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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by DRS View Post
    Itsall4you

    Please post the builder's name.
    If someone else gets ripped off, you be complicit by your act of omission.
    anonymous members shouldn't post real names of other people. the potential for abuse is obvious, i would think.

  2. #122
    I went to a well known seafood restaurant last week. Got a really bad case of food poisoning. I paid for the meal anyway, the owner said I had to since he couldn't stay in business if he gave everyone who got sick their money back. I'm not going to say which place it was though. I wouldn't want him to retaliate, especially since my friends like to eat there. Who can say what he can do if he's mad at me.
    I have a reservation there next week. Taking the wife for our anniversary. I'm a little nervous but I'm even more nervous about what she'd do if she found out I didn't warn her. What are the chances it'll happen again? Best solution, chalk it up to bad luck and enjoy the doggie bag I took with me.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    1,214
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I went to a well known seafood restaurant last week. Got a really bad case of food poisoning. I paid for the meal anyway, the owner said I had to since he couldn't stay in business if he gave everyone who got sick their money back. I'm not going to say which place it was though. I wouldn't want him to retaliate, especially since my friends like to eat there. Who can say what he can do if he's mad at me.
    I have a reservation there next week. Taking the wife for our anniversary. I'm a little nervous but I'm even more nervous about what she'd do if she found out I didn't warn her. What are the chances it'll happen again? Best solution, chalk it up to bad luck and enjoy the doggie bag I took with me.
    :lol

  4. #124
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I went to a well known seafood restaurant last week. Got a really bad case of food poisoning. I paid for the meal anyway, the owner said I had to since he couldn't stay in business if he gave everyone who got sick their money back. I'm not going to say which place it was though. I wouldn't want him to retaliate, especially since my friends like to eat there. Who can say what he can do if he's mad at me.
    I have a reservation there next week. Taking the wife for our anniversary. I'm a little nervous but I'm even more nervous about what she'd do if she found out I didn't warn her. What are the chances it'll happen again? Best solution, chalk it up to bad luck and enjoy the doggie bag I took with me.
    Fool me once shame on you fool me twice...

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I went to a well known seafood restaurant last week. Got a really bad case of food poisoning. I paid for the meal anyway, the owner said I had to since he couldn't stay in business if he gave everyone who got sick their money back. I'm not going to say which place it was though. I wouldn't want him to retaliate, especially since my friends like to eat there. Who can say what he can do if he's mad at me.
    I have a reservation there next week. Taking the wife for our anniversary. I'm a little nervous but I'm even more nervous about what she'd do if she found out I didn't warn her. What are the chances it'll happen again? Best solution, chalk it up to bad luck and enjoy the doggie bag I took with me.
    I am hoping this is a great bit of sarcasm

    as a custom build gone wrong will likely not have a chance to kill you... however....

    I will never again eat at Sushi Boat Town since 2 Mother's Day's ago, I got not 1, but 2 long
    black hairs knotted around to my Caterpillar roll...

    Oh I'm getting ready to hurl just by recalling it!
    measure with micrometer... mark with chalk... cut with axe

  6. #126
    This is simple.
    The build is not what you ordered.
    Your compromise ( which I do not accept personally) ..Forget the time element and have him build the correct guitar and he compensates you for your loss in any expenses incurred as well as sending the correct guitar at his expense.

    (Were I the builder, that is what I would do.)

    Go to the wall, every day, in every way.



  7. #127
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    1,214
    Go to The Gear Page
    They have a good policy for outing crappy builders.
    There are so many people over there who have lost many multiples of thousands of dollars to shady builders and now you can search to find out the details. Sometimes people post wild and/or unsubstantiated grievances and they are quickly called out on it. Many many times the builder will step in and make things right or shed light on the true events. Some builders react in wildly defensive and insanely hilarious ways when they are dragged out into the light (Ken, are you there?) Pseudo supporters and shills posting from new accounts are common. But it seems to work out and I have a long list of crappy guitar, pedal, and amp builders to avoid.
    And so what if their business is hurt. If you ordered a V6 Honda with cloth interior and they delivered an L4 with leather interior, would you say, "oh well?"

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by bohemian46 View Post
    This is simple.
    The build is not what you ordered.
    Your compromise ( which I do not accept personally) ..Forget the time element and have him build the correct guitar and he compensates you for your loss in any expenses incurred as well as sending the correct guitar at his expense.

    (Were I the builder, that is what I would do.)

    Go to the wall, every day, in every way.
    This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth.
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,542
    Well, I do know that so far, all we've heard is one side of this story, posted almost a month ago, and then basically nothing since.

    I fully sympathize with the OP if this actually happened to him as he described it. I also sympathize with the members here who offered their suggestions and opinions concerning the transaction, and then haven't heard a thing as to any help their suggestions may have been in resolving the op's issues.

    I know one thing that naming the builder would do - -it'd give someone here the chance to contact the builder and get the other side of this story, and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't take any of us a month.

    MHO
    Last edited by Dennis D; 06-16-2018 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #130
    "This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth."

    I have been in his position.. you made a false assumption.

    I was likewise laid away in a deal (nearly identical in nature to this situation) by a builder in Hawaii.. but worse..he ,too, was a "respected" builder.
    He took 14 months to build an instrument which he agreed to make in four. I paid him in full, up front, to include shipping to me in the lower 48. When the instrument was completed he hostaged it and said that his price had increased during the year and shipping had gone up. I had no choice and paid.

    The instrument arrived.. It was not the instrument I ordered. I want NO logo in the head stock, NO inlays on the neck, a particular body shape etc, wood used... All in writing prior.. all agreed. money paid..Absolutely nothing on this instrument was as agreed. Furthermore the workmanship was sloppy and substandard and unplayable. I took the instrument to Gryphon in Palo Alto who said the instrument could not be fixed without removing the neck, tossing the fingerboard, refiitting the neck and fingerboard and so on.. cost over $1000. I contacted the seller and began with a polite conversation suggesting that he could resolve this by making the ordered instrument in the previously agreed upon contract. He was immediately adversarial and said that I own the instrument and could do with it what I liked. I suggested that he could be honorable, or at this point, live up to my expectations. He hung up on me.. I sent overnight registered certified mail, UPS overnight ad nauseum.. I went to small claims court. I won in small claims court, however winning and collecting are two different situations. I never collected. He refused to contact me.

    I sold the instrument for 1/4 of the purchase price.

    And this is not the only time I have been screwed.. so before you pre qualify the recipient of your assumptive, dismissive( I'm the daddy) BS.. consider that the OP's circumstances may have been shared by others.

    I will never again order a custom made instrument.

    My solution.. play and pay or build your own which is what I have been doing now for about 5 decades.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,459
    Wow, Bohemian - that is an awful story!!

    FWIW, I've had several custom guitars made over the years -- most recently from Clay Conner and Chris Forshage -- and (fortunately!) I've had great experiences! I couldn't imagine the incredible disappointment (and bad vibes!) from a "wrong" instrument.

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    1,608
    Quote Originally Posted by bohemian46 View Post
    "This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth."

    I have been in his position.. you made a false assumption.

    I was likewise laid away in a deal (nearly identical in nature to this situation) by a builder in Hawaii.. but worse..he ,too, was a "respected" builder.
    He took 14 months to build an instrument which he agreed to make in four. I paid him in full, up front, to include shipping to me in the lower 48. When the instrument was completed he hostaged it and said that his price had increased during the year and shipping had gone up. I had no choice and paid.

    The instrument arrived.. It was not the instrument I ordered. I want NO logo in the head stock, NO inlays on the neck, a particular body shape etc, wood used... All in writing prior.. all agreed. money paid..Absolutely nothing on this instrument was as agreed. Furthermore the workmanship was sloppy and substandard and unplayable. I took the instrument to Gryphon in Palo Alto who said the instrument could not be fixed without removing the neck, tossing the fingerboard, refiitting the neck and fingerboard and so on.. cost over $1000. I contacted the seller and began with a polite conversation suggesting that he could resolve this by making the ordered instrument in the previously agreed upon contract. He was immediately adversarial and said that I own the instrument and could do with it what I liked. I suggested that he could be honorable, or at this point, live up to my expectations. He hung up on me.. I sent overnight registered certified mail, UPS overnight ad nauseum.. I went to small claims court. I won in small claims court, however winning and collecting are two different situations. I never collected. He refused to contact me.

    I sold the instrument for 1/4 of the purchase price.

    And this is not the only time I have been screwed.. so before you pre qualify the recipient of your assumptive, dismissive( I'm the daddy) BS.. consider that the OP's circumstances may have been shared by others.

    I will never again order a custom made instrument.

    My solution.. play and pay or build your own which is what I have been doing now for about 5 decades.
    That is just awful. Shameful really. Who was this builder?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    1,096
    I just want to chime in to reinforce that the majority of established, solo archtop luthiers (I differentiate these people from the plethora of solid body electric guitar “builders” seen over at TGP) are honest, reliable artisans who do their best to meet a client’s agreed upon specifications.

    Situations like the OP’s are extremely unfortunate and are outside my experience in commissioning many custom guitars. With the advent of the Internet where everything can look professional, it can be difficult for some to differentiate between “part time” builders and experienced luthiers. There is a long list of archtop luthier professionals at different price points that will deliver you an aesthetically beautiful, fantastic sounding and playing instrument.

    That said, there are some experienced professionals out there that have cast a black cloud on the profession from time to time by not delivering instruments or delivering them far outside the agreed upon time frame with poor to no communication. These luthiers are discoverable with an hour or so of internet research by prospective buyers (threads like this one perhaps).

    I look forward to hearing what the resolution to this unfortunate story is. I just wanted to add this commentary to provide prospective buyers with some broader context regarding working with a custom luthier. Research your selection thoroughly through multiple means. Do not fear the “leap of faith” in trusting a luthier to fulfill their playing dreams. There are some best practices in selection, payment structure and upfront and mid project communications that can mitigate disappointment in my experience (perhaps the subject of a new thread).

    My $.02
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________________
    Bob


  14. #134
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    3,060
    Builder gotta go talk to his manager...maybe some A&M tickets can be in the mix...


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