Volume control on Gibson ES-165

**Gertje** · 11-03-2009, 11:51 AM

The volume control of my Gibson ES165 is not responding like it should.
To set the volume from zero to maximum only the first 10% span of the potmeter is required. This makes it difficult to control the volume.
I use the guitar with an AER compact 60.
Does anybody know what could be the cause of this, or is this normal?
This guitar only has one pick up and volume control.
Could it be that a wrong potmeter is mounted?
How can I check this?

Thanks,
Gert

**derek** · 11-03-2009, 12:38 PM

Not sure about why your pot is acting up, but replacement pots around around $5 + install. I would find a good guitar tech and take it in if it were mine. What year is it? Good luck.

**dh82c** · 11-03-2009, 02:39 PM

funny thing. If the input and output on the pot are shorted out it will have this effect. Is this a new model with one vol on the pg or the older one with the controls top-mounted?

**randyc** · 11-03-2009, 03:20 PM

Gert: Just listened to "Up Jumped Spring". You and your companion sound GREAT !!! That's a nice sounding Gibson and I like the full range tone you're getting instead of the overly-bassy response that many favor. (As I recall listening to Van Epps years ago, your tone sounds similar to his.)

Thanks,
Randy

**Gertje** · 11-04-2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by randyc

Gert: Just listened to "Up Jumped Spring". You and your companion sound GREAT !!! That's a nice sounding Gibson and I like the full range tone you're getting instead of the overly-bassy response that many favor. (As I recall listening to Van Epps years ago, your tone sounds similar to his.)

Thank you for your nice compliment, however this was recorded with a Ibanez GB10, via an Aphex acousticXciter direct into the mixer.

About the volume control on the ES165, it is a model with a single floating neck pick up and one potmeter for volume control only.
Replacing the potmeter with the same type will not solve the problem, the guitar is rather new. I think a different potmeter value, might help. Question is then with what type should i replace it.

Thanks,
Gert

**dh82c** · 11-04-2009, 11:49 AM

Oh.. sorry. Ithought it was busted. What value pot is in there now?

**randyc** · 11-04-2009, 12:30 PM

Gert:

Well, the single pot situation definitely makes diagnosis simpler. But – and no offense intended – you’re going to have to put some work into this in order to get some reasonable answers from us. Presumably you won’t mind that … here are the possibilities as I see them:

The pot is bad – despite your protestations about this being a fairly new guitar – we must still consider this as a possibility.
The taper on the pot is logarithmic instead of linear.
I think Derek was alluding to the possibility of the pot being the wrong value, another possibillity.

In all of those cases, you’ll have to make measurements to determine the problem. Are you OK with doing a small amount of disassembly on the guitar (minor, just unscrewing and lifting the pickguard) and with spending a small amount of money on an inexpensive multi-meter (about the cost of a fast food meal) ?

Let me know before I spend a lot of time typing up a procedure that you may not want to do, OK ?

Randy

P.S. Yes, I suspected that you were going direct to the board, that’s the best way to get the full sound like yours (or Tuck Andress, to name another that people may know.)

**derek** · 11-04-2009, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by randyc

Gert:

Well, the single pot situation definitely makes diagnosis simpler. But – and no offense intended – you’re going to have to put some work into this in order to get some reasonable answers from us. Presumably you won’t mind that … here are the possibilities as I see them:

The pot is bad – despite your protestations about this being a fairly new guitar – we must still consider this as a possibility.
The taper on the pot is logarithmic instead of linear.
I think Derek was alluding to the possibility of the pot being the wrong value, another possibillity.

In all of those cases, you’ll have to make measurements to determine the problem. Are you OK with doing a small amount of disassembly on the guitar (minor, just unscrewing and lifting the pickguard) and with spending a small amount of money on an inexpensive multi-meter (about the cost of a fast food meal) ?

Let me know before I spend a lot of time typing up a procedure that you may not want to do, OK ?

Randy

P.S. Yes, I suspected that you were going direct to the board, that’s the best way to get the full sound like yours (or Tuck Andress, to name another that people may know.)

Actually, I wasn't trying to trouble shoot it at all. Beyond my knowledge. I just wanted to point out that pots are cheap and easily replaceable, so why futch with it at all? Just replace it and be done with it.

I am aware some dig the DIY sort of approach, so I will shut up now.

**randyc** · 11-04-2009, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by derek

Actually, I wasn't trying to trouble shoot it at all. Beyond my knowledge. I just wanted to point out that pots are cheap and easily replaceable, so why futch with it at all? Just replace it and be done with it.

I am aware some dig the DIY sort of approach, so I will shut up now.

Actually, your point makes a lot more sense than mine. After all, the object is to FIX the problem, not turn it into a master's thesis and THEN fix it.

When we hear back from Gert, if he wants, we can just walk him through a pot replacement scenario.

Thank you, Derek, for letting me see the problem more clearly !
Randy

**dh82c** · 11-04-2009, 03:22 PM

when he replied I think he was saying that there is nothing wrong with the pot.. he just doesnt like the taper.
That is where you get in to the preference for lin/log/300k/500k/1M and all the changes that that entails

**randyc** · 11-04-2009, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by dh82c

when he replied I think he was saying that there is nothing wrong with the pot.. he just doesnt like the taper.
That is where you get in to the preference for lin/log/300k/500k/1M and all the changes that that entails

Uh-huh, I think so, too. I'd be surprised if a linear 250k wouldn't work fine.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-04-2009, 04:06 PM

What's the standard? I thought it was:

Volume: log (audio) taper. SC=250K HB=500K
Tone: linear taper. I don't know the rating here.

**randyc** · 11-04-2009, 04:33 PM

If he wants to get a cheap ohmmeter and make a couple of measurements, we can readily determine whether he has either log or linear tapered pot and whether or not it's defective. I guess he'll tell us what he wants to do when he wakes

edit: I have no idea what the standard is for ES-165, he said that it had no tone control. Without the tone control, all bets are off regarding how the volume control reacts - they are closely inter-related, normally.

**derek** · 11-05-2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by randyc

If he wants to get a cheap ohmmeter and make a couple of measurements, we can readily determine whether he has either log or linear tapered pot and whether or not it's defective. I guess he'll tell us what he wants to do when he wakes

edit: I have no idea what the standard is for ES-165, he said that it had no tone control. Without the tone control, all bets are off regarding how the volume control reacts - they are closely inter-related, normally.

If no tone knob, then this is the newer version with the floater. The original version had the bucker and both tone and volume knobs. I really hate that they did this to an otherwise wonderful guitar.

**randyc** · 11-05-2009, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by derek

If no tone knob, then this is the newer version with the floater. The original version had the bucker and both tone and volume knobs. I really hate that they did this to an otherwise wonderful guitar.

I agree - it was "the jazz guitar" as originally configured. The sound that defined the virtuosos of the classic era of jazz.

**Gertje** · 11-05-2009, 04:32 PM

Thanks for the many answers to my question.
I am not asleep

, but did not have the time yet to check the value of the pot.
I will check the value and also check if it is a linear or log. pot.

Thanks,
gert

**Gertje** · 11-13-2009, 05:24 AM

Before taking the pot off the guitar I got an answer from Gibson Service Europe. So that is a compliment to Gibson for their service.
They send me a wiring diagram of (on old type ES165 with tone control).
From the diagram it is clear that the volume pot Gibson uses on this guitar is 300K linear.
As far as I know pot's used for volume control should be a log.
So I think replacing the pot for a log i.s.o. a lin. pot will solve my problem.
Thanks for all the advice and answers.
Gert