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Ted you are so right ... here in Phoenix we have very little except acoustic vibe in chandler ....that’s for acoustic only really ..
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05-22-2018 03:31 PM
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Shopping for a Vintage Gibson archtop is like navigating a minefield. Just be careful you don't buy a high-priced fixer-upper. Know what to look out for and what the market is. Player grade guitars are fine for playing but don't pay collector prices for player grade guitars.
You don't want a disappointment. I'd be leery of Norm's Rare. They cater for celebrities and use that to draw in the moneyed and the clueless. They have nice guitars and a good range but high prices out of kilter with the market. Edit: I must qualify this remark; it is an opinion and I am not the kind to shop at Norm's Rare, that Norm's Rare wants anyway. Vintage guitar prices are highly elastic; as much as the market can bear. If you are looking for that 1928 L5, perhaps, maybe only Norm's Rare has it. Oh well, pay the asking or keep on looking.
You buy into the romance of vintage guitars. I'd rather that you look for a good used L5CES made in the Nashville Custom Shops. Or a good used ES-175 of recent manufacture of which there a few variations. Check out the Chicago Music Exchange Floor Model thread. Good buys for about $1990 to $2250. Lots of ES-175s out there.
If your intent is to buy a Gibson jazzbox for playing you want one that gives you no issues. If you buy vintage buy it with no questions asked money back policy and a long trial. Then have it gone over by a trusted luthier.
Make it a fun ride.
PS. I'd be inclined to look for an L5CES, Super 400CES or ES-175 made from mid-90s onwards. They are good archtops and many were made. ~$5500 for an L5CES ASB, ~$6500 for a Super400CES ASB, ~$2200 for an ES-175 ASB. +/- $250.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 05-22-2018 at 05:58 PM.
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Thanks jabberwaky I agree about Norms fine .... kind of a trap that place
i found it very confusing the whole process ...but I need to hold each one and play ..see about the scale etc
L5 ces hard to find for 5-6k but I’ll check out Chicago .
im wanting a good players guitar ...not a collectors
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Don't buy anything with issues -- cracks, jackplate damage, refins, non original parts. The only vintage avoid era for Gibsons are late 60s pencil necks. If you have lots of dough and are looking for a guitar that absolutely hits the sweet spot, get a blonde or sunburst Johnny Smith.
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must agree with Jim on most of his suggestions..and yes the type of guitars you are thinking about must be played BEFORE you buy..so don't buy any on your list online!
40+ years of playing in all styles and places..have had most guitar models at one time or another and amps..my idols played super 400's and Gibson SG's..smooth jazz to hard fusion..
the thing about getting "that sound" you can play the exact model and amp settings and be far away from what you hear on the radio/recordings or even live performances .. the why of that can be a long list..I would not even recognize my playing of 20 years ago with what Im playing these days..and yes experience will change your sound and how to expand it ... from different gauge strings to things as simple as the size and material of a pick...using the tone/volume/pedal controls on the guitar/amp and the room your playing in all contribute to what you hear..and your sound will evolve in time as you develop more techniques in your playing..now I am looking at a Suhr strat style..I have shopped, played and researched for about a year on this so I am sure I want this particular guitar as it meets my wants and needs at this time..and played through a Fender Twin Reverb on the clean channel I can get some Wes/Benson flavors that I like
good luck shopping for your guitar
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Lots of great advice here. I have an L5 CES, old Guilds, Fenders and have had many others.
You could play jazz on any of them, but they all won't get you the Paul Brown sound. (exactly) Don't dismiss the less expensive guitars available now. They could be an alternative interim. I just played my 5th Epiphone ES175. Some in stores, last one on a gig!
Surprisingly good guitars. I like them a lot and would have one - I haven't bought one because:
Don't need more guitars
They are a bit heavier than what I need for comfort ( but not much)
I have a Epi Casino (61 ReIssue) Hollow, jazzy, comfortable and sounds amazing. Not expensive.
So you may find some surprises. Hey, I got a GREAT deal on a '65 Gibson Johnny Smith, wow right? I hated it. It just didn't give up the goods. So, you have to go and play a bunch, find your magical instrument. There are great ones and dogs in every batch, year, model, brand ..............
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I’m not familiar with him - I’ll have to check him out. Polytone is a go to jazz amp that many love but once I found Henriksen I stopped playing my Polytone as much except for fun at home sometimes. Now I use a Henriksen Bud (previously a Convertible) most of the time but I also love the Fender Mustang GT100. I think it represents a huge value considering the amount of sounds you get from one amp considering all of the amp models and effects built in, the high degree of customization and even a simple built in looper. If I were a beginner these days I would be super happy with that amp to explore different sounds. As a pro I still love it and although the Bud is usually the one that comes to gigs with me and I would never sell that amp, I use the GT100 every day at home and sometimes with rehearsals because there is so much to play with on the amp and lets me explore some different sounds than I could with only the Bud.
Originally Posted by Bwalsh9
That’s a tough question to answer. My L5 is a ‘70 and my 175 is an ‘05. First of all, I would never buy a new Gibson - I would buy a newer used one but not new from the factory because the prices are too high. I also like my guitars broken in already. If you buy used then you will also get your money back if you decide to sell. Originally Posted by Bwalsh9
With an L5, other than different pickups used and different neck profiles in different years the guitars are pretty consistent in terms of what you get. Older guitars have more seasoned woods of course and I love the thinner neck Gibson had during the period mine was made but the differences between 175s from different periods is more drastic. Some are more acoustic sounding, some more electric, P90 vs. humbuckers, different kinds of humbuckers (similar to the L5 as all Gibsons had different kinds of humbuckers during different periods), some with mahogany backs and sides vs. maple, different neck profiles as well etc. All of that won’t matter if you find one you like but you will get more variation over the years than with the L5.
Some are dogs as well. I have found that more with new ones that perpetually sit on the guitar store walls because no one wants them. But the good ones are great and are a sound investment.
I agree with the above comments that you might want a cheaper guitar as you explore as a beginner. It is hard to anticipate what you might want in 5 years, 10 years and so on down the line. I think a good 175 is a very safe bet through. It’s a sound that jazz guitarists all know and they are great guitars. Eastman is a great option too and the new Collings guitars (forget the model but the one around 14-1500) are amazing.
Also worth noting that a Telecaster is a great guitar for jazz. Also the high end Ibanez guitars (the made in Japan ones like the GB10, PM100 etc.) are almost universally great and the quality is on par with the best Gibsons. Good luck and welcome to the wonderful journey that makes life so much better.
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One thing I have learned from teaching for so many years - is that many students are not interested in following advice when it comes to buying guitars. Despite having guided students toward great and moderately priced instruments over the years, most are enamoured by the look and the legend of instruments rather than the reality of what the thing is for...I mean, I was much the same as a student, although I had no real guidance when it came to this. My young forays into buying vintage Gibsons were both disappointing and expensive.
What I learned is that repairs on these can be both dodgy and well disguised.
Most of us will understand the desire to buy a great guitar - the vintage archtop seems to be inexorably linked to the classic jazz players and their music, but the reality is that most of these great players could make music on any old sound box.
The real dilemma is that vintage or new, there are dodgy instruments out there - lots of them. If you are serious about learning, find a reputable teacher and seek some advice on buying an instrument. There are also a ton of reviews here - but note that most of them point out that even these days, no guitar is the same as another even when they share the same brand and model number.
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Appreciate the feedback from all of you ...
much appreciated and I’m grateful for the forum and your experiences .
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Ur on to something Jimmy
i will check out that Epi
thanks
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I haven't read all the posts, but don't buy any of them .... until you've played each of the guitars you're considering buying and the actual guitar you might be buying.
Let's say you're hot for an L5 (and who wouldn't be), one L5 from another may differ in feel of the neck, sound (variations in pick ups and winding). So if you go to Guitar Center and play an L5, like it and want to buy one, then see one on Reverb and buy it, it may not be the same animal.
Don't be in a hurry to buy a guitar just to have one. The guitars you're considering are all very expensive. Proceed carefully and save yourself buyer's remorse.
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One thing I forgot to mention, related to dodgey guitars, is that there are a lot of trusted sellers here. Keep an eye out in the for sale section. Nothing will replace playing a guitar first, particularly if you are not knowing what to expect from a guitar in terms of sound, neck profile and all of that, but I know that with some people I will certainly not get a guitar with problems, bad repairs etc. and that there is full transparency with what I am getting. Also if you are on Reverb you can look for the ones with a return policy. You might be out the hefty return shipping cost but Reverb is good to buyers in that they expect sellers to be clear about what is being sold. Also something like a Comins archtop (again, a fantastic value and wonderful instrument) I would totally trust to play wonderfully as he has high standards. I’ve also found that Japanese Ibanez guitars are also very trustworthy and have had great experiences there. That doesn’t account for liking the neck profile but at least in some cases you know you are getting a guitar that isn’t hiding some terrible top crack repair or headstock break.
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The L5 CES is a 1981. Yeah, a Norlin. You wouldn't care about that if you played it. It's a great 37 year old guitar now. So damn alive!
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The newer ES 175 Premiums look interesting and they come with Gibson pickups and a nitro finish. Older Korean models may be worth a look as well. I see them a lot locally on craigslist. Lots of good advice here. At your level I would take it slow and find out what you like. Maybe get a few lower priced examples of different types and explore that way. As mentioned, buy used with caution, this site can be a great source. Used Eastmans are great value. You may want to consider Heritage as well. Good luck and let us know what you get. Originally Posted by Bwalsh9
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I would say that the Super 400, L5 and ES 335 are all fine. Never been a fan of the ES 175 so can't say. You may find that you need both a ES 335 and a L5 (like the rest of us). A Super 400 is great too, especially if you're not a small guy with small hands.
Other than that:
- Try before you buy, new or used.
- If you buy online, make sure that you understand the return policy, and make sure that you have that in writing. Make sure that you can send it back "just because" - no questions asked.
I've bought many Gibson ES and acoustic archtops over the years. I'm skeptical that everyone advising you here can say the same.
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BWalsh is in Phoenix. So is Guitar Center. They've got a few nice Gibsons that he can test drive. That will give him the 'flavor' of a couple of quality jazz guitars to start his journey. For most of us, that journey never ends.
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Anyone have some thoughts on amps for home use ?
right now I’m looking at Henriksen the bud ... fender twin Reverb and the GB model and Princeton reissue
just want a versatile warm tone ...clear mellow sound ...home amp that I can love as in Love !
thanks for chiming in again ...you guys know ur stuff ..and I’m paying very close attention
this forum has been fantastic for me ... three days in and I’m soaking it all in .
thanks again
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The Bud is the best amp I’ve ever had. As a home amp I could understand maybe going another direction since weight and portability doesn’t play into it and that is such a huge benefit of the Bud to me so I’ll just go over the sound of the amp rather than the portability/size part. The first thing that I love about the Bud is that I just plug in and play - I don’t have to fiddle with any EQ or anything because it sounds amazing flat. The EQ is definitely also great but more for gigs since I use it in tough rooms where the sound is hard to work with. So even though at home I keep the EQ flat, it has save my butt more than once on gigs since I can cut or boost frequencies based on the room.
If you ever play bass or play with a bassist, it also works wonderfully as a bass amp. I rarely bring other amps to bass gigs now and it is totally capable in that regard. It records very well, can accept microphones, the defeatable tweeter has been useful depending on the room - I think the only down side for you might be that you are buying a lot of amp for a home amp and you might not be using all of the stuff it has. It is also super loud (capable of being soft of course) and at home you don’t need the volume, might not seem a second channel, the ability to have mics input, the portability isn’t a huge concern if it stays at home etc. so you could save some money by getting a cheaper amp that perhaps offers less than the Bud but still sounds good. I will never need another amp though - the only other amp I use regularly, at home mostly, is the Fender Mustang GT 100 because I really love the sounds I can get out of it.
Any time someone brings up the Bud I have no problem recommending it and if money isn’t an object then it doesn’t matter so much if you don’t need everything the amp offers since the bottom line is that it sounds great and doesn’t require any fiddling around with knobs or settings to get a great sound.
Regarding the tube amps, keep in mind that often they sound best when you push them so playing at soft home volumes you often won’t get the best possible sound out of them. That said I loved my old Twin. It was just so big and heavy that I had to sell it. That’s another amp that will put out a ton of volume so might not be needed for home but at least you wouldn’t have to move it and deal with the weight!
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Thank you Rio
yes it seems the Bud may be it for me
based on reviews like you just gave ...
I don’t think it’s that expensive 1100$ And you get a full sound
for home ... I listened to Jim Sollaway play thru it on.
You tube ... the sound is remarkable and that guy sure can play !!
thanks again Rio
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I have a Fender M-80 Chorus twin that I bought new around 1992, basically the transistorized version of a Twin Reverb, so it doesn't make the lights dim in the neighborhood when you turn it on and doesn't generate a million joules of heat. Nice, light, quiet, good for playing in the house or gigging. Originally Posted by Bwalsh9
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Henriksens are great -- I have a 110ER for the occasional louder gig -- but I prefer a tube amp for playing at home.
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If you decide you want to go tube, and especially Fender Tube, stay away from the big amps. They're great for large performance venues but they're useless in a home or small performance setting. You can never get the power tubes working hard enough to get any of the really cool tones they have to offer. I had a Twin for two or three years and ot never once got out of my garage. Finally my wife insisted on my "selling the pony in the garage" to make some space. Princeton Reverb's and their many clones are lovely amps. Originally Posted by Bwalsh9
Solid state, the Bud or really any of the Henriksens are very nice and so far my experience with the DV Mark amps (I have a Micro 50 head with a Buscarino cabinet) has been terrific. I really love everything about this amp and I'm planning on adding a DV Mark Little Jazz in August when we get back to Mexico.
And thanks for the comments about my playing. I describe myself as a one trick pony but at least it's a pretty good trick.
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I use an Electro Harmonix Headphone Amp for quiet practice. You have to use a guitar chord so it's not as handy as the Vox but it's got a really nice flat, neutral tone.
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Check out the Henriksen Blu. It is supposedly the same sound as the Bud and same size but lower weight, only 1 channel and minus some things but cheaper and with a Bluetooth connection. Originally Posted by Bwalsh9
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Fender GB is fine for my home. So is my Rivera Jazz Suprema.
They both work fine.
For solid state why not look into Benedetto? Made by Henriksen with Bob's preferences, if I recall. (and more attractive, sorry Henriksen).
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Has anyone played or had a Supro Amulet ?
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