority where there's no real advantage, but some would say it just takes brass nuts.

David

[Woody Sound]

The reasoning behind these is simple. They work just fine. But they create a feature that makes one piece nuts look simply ordinary.
Some may say it takes genius to create the perception of superiority where there's no real advantage, but some would say it just takes brass nuts.

David

Just like it takes leather balls to play rugby.

[Ray175]

In the same vein,when you hold a cricket ball in one hand and another cricket ball in the other hand, then you clearly have the undivided attention of a very large cricket......

Just like it takes leather balls to play rugby.