Wrong custom guitar build

**bohemian46** · 06-16-2018, 04:10 PM

"This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth."

I have been in his position.. you made a false assumption.

I was likewise laid away in a deal (nearly identical in nature to this situation) by a builder in Hawaii.. but worse..he ,too, was a "respected" builder.
He took 14 months to build an instrument which he agreed to make in four. I paid him in full, up front, to include shipping to me in the lower 48. When the instrument was completed he hostaged it and said that his price had increased during the year and shipping had gone up. I had no choice and paid.

The instrument arrived.. It was not the instrument I ordered. I want NO logo in the head stock, NO inlays on the neck, a particular body shape etc, wood used... All in writing prior.. all agreed. money paid..Absolutely nothing on this instrument was as agreed. Furthermore the workmanship was sloppy and substandard and unplayable. I took the instrument to Gryphon in Palo Alto who said the instrument could not be fixed without removing the neck, tossing the fingerboard, refiitting the neck and fingerboard and so on.. cost over $1000. I contacted the seller and began with a polite conversation suggesting that he could resolve this by making the ordered instrument in the previously agreed upon contract. He was immediately adversarial and said that I own the instrument and could do with it what I liked. I suggested that he could be honorable, or at this point, live up to my expectations. He hung up on me.. I sent overnight registered certified mail, UPS overnight ad nauseum.. I went to small claims court. I won in small claims court, however winning and collecting are two different situations. I never collected. He refused to contact me.

I sold the instrument for 1/4 of the purchase price.

And this is not the only time I have been screwed.. so before you pre qualify the recipient of your assumptive, dismissive( I'm the daddy) BS.. consider that the OP's circumstances may have been shared by others.

I will never again order a custom made instrument.

My solution.. play and pay or build your own which is what I have been doing now for about 5 decades.

**marcwhy** · 06-16-2018, 05:33 PM

Wow, Bohemian - that is an awful story!!

FWIW, I've had several custom guitars made over the years -- most recently from Clay Conner and Chris Forshage -- and (fortunately!) I've had great experiences! I couldn't imagine the incredible disappointment (and bad vibes!) from a "wrong" instrument.

**rio** · 06-16-2018, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by bohemian46

"This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth."

I have been in his position.. you made a false assumption.

I was likewise laid away in a deal (nearly identical in nature to this situation) by a builder in Hawaii.. but worse..he ,too, was a "respected" builder.
He took 14 months to build an instrument which he agreed to make in four. I paid him in full, up front, to include shipping to me in the lower 48. When the instrument was completed he hostaged it and said that his price had increased during the year and shipping had gone up. I had no choice and paid.

The instrument arrived.. It was not the instrument I ordered. I want NO logo in the head stock, NO inlays on the neck, a particular body shape etc, wood used... All in writing prior.. all agreed. money paid..Absolutely nothing on this instrument was as agreed. Furthermore the workmanship was sloppy and substandard and unplayable. I took the instrument to Gryphon in Palo Alto who said the instrument could not be fixed without removing the neck, tossing the fingerboard, refiitting the neck and fingerboard and so on.. cost over $1000. I contacted the seller and began with a polite conversation suggesting that he could resolve this by making the ordered instrument in the previously agreed upon contract. He was immediately adversarial and said that I own the instrument and could do with it what I liked. I suggested that he could be honorable, or at this point, live up to my expectations. He hung up on me.. I sent overnight registered certified mail, UPS overnight ad nauseum.. I went to small claims court. I won in small claims court, however winning and collecting are two different situations. I never collected. He refused to contact me.

I sold the instrument for 1/4 of the purchase price.

And this is not the only time I have been screwed.. so before you pre qualify the recipient of your assumptive, dismissive( I'm the daddy) BS.. consider that the OP's circumstances may have been shared by others.

I will never again order a custom made instrument.

My solution.. play and pay or build your own which is what I have been doing now for about 5 decades.

That is just awful. Shameful really. Who was this builder?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**iim7V7IM7** · 06-17-2018, 07:50 AM

I just want to chime in to reinforce that the majority of established, solo archtop luthiers (I differentiate these people from the plethora of solid body electric guitar “builders” seen over at TGP) are honest, reliable artisans who do their best to meet a client’s agreed upon specifications.

Situations like the OP’s are extremely unfortunate and are outside my experience in commissioning many custom guitars. With the advent of the Internet where everything can look professional, it can be difficult for some to differentiate between “part time” builders and experienced luthiers. There is a long list of archtop luthier professionals at different price points that will deliver you an aesthetically beautiful, fantastic sounding and playing instrument.

That said, there are some experienced professionals out there that have cast a black cloud on the profession from time to time by not delivering instruments or delivering them far outside the agreed upon time frame with poor to no communication. These luthiers are discoverable with an hour or so of internet research by prospective buyers (threads like this one perhaps).

I look forward to hearing what the resolution to this unfortunate story is. I just wanted to add this commentary to provide prospective buyers with some broader context regarding working with a custom luthier. Research your selection thoroughly through multiple means. Do not fear the “leap of faith” in trusting a luthier to fulfill their playing dreams. There are some best practices in selection, payment structure and upfront and mid project communications that can mitigate disappointment in my experience (perhaps the subject of a new thread).

My $.02

**Doctor Jeff** · 06-18-2018, 07:55 AM

Builder gotta go talk to his manager...maybe some A&M tickets can be in the mix...

**Durban** · 06-27-2018, 04:40 PM

“Remember there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over.”

FZ

**bohemian46** · 06-27-2018, 10:12 PM

Lessons learned...

Never, N E V E R, pay up front.
Trust no one, not ever, not for any reason.

I broke my own rule based on the suggestion of a (former) friend who knew and recommended this maker.. and backed out and dis- appeared when the split hit the sham.

**bohemian46** · 06-27-2018, 10:31 PM

BTW I was screwed by C.F.Martin Corp... twice.. once in 2010 and again in 2011.. two very expensive custom builds back to back.

Without detail... what I got was not what I ordered in specification, and both were grossly defective to the point it was obvious without taking either out of the case..

Net result ..over 18 months in their possession ( I paid the shipping to them) both were destroyed as unrepairable and destroyed without my knowledge or permission. Did I mention they made a defective replacement which I had to return, then they built another with the wrong specs.. and it too was defective.. ..then they lost my original guitars, lost my order, loss my warranty claim. Meantime they fired the person responsible for getting this resolved who did not tell her successor about my case.. and did not tell me.. and not once in 18 months did any one call me or return a call. After 21 months I finally got a refund. .. and told

CF Martin does not believe we can build a guitar to your standards. !!

Does that mean without cracks ( in the case brand new... without a neck off the center line and needing a neck reset, and with out the bridge shifted 1/4 in to the right and the other end of the bridge sawn off to make it look centered etc etc etc. , without the pin holes drilled off center to make it look as though everything was in alignment.? yes folks that's what they did to cover up a collosal screw up.
And even though the high e was coming off the fingerboard at the 14th fret and the Low E was 1/4 inch from the edge of the fingerboard..and OBVIOUS ..... this passed quality control......?

There is a lot more to this story but I'll cut it off here.

I have owned 14 Martins since 1961... 6 used and 8 new.. 5 of the 8 new were defective to the point they were returned to Martin and 3 were destroyed as unrepairable. And in all three cases destroyed without my knowledge or permission and never notified.. I had to call them and get the info.

BTW all of this since CFM IV took over.. No such nonsense prior.

TH · 06-28-2018, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by bohemian46

BTW I was screwed by C.F.Martin Corp... twice.. once in 2010 and again in 2011.. two very expensive custom builds back to back.

.

Oh, going down that road, eh? A customer ordered an EXACT custom duplicate of a Martin OOO from my friend, a really good luthier in New Hampshire. Al doesn't like building other peoples' designs and he tried to dissuade this customer from the project. No, he wanted the OOO in Brazilian. Why don't you just order it from Martin?
Customer replies, "I did. Twice. They can't seem to get it right. One of them had the bridge in the wrong place and one of them was off centre."
When he took delivery of the OOO clone (which he was thrilled with), he tried another guitar that was near completion, this one built to the luthier's specs. "Why didn't you tell me you could do this when I ordered mine?"
Sigh.

David

**LtKojak** · 07-06-2018, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by itsall4you

hope it clears up a little bit.

Hey man, how you doing?

How come from New Zealand now your address is Denton, Texas? Did you move to Texas?

Did you get your guitar? How did you work things out with the luthier? Is he Marchione, by any chance?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

**Woody Sound** · 07-06-2018, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by LtKojak

Hey man, how you doing?

How come from New Zealand now your address is Denton, Texas? Did you move to Texas?

Did you get your guitar? How did you work things out with the luthier? Is he Marchione, by any chance?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

I don't think you can order a custom guitar from Marchione for $5k.

**marcwhy** · 07-06-2018, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by LtKojak

Hey man, how you doing?

How come from New Zealand now your address is Denton, Texas? Did you move to Texas?

Did you get your guitar? How did you work things out with the luthier? Is he Marchione, by any chance?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Unfortunately, the OP has kinda disappeared! I PM'd him, too, and no response. Not sure if that's good or bad ..