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Do you live near an ocean or in the southeast US?
It looks shocking but I guess when you calculate the collective string tension its not too surprising.
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06-27-2018 02:48 PM
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On the tailpiece not the guitar though.
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Hmmm. Interesting. Originally Posted by joe2758
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nope, PA Originally Posted by ugarte
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Now I'll be looking at the tailpiece on my 59 RI looking for metal fatigue.
Glad they replaced it. Maybe you just got a bad one. As stated, they are probably made of cheap pot metal.
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Huh. I think I see one of the causitive factors. The corrosion on the wire, which goes through the hinges, indicates that the plating was either very shoddy and wore off or wasn't even applied there in the first place. Because rusting adds oxygen to the base metal (the iron in the steel becomes iron oxide, which is a bigger molecule), the metal expands. I think that put pressure on the hinge tunnels and, between that and the string tension, it cracked and failed. Originally Posted by joe2758
With your new tailpiece, I would run a little oil in there (I'd specifically use Boeshield T-9, a wax based lubricant that dries pretty well and leaves a wax coating behind) to prevent wear and corrosion in the future.
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new one came in already! look how it’s a little different where the strings lock in. would “3 in 1” oil do the trick?
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Yeah, although I suggested T-9 because it is wax-based and dries. If you get 3-in-1 on the finish it will probably damage it. The new tailpiece looks o be of better quality!
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we are back in action!
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Hi Joe, Gibson, huh? I wonder if it might help to detune your strings before you put your guitar to bed. Lessening the tension on the tailpiece may improve its longevity.
I don't know why the tailpiece maker cannot solve the problem. Metal too thin? Metal not annealed for strength? No metallurgist I but you'd think they would have a better bracket by now. TiG welded bicycle frames are pretty damn strong. Why not TiG weld that loop or a short tube to the inside of the loop?
As for the broken tailpiece, keep it. Take it to a metalworker who may fashion a strong bracket with matching holes for it. Someone is certain to have better ideas on how to make a strong bracket. As I mentioned, someone may just cut off the old loops, clean up the joints and TiG weld two tubes to the old bracket with the tailpiece wire frame in the tubes.
Not trying to be funny but for your new tailpiece it may help to heavily braze or TiG weld the open ends of the loops to the bracket. Even a fillet of strong epoxy* may help. The loops have no structural support from the bracket. They open up with string tension and microfracture exponentially and eventually break. Brazing or welding or epoxying them down transfers the tension to the bracket and brazed/welded/epoxied joint.
Just a suggestion.
* JB Steel Reinforced Cold Weld Epoxy?Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-30-2018 at 06:35 PM.
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Thanks Jabbs! what do you guys think about how angled i have my bridge? i know some angle is ok, but mine is wuite a lot. should i tru to reset it straighter? I just really hate screwing with intonation
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Your ABR-1 TOM looks level. The base, not so much. Looks higher on the bass side. Did you put the ABR-1 back on the base the same way? There is usually a Bass side and a Treble side.
If the intonation is right it is just a matter of looks. The base may not be well-fitted to the top if flipped around. Happened to me once. There were a B and a T scribbled underneath the base that I missed.
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JB Weld is some strong stuff. I once foolishly bought a Chevy Cavalier, which had a very poorly designed head and exhaust manifold attachment. Where the manifold screwed into the block was raised, and the weak cast iron broke. Not being able to afford a new head, I bought some JB Weld and put it back together. When I sold that POS a few years later, it was still holding fine.
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much better, worth the 15-20 mins of work to get it straighter. I was just rushing it before
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Hooray! Originally Posted by joe2758
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That's a classic, I'm surprised it withstood the heat. You should do an advertisement for them. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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I would, if they paid me. For free? I don't think so.
I was amazed that it withstood the heat, and never failed. An exhaust manifold gets very hot, which is presumably what caused the original break. Technically, the break was on the head, but the heat is the same. I keep some JB Weld on hand all the time.
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Hi,
I realize I'm late responding to this, but my '51 L-7C tailpiece just broke.
I do a little soldering, welding, etc, so went to my local welding supply shop, and the owner and I talked about the break, It is plated brass, and I will be attempting to do the repair with silver solder, which technically is brazing, not soldering. It's a temperature thing. There is a good chance that the knuckles will break off when I bend them back before applying heat and filler metal. I am aware of that and will hopefully come up with a method that will lessen the likelihood of breaking. One method might be supporting the outside with a strap, probably a piece of metal shim stock, and using it to pull the knuckle back to shape. My 50+ years of fine motor skills will be challenged with this one!
We concluded that the part was probably cold pressed during manufacture. Cold pressing brass can cause fracturing in the metal. This is avoided by annealing the metal while bending it. The cause of failure is most likely due to the fractured brass finally failing due to metal fatigue. Since it is a 50's guitar part, being very expensive to replace, and useless as it is, I will attempt the repair before buying a replacement. If it fails I will see about ordering a new replacement. The silver solder is on order :-)
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So, because this advice is not as widely spread as it should be, I'm going to offer it again:
A Brass+Woodwind repair person is the best choice to repair a broken tailpiece (assuming you can't replace it with it an identical, brand new one). The kind of metals involved are exactly what they're used to dealing with, and repairing such breaks with cosmetics and tone in mind are something they are already used to. The tailpiece on my 1937 ES-150 cracked on the edge, and it was a barely a $40 repair to fix it.
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+1 The guys in my big band are frequently showing off their horn repairs. Originally Posted by campusfive
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Here is what the tail peace on my Arch Top looks like. The end that attaches to the Guitar is one solid peace and the rails are run straight thru. I would think this design would be the strongest. sorry for the poor quality pic.
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More common than you think. I know of 3 Eastmans one being mine, of the three 2 have had the same sort of failure. Repair is not really an option. It is a bad batch of brass alloy could be the wrong mixture, formed too cold, any number of things.
I worked in the metallurgy dept. of a large corporation ( I am not a metallurgist ). I took my broken tail piece to the experts it was repaired but failed again within a week. I was told Bad brass, stainless steel would be a lot better. They offered to make me a exact SS replacement but because a new replacement was on it's way I didn't take the offer. One of the few things I miss about working.
There is something else called stress corrosion, looking at the rust from the steel rod there could have been a reaction from the rust and brass that caused the failure over a long period of time. A drop of oil would go a long way in preventing this.
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