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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I went to a well known seafood restaurant last week. Got a really bad case of food poisoning. I paid for the meal anyway, the owner said I had to since he couldn't stay in business if he gave everyone who got sick their money back. I'm not going to say which place it was though. I wouldn't want him to retaliate, especially since my friends like to eat there. Who can say what he can do if he's mad at me.
    I have a reservation there next week. Taking the wife for our anniversary. I'm a little nervous but I'm even more nervous about what she'd do if she found out I didn't warn her. What are the chances it'll happen again? Best solution, chalk it up to bad luck and enjoy the doggie bag I took with me.
    :lol

  2. #122
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    May 2011
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I went to a well known seafood restaurant last week. Got a really bad case of food poisoning. I paid for the meal anyway, the owner said I had to since he couldn't stay in business if he gave everyone who got sick their money back. I'm not going to say which place it was though. I wouldn't want him to retaliate, especially since my friends like to eat there. Who can say what he can do if he's mad at me.
    I have a reservation there next week. Taking the wife for our anniversary. I'm a little nervous but I'm even more nervous about what she'd do if she found out I didn't warn her. What are the chances it'll happen again? Best solution, chalk it up to bad luck and enjoy the doggie bag I took with me.
    Fool me once shame on you fool me twice...

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I went to a well known seafood restaurant last week. Got a really bad case of food poisoning. I paid for the meal anyway, the owner said I had to since he couldn't stay in business if he gave everyone who got sick their money back. I'm not going to say which place it was though. I wouldn't want him to retaliate, especially since my friends like to eat there. Who can say what he can do if he's mad at me.
    I have a reservation there next week. Taking the wife for our anniversary. I'm a little nervous but I'm even more nervous about what she'd do if she found out I didn't warn her. What are the chances it'll happen again? Best solution, chalk it up to bad luck and enjoy the doggie bag I took with me.
    I am hoping this is a great bit of sarcasm

    as a custom build gone wrong will likely not have a chance to kill you... however....

    I will never again eat at Sushi Boat Town since 2 Mother's Day's ago, I got not 1, but 2 long
    black hairs knotted around to my Caterpillar roll...

    Oh I'm getting ready to hurl just by recalling it!
    measure with micrometer... mark with chalk... cut with axe

  4. #124
    This is simple.
    The build is not what you ordered.
    Your compromise ( which I do not accept personally) ..Forget the time element and have him build the correct guitar and he compensates you for your loss in any expenses incurred as well as sending the correct guitar at his expense.

    (Were I the builder, that is what I would do.)

    Go to the wall, every day, in every way.



  5. #125
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    Jan 2013
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    British Columbia
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    1,248
    Go to The Gear Page
    They have a good policy for outing crappy builders.
    There are so many people over there who have lost many multiples of thousands of dollars to shady builders and now you can search to find out the details. Sometimes people post wild and/or unsubstantiated grievances and they are quickly called out on it. Many many times the builder will step in and make things right or shed light on the true events. Some builders react in wildly defensive and insanely hilarious ways when they are dragged out into the light (Ken, are you there?) Pseudo supporters and shills posting from new accounts are common. But it seems to work out and I have a long list of crappy guitar, pedal, and amp builders to avoid.
    And so what if their business is hurt. If you ordered a V6 Honda with cloth interior and they delivered an L4 with leather interior, would you say, "oh well?"

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by bohemian46 View Post
    This is simple.
    The build is not what you ordered.
    Your compromise ( which I do not accept personally) ..Forget the time element and have him build the correct guitar and he compensates you for your loss in any expenses incurred as well as sending the correct guitar at his expense.

    (Were I the builder, that is what I would do.)

    Go to the wall, every day, in every way.
    This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth.
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
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    Well, I do know that so far, all we've heard is one side of this story, posted almost a month ago, and then basically nothing since.

    I fully sympathize with the OP if this actually happened to him as he described it. I also sympathize with the members here who offered their suggestions and opinions concerning the transaction, and then haven't heard a thing as to any help their suggestions may have been in resolving the op's issues.

    I know one thing that naming the builder would do - -it'd give someone here the chance to contact the builder and get the other side of this story, and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't take any of us a month.

    MHO
    Last edited by Dennis D; 06-16-2018 at 02:45 PM.

  8. #128
    "This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth."

    I have been in his position.. you made a false assumption.

    I was likewise laid away in a deal (nearly identical in nature to this situation) by a builder in Hawaii.. but worse..he ,too, was a "respected" builder.
    He took 14 months to build an instrument which he agreed to make in four. I paid him in full, up front, to include shipping to me in the lower 48. When the instrument was completed he hostaged it and said that his price had increased during the year and shipping had gone up. I had no choice and paid.

    The instrument arrived.. It was not the instrument I ordered. I want NO logo in the head stock, NO inlays on the neck, a particular body shape etc, wood used... All in writing prior.. all agreed. money paid..Absolutely nothing on this instrument was as agreed. Furthermore the workmanship was sloppy and substandard and unplayable. I took the instrument to Gryphon in Palo Alto who said the instrument could not be fixed without removing the neck, tossing the fingerboard, refiitting the neck and fingerboard and so on.. cost over $1000. I contacted the seller and began with a polite conversation suggesting that he could resolve this by making the ordered instrument in the previously agreed upon contract. He was immediately adversarial and said that I own the instrument and could do with it what I liked. I suggested that he could be honorable, or at this point, live up to my expectations. He hung up on me.. I sent overnight registered certified mail, UPS overnight ad nauseum.. I went to small claims court. I won in small claims court, however winning and collecting are two different situations. I never collected. He refused to contact me.

    I sold the instrument for 1/4 of the purchase price.

    And this is not the only time I have been screwed.. so before you pre qualify the recipient of your assumptive, dismissive( I'm the daddy) BS.. consider that the OP's circumstances may have been shared by others.

    I will never again order a custom made instrument.

    My solution.. play and pay or build your own which is what I have been doing now for about 5 decades.

  9. #129
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    Feb 2009
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    Salt Lake City
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    Wow, Bohemian - that is an awful story!!

    FWIW, I've had several custom guitars made over the years -- most recently from Clay Conner and Chris Forshage -- and (fortunately!) I've had great experiences! I couldn't imagine the incredible disappointment (and bad vibes!) from a "wrong" instrument.

  10. #130
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    New Jersey
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    1,690
    Quote Originally Posted by bohemian46 View Post
    "This is easy to say when you're not the one in his position. What if he gets tough and then the builder ignores him? We're talking about two locations on the other side of the earth."

    I have been in his position.. you made a false assumption.

    I was likewise laid away in a deal (nearly identical in nature to this situation) by a builder in Hawaii.. but worse..he ,too, was a "respected" builder.
    He took 14 months to build an instrument which he agreed to make in four. I paid him in full, up front, to include shipping to me in the lower 48. When the instrument was completed he hostaged it and said that his price had increased during the year and shipping had gone up. I had no choice and paid.

    The instrument arrived.. It was not the instrument I ordered. I want NO logo in the head stock, NO inlays on the neck, a particular body shape etc, wood used... All in writing prior.. all agreed. money paid..Absolutely nothing on this instrument was as agreed. Furthermore the workmanship was sloppy and substandard and unplayable. I took the instrument to Gryphon in Palo Alto who said the instrument could not be fixed without removing the neck, tossing the fingerboard, refiitting the neck and fingerboard and so on.. cost over $1000. I contacted the seller and began with a polite conversation suggesting that he could resolve this by making the ordered instrument in the previously agreed upon contract. He was immediately adversarial and said that I own the instrument and could do with it what I liked. I suggested that he could be honorable, or at this point, live up to my expectations. He hung up on me.. I sent overnight registered certified mail, UPS overnight ad nauseum.. I went to small claims court. I won in small claims court, however winning and collecting are two different situations. I never collected. He refused to contact me.

    I sold the instrument for 1/4 of the purchase price.

    And this is not the only time I have been screwed.. so before you pre qualify the recipient of your assumptive, dismissive( I'm the daddy) BS.. consider that the OP's circumstances may have been shared by others.

    I will never again order a custom made instrument.

    My solution.. play and pay or build your own which is what I have been doing now for about 5 decades.
    That is just awful. Shameful really. Who was this builder?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NJ, USA
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    I just want to chime in to reinforce that the majority of established, solo archtop luthiers (I differentiate these people from the plethora of solid body electric guitar “builders” seen over at TGP) are honest, reliable artisans who do their best to meet a client’s agreed upon specifications.

    Situations like the OP’s are extremely unfortunate and are outside my experience in commissioning many custom guitars. With the advent of the Internet where everything can look professional, it can be difficult for some to differentiate between “part time” builders and experienced luthiers. There is a long list of archtop luthier professionals at different price points that will deliver you an aesthetically beautiful, fantastic sounding and playing instrument.

    That said, there are some experienced professionals out there that have cast a black cloud on the profession from time to time by not delivering instruments or delivering them far outside the agreed upon time frame with poor to no communication. These luthiers are discoverable with an hour or so of internet research by prospective buyers (threads like this one perhaps).

    I look forward to hearing what the resolution to this unfortunate story is. I just wanted to add this commentary to provide prospective buyers with some broader context regarding working with a custom luthier. Research your selection thoroughly through multiple means. Do not fear the “leap of faith” in trusting a luthier to fulfill their playing dreams. There are some best practices in selection, payment structure and upfront and mid project communications that can mitigate disappointment in my experience (perhaps the subject of a new thread).

    My $.02
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________________
    Bob


  12. #132
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    3,183
    Builder gotta go talk to his manager...maybe some A&M tickets can be in the mix...


  13. #133

    kneeling down and bending over

    “Remember there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over.”

    FZ

  14. #134
    Lessons learned...

    Never, N E V E R, pay up front.
    Trust no one, not ever, not for any reason.

    I broke my own rule based on the suggestion of a (former) friend who knew and recommended this maker.. and backed out and dis- appeared when the split hit the sham.

  15. #135
    BTW I was screwed by C.F.Martin Corp... twice.. once in 2010 and again in 2011.. two very expensive custom builds back to back.

    Without detail... what I got was not what I ordered in specification, and both were grossly defective to the point it was obvious without taking either out of the case..

    Net result ..over 18 months in their possession ( I paid the shipping to them) both were destroyed as unrepairable and destroyed without my knowledge or permission. Did I mention they made a defective replacement which I had to return, then they built another with the wrong specs.. and it too was defective.. ..then they lost my original guitars, lost my order, loss my warranty claim. Meantime they fired the person responsible for getting this resolved who did not tell her successor about my case.. and did not tell me.. and not once in 18 months did any one call me or return a call. After 21 months I finally got a refund. .. and told

    CF Martin does not believe we can build a guitar to your standards. !!

    Does that mean without cracks ( in the case brand new... without a neck off the center line and needing a neck reset, and with out the bridge shifted 1/4 in to the right and the other end of the bridge sawn off to make it look centered etc etc etc. , without the pin holes drilled off center to make it look as though everything was in alignment.? yes folks that's what they did to cover up a collosal screw up.
    And even though the high e was coming off the fingerboard at the 14th fret and the Low E was 1/4 inch from the edge of the fingerboard..and OBVIOUS ..... this passed quality control......?

    There is a lot more to this story but I'll cut it off here.


    I have owned 14 Martins since 1961... 6 used and 8 new.. 5 of the 8 new were defective to the point they were returned to Martin and 3 were destroyed as unrepairable. And in all three cases destroyed without my knowledge or permission and never notified.. I had to call them and get the info.

    BTW all of this since CFM IV took over.. No such nonsense prior.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by bohemian46 View Post
    BTW I was screwed by C.F.Martin Corp... twice.. once in 2010 and again in 2011.. two very expensive custom builds back to back.

    .
    Oh, going down that road, eh? A customer ordered an EXACT custom duplicate of a Martin OOO from my friend, a really good luthier in New Hampshire. Al doesn't like building other peoples' designs and he tried to dissuade this customer from the project. No, he wanted the OOO in Brazilian. Why don't you just order it from Martin?
    Customer replies, "I did. Twice. They can't seem to get it right. One of them had the bridge in the wrong place and one of them was off centre."
    When he took delivery of the OOO clone (which he was thrilled with), he tried another guitar that was near completion, this one built to the luthier's specs. "Why didn't you tell me you could do this when I ordered mine?"
    Sigh.

    David

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Milano, Italy
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    How's going?

    Quote Originally Posted by itsall4you View Post
    hope it clears up a little bit.
    Hey man, how you doing?

    How come from New Zealand now your address is Denton, Texas? Did you move to Texas?

    Did you get your guitar? How did you work things out with the luthier? Is he Marchione, by any chance?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy
    https://soundcloud.com/theodore-koja...hy-bro-project
    Hy-Bro Test Sound Files

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Hey man, how you doing?

    How come from New Zealand now your address is Denton, Texas? Did you move to Texas?

    Did you get your guitar? How did you work things out with the luthier? Is he Marchione, by any chance?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.
    I don't think you can order a custom guitar from Marchione for $5k.
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  19. #139
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    Feb 2009
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    Salt Lake City
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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Hey man, how you doing?

    How come from New Zealand now your address is Denton, Texas? Did you move to Texas?

    Did you get your guitar? How did you work things out with the luthier? Is he Marchione, by any chance?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.
    Unfortunately, the OP has kinda disappeared! I PM'd him, too, and no response. Not sure if that's good or bad ..

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
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    Athens, Greece
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    537
    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Hey man, how you doing?

    How did you work things out with the luthier? Is he Marchione, by any chance?

    Inquiring minds would like to know.
    Wasn't there a Marchione for sale a while back where the ebony tailpiece upgrade alone cost 2000$ ? So probably 5000 isn't in the ballpark.

  21. #141
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    Jun 2010
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    'Tis safer under the bridge...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    Wasn't there a Marchione for sale a while back where the ebony tailpiece upgrade alone cost 2000$ ? So probably 5000 isn't in the ballpark.
    $2500 upcharge for the ebony tailpiece. It cost $17 500 originally. I believe it sold for $7500 on the used market.
    Great Deals with Great Folks: max52 (Guild-Benedetto Artist Award); prickards (Ribbecke GC Halfling); Cincy2 (Comins Concert)

  22. #142
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    Dec 2011
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    Man, was I wrong...

    Well, I was obviously on the wrong track with the Marchione, price-wise. Not even close!

    Sorry!
    Last edited by LtKojak; 07-08-2018 at 08:23 AM.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy
    https://soundcloud.com/theodore-koja...hy-bro-project
    Hy-Bro Test Sound Files

  23. #143
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    Dec 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy View Post
    Unfortunately, the OP has kinda disappeared!
    Well, I kinda predicted it... not surprised.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy
    https://soundcloud.com/theodore-koja...hy-bro-project
    Hy-Bro Test Sound Files

  24. #144
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    Jan 2013
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    British Columbia
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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Well, I kinda predicted it... not surprised.
    So - was this just an epic troll?

  25. #145
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    Mar 2011
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    Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRS View Post
    So - was this just an epic troll?


    ...or somewhere between an epic goof and the stories they tell......

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