replacement for '88 gibson/kluson tuners?

[jzucker]

The tuners on my '88 175 have had it. A couple barely turn (bent) and I'd like to replace the set with a better quality tuner, possibly a lower gear ratio.

I don't want to ream the holes or add new screw holes.

What are my options?

[ThatRhythmMan]

I’m intrigued by these Kluson Revolution tuners. I would expect tuning stability to be improved since they are locking tuners. I’m not sure about the fit, although one would think they would be a direct drop in fit.

REVOLUTION

[jzucker]

thanks, i'll check them out.

[jzucker]

i wonder if these would fit with no modifications?

Grover 18:1 Sta-Tite (97-18 Series) 3+3 Tuners | stewmac.com

[ThatRhythmMan]

Sta-tite tuners have a larger screw spacing than Kluson deluxe style tuners. I also don’t think that the bushings will fit without modification.

[jzucker]

another option though these seem to be discontinued.

TonePros Kluson Upgrade Tuning Machines Tuners Vintage Gibson 3x3 Nickel Tpkg3-n | eBay

[Stringswinger]

New Kluson tuners work well and should fit your existing holes.

VINTAGE STAMPED STEEL

[jzucker]

mine have the hex nut on top instead of the press fit. I wonder if that makes any difference?

[ThatRhythmMan]

I believe it does. I don’t think the bushings are the same diameter. Installing bushings will also add grooves to the holes, even if they are the same diameter.

[Stringswinger]

Why not just use Grover rotomatics (Jim Hall used them on his 175) or Schallers (Joe Pass used them on his 175)?

You have already screwed up the originality by installing a strap pin

[ThatRhythmMan]

Grover 135N should also work.

Vintage (135 Series) | VINTAGE | Grover |

[helios]

The tuners on my '88 175 have had it. A couple barely turn (bent) and I'd like to replace the set with a better quality tuner, possibly a lower gear ratio.

I don't want to ream the holes or add new screw holes.

What are my options?

I curious as to why you would prefer a lower ratio tuner? A higher ratio (rotating the post in smaller increments) would be more accurate (if you're fussy tuner like me that is)!

[jzucker]

I curious as to why you would prefer a lower ratio tuner? A higher ratio (rotating the post in smaller increments) would be more accurate (if you're fussy tuner like me that is)!

sorry, i was referring to it like a car's transmission which is opposite of the mathematical term for low and high ratio

[skiboyny]

So lets see a shot of this new ax! You will always return to that sound it's just to much a part of you at this point. You might sway for a while but you will always return!

[John A.]

mine have the hex nut on top instead of the press fit. I wonder if that makes any difference?

That means the holes are larger and threaded to accommodate Grover or Schaller diecast tuners. There are "Kluson Deluxe" (made by TonePros), "Grover Deluxe" and "Gibson Deluxe" branded tuners that have these bushings. On the StewMac site you can see the spec's for the Grover and Kluson branded ones (some are 14:1 are 15:1). Gibson has their branded ones on their site, which are (of course) more expensive, and have no ratio spec listed. In terms of quality, they're all the same. I had the Gibson branded ones on a LP, and they worked fine.

John

[jzucker]

those cast tuners have different screw hole mounts though.

That means the holes are larger and threaded to accommodate Grover or Schaller diecast tuners. There are "Kluson Deluxe" (made by TonePros), "Grover Deluxe" and "Gibson Deluxe" branded tuners that have these bushings. On the StewMac site you can see the spec's for the Grover and Kluson branded ones (some are 14:1 are 15:1). Gibson has their branded ones on their site, which are (of course) more expensive, and have no ratio spec listed. In terms of quality, they're all the same. I had the Gibson branded ones on a LP, and they worked fine.

John

[John A.]

those cast tuners have different screw hole mounts though.

Right, forgot about that aspect. If you don't want to drill any new holes, then look for one of the stamped "Deluxe" style Kluson/TonePro or Grovers. Or possibly
these: * WD Music Products - KLUSON® REVOLUTION G-MOUNT DIECAST TUNERS - 3 PER SIDE - PEARLOID KEYSTONE BUTTON - CHROME

John

[oldane]

Jack, having noted in your earlier threads that you don't at all like head heavy guitars, you may prefer some kind of replica of the original Kluson DeLuxe rather than say Schaller M6 or Grover Rotomatic or the like which are heavier and will change the balance of the guitar slightly (maybe insignificantly?). FWIW, I have had Schaller M6 on my 175 since 1975 (still working as new) and don't find it neck heavy, but I know I am sometimes a bit more insensitive to those guitar details than many others, so don't just take my word for it.

[jzucker]

Jack, having noted in your earlier threads that you don't at all like head heavy guitars, you may prefer some kind of replica of the original Kluson DeLuxe rather than say Schaller M6 or Grover Rotomatic or the like which are heavier and will change the balance of the guitar slightly (maybe insignificantly?). FWIW, I have had Schaller M6 on my 175 since 1975 (still working as new) and don't find it neck heavy, but I know I am sometimes a bit more insensitive to those guitar details than many others, so don't just take my word for it.

The guitar's pretty light and my original 88 had grover imperials on it and it didn't significantly effect the balance so It'd probably be fine but I'd like to avoid the new screw holes and peghead reaming if possible.

[jzucker]

Right, forgot about that aspect. If you don't want to drill any new holes, then look for one of the stamped "Deluxe" style Kluson/TonePro or Grovers. Or possibly
these: * WD Music Products - KLUSON® REVOLUTION G-MOUNT DIECAST TUNERS - 3 PER SIDE - PEARLOID KEYSTONE BUTTON - CHROME

John

i've been looking at those. I wonder if they need conversion bushings and how heavy they are compared to rotomatics?

[Hammertone]

The tuners on my '88 175 have had it. A couple barely turn (bent) and I'd like to replace the set with a better quality tuner, possibly a lower gear ratio. I don't want to ream the holes or add new screw holes. What are my options?

Three options:
1 - Gibson used OEM Schaller vintage-style tuners w/screw-in bushings. Now they use Ping tuners. I have new sets of the Schallers if you simply want to replace them.
2 - Grover Rotomatics will fit the existing holes, but you will see an existing small screw hole in the wood above the back of each tuner. I have these as well.
3 - Gotoh vintage-style tuners are better quality than similar Klusons. You could install a set but would need to use "conversion bushings" to fill the existing larger shaft holes. Screw holes in the back will match what is there. I have these tuners and conversions bushings as well.

[John A.]

i've been looking at those. I wonder if they need conversion bushings and how heavy they are compared to rotomatics?

It looks like they make them with both press-in and threaded bushings. From what you described, the threaded ones should be a drop-in replacement for what you have. As far as weight goes, there doesn't seem to be a published spec. I googled around a bit, and some reviews (such as this one) said they are about a gram heavier than the Gibson-branded Deluxe Kluson-style tuners. Worth a shot, IMO. I'd buy a set, except the only guitar I have that actually needs new tuners is an acoustic with 3-on-plate Klusons, and they don't come in that form factor.

John

[Jabberwocky]

Guitar Tuner Upgrade Kits (3+3 Headstocks) – Hipshot Products ?

[ThatRhythmMan]

Guitar Tuner Upgrade Kits (3+3 Headstocks) – Hipshot Products ?

I like Hipshot’s other products and I think these are a great idea, but they feel a bit clunky to me versus the Kluson Revolution set.

What are your thoughts on this, Jabs? Do you have personal experience with either?

[vinnyv1k]

What's wrong with Gibson replacements. Bolt on no mods and the new ones work flawlessly. The ones on my 2010 175 and 2014 L4 work better than the Schallers on my L5.